epilepsy in dogs.

[itsme123]

Has anyone here any experiences with it?? we've not had a diagnosis, but seems pretty likely that Jack has it.

I've tried looking on the net but there seems to be so many different types? It's mind boggling

My vet suggested that it's more commo in JRT's? Pups only 9 months old though??

what kind of treatment is available? and most importantly, do these treatments allow the dog a good quality of life??

any experiences, thoughts or links to good websites would be MUCH appreciated. Apologies if i don't reply right away as I'm a bit busy this evening, but will be popping on when I can x

 

[kirstyhen]

My old boss's dog had Epilepsy, he is a JRT. They discovered his seemed to be linked to his eating patterns and him getting over-excited, he was also fed Bakers at the time, which seemed to be a big trigger factor.
He was put onto a high dosage of medication to control his fits, however by managing his feeding times/walking times/feed type they have got him down to 1 tablet every 12 hours. He is fed more often than the average dog, and about the same time as they eat, to stop him getting excited at the anticipation of food, he has quite a routined life as I think stress can set him off, but they can go out and leave him with no problems.
He very occasionally has fits, but he is a very happy, merry dog, that manages to get into lots of mischief (I had to dig him out a badger sett!) without any problems.

 

[itsme123]

Jack's happen at night, and seemingly when hes stressed (ie when the GSD barked at him). And possibly this is whats been happening when he's alone too. He loses control of his bladder too

 

[3BayGeldings]

Mine has it. She isn't on medication as she only fits about once every couple of months. They aren't nice to witness at all but the vet says they don't actually harm or hurt her

Hers came about after she got hit by a car

 

[CorvusCorax]

My friend's Old English has it, was diagnosed when he was pretty young and it is managed very well by medication.

 

[tweedette]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone here any experiences with it?? we've not had a diagnosis, but seems pretty likely that Jack has it.

I've tried looking on the net but there seems to be so many different types? It's mind boggling

My vet suggested that it's more commo in JRT's? Pups only 9 months old though??

what kind of treatment is available? and most importantly, do these treatments allow the dog a good quality of life??

any experiences, thoughts or links to good websites would be MUCH appreciated. Apologies if i don't reply right away as I'm a bit busy this evening, but will be popping on when I can x

[/ QUOTE ]

In a nutshell the dog doesnt really have a life, well I lie, my dog was fine, I trawled the internet for information used some, disregarded others, got the timing perfect with the dog, or at least the oncoming signs of a small seizure, I lost the dog I knew on her first grand mal, she lost control of everything that night, and with each grand mal she left us even more, it was a living hell for us and her and although I'm a great believer in where there is life there is hope, in this case, I wish we had put her to sleep after her first grand mal, I think if your pup gets to that stage its time to act, but if he only ever gets small seizures when on medication why not?, All the very best with your pup.

 

[nessie1288]

I have a 9 year old pug who was diagnosed about 3 years ago with primary epilepsy. This was brought well under control with medication. Unfortunately this upset his thyroid so he is on pills for that too. We have a couple of bloood tests a year and pills twice a day and he is brill. Only a couple of fits a year. you would never know that there was anything wrong with him unless you did if that makes sense!

 

[itsme123]

everyone who knows him has commented that he's not 'him' nymore, which is one of the hardest thing. THE hardest thing is seeing him afterwards, how scared, disorientated and agressive he is (agressive out of fear). He's normally such a gentle dog.
To see him you'd think someone had just kicked the living dayights out of him, he can't walk, lays rasping, we think these fits are the reason being his tongue having the end missing

... its devastating to see.
I'm a believer that if an animal can't have quality of life... well...

and that's already been discussed. I'm worried... I don't want him to have to endure months of tests (i don't know how long it'll all take) and go through different medicines etc, I just don't think I can put him through that. It's not fair on him, because he;s just constantly stressed now, and you can tell, it;s always on his mind. He's so quiet.

JH. That's interesting, that it came on after trauma. Jack was attacked by another dog in the park last week, and he's had a definate increase in these episodes this week. So i wonder if the stress (rather than injury, as he wasnt really hurt, just badly shaken) has made it worse?

