End of tether with stumbling horse

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charmaine

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My gelding constantly stumbles for no apparent reason, often going onto his knees. I had the vet out last week and he could find nothing clinically wrong other than his heels were a bit high. He said x-rays would be prohibitively expensive as he would have to take so many different views of both legs because he wouldn't know where to start. I have a very good remedial farrier who has just shod him according to the vet's instructions and I was hoping this would do the trick but no change at all when ridden.

I spent an hour watching him on the lunge today and I noticed that he only does it when walking slowly, very rarely when pushed to walk faster and never at trot or canter. I am beginning to wonder if it is just laziness as he is a lazy horse but the trips are so constant when walking him that I just can't believe laziness can cause a horse to do this and particularly not to fall onto his knees.

Does anyone have any ideas on this or had any experience of a horse doing this because I don't know where to go from here with him. It feels dangerous to continue to ride him with the risk of him going down.
 
My old gelding did this, years ago now.

It turned out he had severe arthritis in both hocks [at the age of 7]

Please consider the xrays, maybe?

He's not doing it deliberately, poor horse

Leo died 2 years later at the age of 9 - such a waste
 
To me it does just sound like laziness, so I guess the answer would be to keep him nice and forward in walk if that when he trips most. But I am just guessing as I know nuffin :p
 
I don't think a horse ending up on its knees on a regular basis is down to laziness :confused: :(

I'd want the front legs x-rayed asap. A horse going down on it's knees can be the end of it. :(
 
Did the vet lunge your horse in trot on hard ground in a circle?

My horse used to be VERY trippy. Her feet looked great but when she went for a work up she was trotting lame in a circle on both reins. Quite lame in fact. Foot was nerve blocked, she came pretty much sound instantly. Vet x-rayed foot, fully expecting it to be navicular or coffin joint arthritis. However, all it showed was a foot way out of balance.

The vet said you would never have matches her x-rays with her feet if you hadn't know you'd taken them.

She was re-shod removing a heck of a lot of toe. Her toes were also rolled quite markedly and she no longer trips like that now. She trots sound in a tight circle on concrete too.

I wouldn't rule out the x-rays but the vet should be considering nerve blocking, starting at the foot, to work out what area is causing the pain. This way they can target the area that needs further investigation with x-rays.
 
Stumbling can be indicative of arthritic changes so worth checking out, but I've also had horses that are young and unbalanced prone to it too.

I'd echo riding him forwards and building up balance and suppleness, making sure he carries himself properly.

The other thing I found with one horse was that she stopped stumbling when having her shoes removed, and now works happily without them.

Using knee boots and wearing a bp might be sensible until you get to the bottom of it though.
 
my first thought would also be arthritic changes. Insurance will cover that including x rays etc

My horse is terrible to travel but my vet thinks arthritis is his hocks so isntead of putting him through the strain of travel and x rays we are going ahead with treatment to see if theres any improvement.

Arthritis can manifest itself in strange ways, my horse cannot rein back but he can walk and canter fine, would deffinately investigate if it were me, and probably get another vet
 
Falling on their knees doesn't sound like laziness.
Could be early navicular as horses with this often trip or any of the arthritic things
IMHO it needs investigating could you get a second opinion
 
Summerleft said:
Arthritis can manifest itself in strange ways, my horse cannot rein back but he can walk and canter fine, would deffinately investigate if it were me, and probably get another vet
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Absolutely! My just turned 9 year old is a write off after we discovered such bad arthritic changes in her hind fetlock last summer, :( but every day, without fail, she is still larking around in the field, cantering about, kicking her heels up etc. It's so sad as she loved her work :( But it's great that she feels so well in herself, despite her having to take such early retirement :)
 
My vet has watched him on the lunge in all paces and says he is not lame at all. He is the best vet in my area, Trading Standards actually use him for all their court cases. I do not have any insurance for vet's fees and just cannot afford the cost of all the x-raying that would be involved. Some of you have mentioned arthritic changes, wouldn't that make him lame though?
 
Sounds like arthritis somewhere or navicular. Possibly a cheapish way to see if it's pain without the nerve blocks etc, is a bute trial? If the horse doesn't trip when on bute, then you know it's a pain issue rather than schooling etc. The beginnings of navicular/arthritis often only show as tripping.
 
charmaine said:
My vet has watched him on the lunge in all paces and says he is not lame at all. He is the best vet in my area, Trading Standards actually use him for all their court cases. I do not have any insurance for vet's fees and just cannot afford the cost of all the x-raying that would be involved. Some of you have mentioned arthritic changes, wouldn't that make him lame though?
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Not necessarily, especially if the changes are bilateral. What breed/type is he and how old?
 