CC: that's good to know. There seems to be an array of medication available, it's just the tests that worry me. the internet lists LOADS of tests and it's just frightening. He doesnt cope well with being without me (nor me without him

).

Judastree: thanks for that

how long did it take to diagnose?? My vets just said 'in for tests' but they're talking about testing for other stuff to, ie putting a camera down his throat, blood tests, scans and x rays??
I'm hoping that some pills and a change of diet / routine will work for Jack x

 

[nessie1288]

I think we just had blood tests, possibly over a couple of weeks. Bogle was never admitted overnight, def no camera. In fact the thyroid was more difficult to diagnose. To be fair he has always seemed himself though.
I wish you the best of luck.

 

[CAYLA]

Epilepsy can be controlled very effectivly by correct monitering and todays meds and frequent liason and monitering via your vet, u obs need to start and see where u go from there, if the time comes where meds cannot control them then that is obs the time to prioritise quality of life, epilepsy is common in j.r.t's (I agree though he is very young) , but in general after the initial fit, of which snapping, urinating and disorientation can all be common factors, they usually after a good sleep recover pretty quickly. you can obs tell by monitoring (your vets will ask you to do this i.e time coming in and out of a fit, and the times inbetween fits, then your vets can decide strengths and intervals of meds, at this age I would simply not look past getting him on some meds at the moment and talking with the vet and taking it from there.
I have through work and rescue seen dogs begin to fit after trauma, one was a cocker after an Rta and one was a colli that was mistreated by the owner(physically) it slowly became withdrawn and almost like it was having panic attacks, it began to fit, however when we took it into rescue the fits eventually ceased after a while (so there is hope) I would think it had more to do with the initial poss getting his head caught in the baby gate(sorry if im thinking of wrong post)

rather than the dog attack, the injury u described from that first incident sounded horrible and I could imagine would traumatise him enough to effect him neurologically/cause some nerve orbrain damage, the way you described him covered in blood and the state he was in (again apologise if that was not you) I can remember a pot but not who it was

Your vets will there for support ad give u pointers on how to deal with a fit when it comes on e.g. lights down, noise down, talk but dont touch unless he is close to something he can hurt himself on, talk to him...... and what to look for when one is coming on e.g panting, running as if in a panick when nothing is there, circling, in-co-ordination and try to keep him as stress free as poss but obs allow him some enjoyment.
How many fits have you seen him have?

 

[itsme123]

Hi Cala,

I've seen him have three what i'd describe as 'episodes'. Not fitting in a traditional sense, he doesnt start fitting (jerking) violently, it's more violent shakes. He zones out, starts grunting and breathing loudly, panting (but with his jaw clenched) and this can last for about half an hour. At the vets his head was jerking, but when he had the episodes here he just went rigid all over. The last one was like the first except he was sitting in his armchair and the noise started then he made a groaning noise. he was sitting up still and next thing he'd lost control of his bladder and pooed. His head was up (looking at ceiling) and I called his name and it was like I wasnt here. Afterwards he just sits and shakes loads and breathes heavily for ages. If you try and touch him during one of these episodes he tries to bite you

He had his last one yesterday afternoon, and was a bit wobbly right up until bedtime, but this morning - almost back to his usual self. Playful, tail wagging, has been for a wee normally, and eaten all fine. I've noticed that althouh he's a fussy eater he eats loads after these episodes.

you're riht in thinking... it WAS Jack who got his head stuck in the stairgate, and yes, perhaps this caused some trauma.....
he's due back at the vets this morning, so will have a chat with them and ask lots more questions.

We're moving into our permanent house tomorrow, so Im worried this might make his anxiety worse. he's spent loads of time at the new house, and was left there for half an hour (building up) with no panic to be aware of (I came back and was greeted with a waggy tail... though i'd left him to have free run of the whole house so he probably spent the whole time rifling through his box of toys). I think I might ask the vet about some kind of relaxant, like one of those plug ins or some bach rescue remedy? I'll be back on later (after school and vet run)

 

[Patches]

Jasper used to have pre-epileptic seizures (so the vet described them).

He would stand with legs splayed out and arc his head from side to side, whilst crying. We called them his "Stevie Wonder" impression. He only had them two or three times a year and as he didn't lose consciousness or bladder control the vets decided not to medicate him.