I don't know if I replied to you before or it was someone else. My horse started tripping at 4and it got gradually worse, until he was falling. Over a couple of years I had everyone out - vet, who could see nothing wrong, at least 2 physios, back people, changed farrier, got a new saddle, did Bowen, Shiatsu. It all helped a bit. One chiro said to rest and then start work again and he would be fine. After a few weeks at walk the first time I schooled him down he went and I decided if he did it again I would never ride him again as it was a good way to break my neck. It was affecting my riding and it wasn't much fun.

Then I by chance heard about another McTimoney Chiropractor. I remember it clearly as it was my birthday and a Saturday. As he walked down the yard to my horse who was tied up outside the stable he said "I can't fix all this in one session." Remember he had already seen umpteen "experts."

This chap came 3 times in quick succession and completely altered the way my horse was standing. Since that initial treatment I could throw out the knee boots and I haven't really had any trouble since. However,my horse is lazy and clumsy generally. The theory was that body tension and stiffness in his back was preventing his stride coming "through" correctly. That was several years ago now.

I have recently also used a veterinary physiotherapist who has worked on his shoulders, and given me some exercises to do and that has improved his flat work.

I also rode him without shoes for a while and it was interesting to see how his feet altered to support the body above and what is his natural break over point. He has shoes on again at the moment, but I have them off during the winter.

I'm not saying that your horse has the same problems, it is so hard to get to the bottom of things like this. But I think my tale might be of interest, and give you hope that there is an answer out there somewhere.
 
I am sorry but if he were mine I would want to get to the bottom of it. Horses don't go down on their knees regularly because they are lazy. I would imagine there is an underlying cause (spavin, navicular, ringbone, sidebone, heart problems - all can cause tripping and stumbling - just like us when an ankle gives way unexpectedly for example).

You could start by trying him on bute to see if that makes a difference, but I would just go with the xrays - you may be lucky and find something with basic xrays of the front feet - I am assuming your vet has flexion tested him as that would be a sensible initial first step (and cheap) and would give you an idea of whether or not it might be a hock problem.

I'm not going to have a go at you about insurance - I don't insure any of mine for vet's fees - but I have to ask how you would pay for some mega unexpected form of treatment for him if you are struggling to stump up for a few xrays at this point?:confused:

Good luck with him and I hope you find out what the problem is :)
 
Sadly unless you have the xrays done or even nerve blocks to determine if there is a problem, you may never find the cause. Im only saying this as a horse I used to have years ago started tripping. She was xrayed and it turned out to be Navicular. She did point alternate toes when stood, struggled slightly downhill and seemed to 'motorbike' on corners. All things I didnt notice at the time but when looking back the symptoms were staring me in the face.
On a better note, a past friend of mine used to hack out on a long rein and her horse tripped and fell onto her knees, the cause of this was not any illness but the fact she was dragging herself along and on her forehand. She was much better when woke up and ridden on the bit, working from behind.
Good luck with your horse, I hope you get to the bottom of it.
 
I am interested in this because I have a horse who is prone to tripping as well - so think I can understand where you are coming from.

We have made lots of progress, I think mine trips because he is young, unbalanced and easily distracted, so have been working on trying to get him working properly and concentrate. Most of the time I keep sessions quite short and intense (with short breaks) to get him into the idea that as soon as I sit on him his job is to WORK. We don't do too much 'chilling out' stuff!

The only other thing I can add is your balance. If the horse is finding it difficult to balance it is imperative that you have confidence in your balance as a tripping horse can quickly made you ride quite defensively and tentatively (very short reins, not letting him reach down and work through his back, so reinforcing the problem?).
 
My conscience wants me to add - please do think about not riding him in the meantime, whilst you are deciding/investigating

Leo tripped so badly he came down on top of me one day, rotational falls REALLY hurt, 1 fractured pelvis and several walloped ribs...

Poor sod was more frightened than me it was a few days later he went to newmarket and was diagnosed

I don't want to frighten you, I just don't want you to get hurt by underestimating what this might mean
 
Also one thing struck me was that the vet lunged the horse at all paces, but he didn't see him being ridden. There may be some restriction from the saddle.

It is true that horses don't normally come down on their knees, a horse will do anything to remain on its feet. Mine had suffered from a very bad attack of ringworm, and that had made him under the weather, so I think he wasn't really strong enough to save himself when he tripped and lost balance to start with.
 
My Lena spent a year with no-one solving her tripping. she tripped but like your horse was not lame. We eventually had nerve blocks and front and rear xrays. She had navicular. She had thousands of £ spent (insurance) on her. Nothing worked. Its almost 2 years since her diagnosis, she rairly trips, but I dont ride her or drive her. Her medication is 30g of tumeric poweder in her food + cortavet ha.
Feel free to message me for more info.
 
Rowreach said:
I am sorry but if he were mine I would want to get to the bottom of it. Horses don't go down on their knees regularly because they are lazy. I would imagine there is an underlying cause (spavin, navicular, ringbone, sidebone, heart problems - all can cause tripping and stumbling - just like us when an ankle gives way unexpectedly for example).