His started after a reaction to a GA when he had to have some of his tail removed at the age of 2, due to "wagtail".

What you describe almost sounds like Jasper when he was having his strokes. Poor Jack. :-(

 

[chaps89]

Poppy dog was diagnosed with epilepsy just after her 2nd birthday (coming up to her 7th birthday next year)

Fits are not fun to witness and have got far worse as time goes on- she goes wooden then shakes, drools alot, sometimes looses bladder/bowel control and is very out of sorts afterwards.
Every fit she has causes brain scarring (or so the vet told us) so she has yearly MRI's, and she is currently on 19 tablets a day to try and control it.
Some dogs get by with just 1 type of tablet, 2 times a day, certainly this is what she was on initially, but as time has gone on she's got worse and her medication has been upped. She has at times been referred to the National Animal Health Trust in Newmarket too.
Luckily, she was insured and now Petplan pay for all the prescriptions and treatments etc.
She was previously a very well behaved dog (for a dalmatian anyway) but now can be clingy, and crazy and eats anything/everything, you can tell if she has a fit coming on as she becomes very subdued.
She also has spondolosis (sp) now, whether this is a result of the epilepsy or not I'm not sure (she's my parents dog really) which meant physio and no off the lead runs for a while, but back to normal now, she's just not allowed to over-do it.
She still has a good quality of life, goes out for walks etc, but the fact is she is likely to not last as long as she otherwise would have.

Hopefully (and from the sounds of previous posts you do) have a good vet who can help you with this.

 

[tweedette]

Nell started her 'hics' after a trauma, the 'hics' I could deal with , the grand mals we couldnt , hence she was pts for her benefit and our sanity, we love our dogs but life dedicated to watching our beloved dog cope with life after a seizure is something I personally wouldnt wish on anyone or anything.

 

[itsme123]

Thankyou so much for this guys. It's been interesting to read, inbetween vets visits and everything else I'm doing right now.

Now I really have a problem, worse than wether the vets can 'fix' him or not... not often I pour my heart out but I'm so confused and upset. I'm meant to be in an important meeting right now, but, my head's everywhere.

We came back from the vets yesterday, left pup here, went and collected kids, met OH out of work, and came back here.

Pup had wee'd, lots. He;d cocked his leg up the wall and immediately when I walked in he had that 'I done a bad thing mum' look on his face. I just let him out and set about cleaning up. OH wasnt too happy but just chuntered about it and then went for a shower.
Pup has a bed in the lounge, and after I'd taken him out for a wee, I got him to lay on it whilst I made dinner. OH sat down, on the floor, next to pup and hadnt even touched him when pup started barking at him and growling. I went over, OH walked away, and pup did it to me too. OH, already in a bad mood, said loudly, "Oh get in your bed!" Pup scooted off past one of the kids, snapped at them then went to his crate in the other room. OH and i argued, as i said he shouldnt have shouted at him, nor sent him to his crate as punishment (OH doesn't 'get' dogs, I've ben trying to teach him, ut he was bitten by a rottie as a kid and thinks they're all evil) And besides, perhaps pup was feeling a bit off colour again?
I went through to pup, fed him by his crate and he came out and ate. OH came through, sat by him and said "I'm sorry mate" then went to stroke him. Pup bit him, quite badly. All snarling growling and alot of blood.

We argued all night

me saying he's not behaving properly towards him, ie sending him to his crate when he's done wrong, and him being OTT with him (seriously, at times he so keen to be 'mates' with him, he's in the poor dog's face all the time, constantly walking him, trying to get him to play ball, and TBH half the time the poor dog just wants to sleep).

OH argued he was TRYING to get the dog to like him (but going wrong way about it in my opinion). But is now saying this illness, whatever's wrong, is making him agressive and hes NOT prepared to put up with it.

We ended the argument by him saying he PROMISED to lay off a bit and to understand the dog's not well. Coolio... but it's HIS opinion that it's not fair or just to keep the dog whilst he's this poorly.

So, this morning, all good. He doesnt fuss the dog, just leaves the dog to come to HIM. Which dog does (fair enough, dog only went to him because he had his doggy advent calendar LOL). But it's a start. His hand is sore, but he refuses to go hospital. His lookout.

So later on I went to see him at work, as per usual, where all his family work. The atmosphere like ice. They don't have dogs. I was basically told to get rid of the dog.... because what if it does to one of the kids what it did to OH??

I came away shaking with anger. What am i meant to do? the vets can only get the tests done as quick as they can get them done, and even I'm unsure about the future. I mean, I can't bear to see him have worse episodes than he's been having, and spoke to the vet about that yesterday. We could have another 15 years of this, and IMO if it's not treatable to the extent of him having a good quality of life (ie being able to be a normal DOG) I'll do the right thing by him and stop the misery. As much as it breaks my heart I'll do whats best for the dog.

But i don't need this pressure. They're now saying he's vicious, and I should have him PTS!!!

Each time I take him to the vets I get nasty comments about the cost, even though I pay for ALL my animals keep myself, out of my own hard earned money.

He is NOT vicious. He's only bitten me once (he was having an episode) and hasnt bitten one of the kids. But how do i convince anyone of this when he's mauled my OH's hand for all to see??

I just feel I'm fighting a losing battle. they all say I'm treating him like a child and I should have him PTS and put out of his misery before he attacks one of the kids. OH was bitten badly by a rottie when he was a kid, hence their dislike of dogs, and him being wary.

I can't give up on the dog not until I KNOW what's wrong with him. But now it's a case of him or my family. I mean, what if I tell them to bog off, split up with him (because he's being an ar$e about this and not allowing me to make a decision by myself once i have the full facts) and then the dog does bite one of the kids?? what if they all say 'I told you so' and I get into lots of trouble?


I don't know what to do. I seriously don't. Pup is laid with me now, quiet and happy.... I can't lose him

BTW vets did bloods yesterday and awaiting test results today

if you got through this you deserve a medal

 

[CAYLA]

I think your OH need to be a little more patient with the little fella considering what he has been through at such at young age

with the 2 traumas which sounded horrendous........Im afraid if that was my OH he would have been knocked the f!ck out to put it bluntly (I have very little patients and a bad temper) esp when it comes to my dogs, the weeing in the house sounds normal for a young dog his age esp a j.r.t, they are notoriously hard to toilet train, I think your pup is picking up some very bad vibes from your OH and it's not doing him any good given his current medical status.

I think u maybe need to take your OH along to the vets maybe he wit have a little more sympathy then, as far as the family, well.........mine o either side know not to say a word to me about basically anything....I would take a head clean off with my tongue alone

Good luck re the tests.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Oh no, what a nightmare.

I'll not lie to you, I would be wary of having a dog which snapped (at anyone) in the house with kids.

However Jack has been through so much already, your OH doesn't seem to be helping matters, don't give up on him and like Cayla says, all the best with the tests x

Please also remember to tell your OH, as I have said before, his sheer size and the way he is using his voice will be very intimidating for a small, young and stressy dog.

 

[tweedette]

The problem we faced with ours was that inbetween hics, and more especially after grand mals, where the dog just totally looses control, plus during which you could and can get bitten, is the exertion it takes for a dog to have a mal and the energy it takes must be huge, this recovery is when? do we know when a dogs come round properly, do we know if the dog is in pain enywhere after it does?, so I think you did the right thing Charlie, both from your own families saninty and safety and for the dogs benefit, sometimes you have to hearden your heart, that takes courage.

 

[maxweg]

Hi
just posted something on people giving advice! this isnt advice just my experiance of epilepsey in dogs.

20 yrs ago we had a Border collie who started having seizures at around 10 mths, unfortunatley it has been shown that in some lines epilepsey is hereditory which hers was.sadly they became almost daily so we made the hard desision to have her PTS. unfortunatley medication didnt help and she had no quality of life.

on a possitive note that was 20 yrs ago! and things have moved on. border collie breeders are now not using dogs with this in the lines so it is fairly unusual in KC registered lines however it is still around in some sheepdog breeding (working/farm dogs)


my friends sheepdog (working lines) has epilepsy and she has found that feeding raw liver seems to have a very positive effect on him although I am not sure where the medical evidence is on this one, but his fits have now been reduced to one every few months. which is managable

hope you found this helpful but speak to your vet

good luck