You could start by trying him on bute to see if that makes a difference, but I would just go with the xrays - you may be lucky and find something with basic xrays of the front feet - I am assuming your vet has flexion tested him as that would be a sensible initial first step (and cheap) and would give you an idea of whether or not it might be a hock problem.
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How wonderful life must be for you to have so much money.

I agree wih the bute trial potentially as it should highlight lameness or laziness?

Has he EVER tripped in any pace other than a slow walk?

xxx
 
Might be totally off the mark but does he wear rubber OR boots?

I ask because my old gelding a few weeks ago started tripping badly on the tracks which ended up the last time with him on his knees and me on the floor. He hadn't been doing it previously (back, saddle, teeth regularly checked) and I remembered he had gone onto his knees the summer before a few times on the tracks. In the winter I don't put OR boots on him with the muddy ground but as soon as the ground dried up on they go. I no longer use OR boots when I ride him and have not had a problem with him tripping onto his knees since.

If not then ditto all previous posters about having the vet check him out.
 
Did the vet do flexion tests? Because if its arthritis they would show it up pretty much instantly in most cases and they dont cost more to do as involve no drugs etc. That is how the vet first knew where to xray a horse at home when he started tripping :)
 
charmaine said:
My gelding constantly stumbles for no apparent reason, often going onto his knees. I had the vet out last week and he could find nothing clinically wrong other than his heels were a bit high. He said x-rays would be prohibitively expensive as he would have to take so many different views of both legs because he wouldn't know where to start. I have a very good remedial farrier who has just shod him according to the vet's instructions and I was hoping this would do the trick but no change at all when ridden.

I spent an hour watching him on the lunge today and I noticed that he only does it when walking slowly, very rarely when pushed to walk faster and never at trot or canter. I am beginning to wonder if it is just laziness as he is a lazy horse but the trips are so constant when walking him that I just can't believe laziness can cause a horse to do this and particularly not to fall onto his knees.

Does anyone have any ideas on this or had any experience of a horse doing this because I don't know where to go from here with him. It feels dangerous to continue to ride him with the risk of him going down.
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how old is your horse, my one does it alot but i ride him on grass which is when he trips, the grass is not flat so its understandable, also he is only 5 so not all that balenced, Connor my old horse did it when i first got him as well, but when he got more balenced he stopped doing it, it was only when he was so young and unschoold
hope it helps
 
Not necessarily. My old horse fell to his knees just once, and then went right over onto his side, with me on him. It was then we found he had a significant back problem, going back a long time. And we'd thought he bucked for fun...My current old chappie stumbles all the time (35yo, no longer ridden) but is never lame.
 
You say that this only occurs when ridden? Soooo, diagnostically, I personally would suspect (initially) saddle/pain issues and/or something happening with his back. I know you don't want to spend any more money, but, hate to say this hun, you're gonna need to know what's happening with your horse, coz if you don't know what's going on now, then it might well cost you a lot more up the road if you do nothing or do the wrong thing. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but you've not got vets costs on your insurance, and you're in the situation of not being able to afford X-rays, but if he gets markedly worse at some future point you might be looking at the PTS option. Sorry to be so harsh about it and I do appreciate its easy to be wise in retrospect.
 
Not sure if anyone else has suggested it. What type of shoe you are using - have you tried natural balance shoes? My gelding tripped a lot, I changed farrier and he found bruising all around his toe area. Put him in NB shoes and he hasn't had a problem since. Bringing the breakover point back really seemed to help him.
 
charmaine said:
My vet has watched him on the lunge in all paces and says he is not lame at all. He is the best vet in my area, Trading Standards actually use him for all their court cases. I do not have any insurance for vet's fees and just cannot afford the cost of all the x-raying that would be involved. Some of you have mentioned arthritic changes, wouldn't that make him lame though?
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Not necessarily. Pidge has had hock spavin twice in same hock and was showing signs before but not lame. He couldn't for example do any lateral work but after being treated and coming right he could. X-rays are the way to go I'm afraid despite the cost. Can you not get them to do the x-rays of his hind legs first to see if anything shows before doing them on the front legs?
 
Hello,

I ditto all the above, It is unlikely that the horse is stumbling due to laziness, so it is really important that you find the cause sooner rather than later.

It could be a number of things but an experienced vet should be able to rule out some of these with examination as there may be other symptoms.

It could be a problem in the hoof such as Navicular, arthiritis or just simply the shape or foot balance of the hoof.

It coud be a problem in the legs such as arthiritis.

It could be a secondary symptom from a back problem.

Or as my horse had, it could be something like spinal cord compression in the neck (cervical vertebrae) which causes stumbling as the horse lacks co ordination of its feet.

Or it could be a neurological problem.

Definately investigate it further, and if he is going down on his knees I would re-consider riding him.

Good luck with finding the cause, Please keep us updated on how he goes.
 
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