EPSM or PSSM info please

I have an EPSM horse http://danceswithgrace.blogspot.com

Good place to start is http://www.ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/epsm_summary.htm and this site also carries advice on how to test and manage.

Dr Kellon another specialist for EPSM also participates in a Yahoo group which has some useful information. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/EPSM/join

Each EPSM horse is different but the results when you get their management right are amazing and very rewarding.

I found a lot of feed companies were quite willing to disregard the science of EPSM and were happy to try and sell me products that were completely unsuitable for my horse.

For my own/Grace's circumstances we use the low sugar/starch high oil, high vit e diet with exercise and this works well most of the time. I have considered Alcar and might try that if the oil becomes a problem.

Be aware that many vets lack experience of how to treat/manage/diagnose EPSM so you will have to research this thoroughly rather than relying on others.
 
The acronyms are not truly interchangeable but the variety used seems in part to be related to the preferences of different laboratories as well as to the criteria used to diagnose polysaccharide storage myopathy.

Various draft breeds of horses are reported to have PSSM when analysis-sensitive glycogen is used as a diagnostic criterion for PSSM. However, PSSM can also be dagnosed using amylase-resistant abnormal-polysaccharide as a diagnostic criteria and the Quarter horse is most affected.

There is also recurrent exertional rhabdomyolysis (RER) which is often confused with PSSM but there is rarely an accumulation of abnormal polysaccharide which is the hallmark of PSSM.

In essense, the diagnosis depends on the test used, the experience of the vet when reading the results and the skewing of results with statistical analysis. We see very few cases of true PSSM or EPSSM but we do see a lot of misdiagnosis.

It also seems to be the new 'fashion' for vets to test for and owners to worry about. Many of the 'symptoms' the horse presents with are down to poor management and the vet profiting on the worries of the owner.

And yes, before everyone jumps down my throat, there are geunuine cases out there of course (we have some here) but they are much rarer than generally thought and confusion reigns due to the variety of diagnostics available and the acronyms that are attached to the results.
 
Thank you both for your help. I have a miniature horse stallion of 12 years old that has been having problems for over a year now. I live in Italy and I am having a very hard time finding a competent vet. I have had all types of blood tests done but no one is capable of reading the results here.
He lives in at night and out during the day.
His symptoms are as follows.
He has lost all his top line and his neck has flopped over
he is grumpy and unwilling to play with his sons ( before they would play all day)
he has a bloated belly
his blood tests show muscle problems
this morning his hind legs were very stiff but after 5 minutes he was normal.
he suffered from ulcers at xmas but after a treatment of Gastro guard he is better.
At first I thought it might be Cushings but tests said no. I am at my wits end and I just want to help him back to his healthy happy self.
Thanks for any help you can give
renee
 
He doesn't sound typical for PSSM nor EPSM. When was he last wormed and with what? Is he on medication, has he been on medication, for what and for how long? when did the symptoms first present and how? Are the mares he covers always tested for disease prior to covering?
There are so many possiblilites. Could be viral. Could be physical - if he has damaged his back that could account for loss of musculature and generally grumpy behaviour due to discomfort.
 
They are all wormed regularly, his last worming was 2 weeks ago with Strongid-P
All the girls are tested and he only covers my mares.
He is not on medication and he has only had Gastro guard for his ulcers in the last 5 years.
He started to get ill the summer of 2010, his top line disappeared and he lost a lot of weight. Nothing changed in his diet and the other 7 horses are fine.
The vets have no idea what is wrong and can't really see anything but I know him well and can see how down hill he has gone. He was gorgeous before but now he looks awful. He is depressed and weak. When I bring him in at night he is happy and tries to rush, if I pull him back he can't seem to block his neck and he turns his head in, it is hard to explain, sorry.
 
I know equine physios are like hen's teeth here in France and I am imagine Italy is also without many practioners but I would suggest the next step would be to get a physio or equine body worker to have a look at him. His being out of alignment somewhere may be the simple answer to his troubles and may also explain raised enzyme levels (if that is what the test results are showing).
Good luck!
 
I have been reading this thread with interest.

Classicalfan and LucyPriory, what are your personal experiences of a horse that has been diagnosed?

I have read some of the information on the links you posted earlier and found the link to the Rural Heritage website very interesting, especially as it is describing symptoms my WB TB Arab cross is displaying.
 
My last horse was diagnosed with EPSM by a muscle biopsy (the ONLY way to do so)
He had problems cantering to start with, then seemed lethargic. Hopping in trot and canter
Eventually lost weight and topline that took months and months to get back once on the correct diet
 
Hi, my horse been diagnosed with Azoutoria and PSSM he had to have several blood tests and muscle biopsys, I have to monitor him closely with correct feed and management he lives a completely normal happy life but key to this is your management.

I feed a high fibre, high oil diet and he has a supplement of D-Ty I have tried several different feeds and supplements which havent been right for him but finally I have found a diet that works.

If you think your horse does have EPSM or PSSM then they do need a muscle biospy to claify and if they have you will just need to work with it I'm sure it will work out for you in the end :)
 
soulfull said:
My last horse was diagnosed with EPSM by a muscle biopsy (the ONLY way to do so)
Click to expand...

Certain types can be identified through DNA testing now.

We have an EPSMer on our yard who we've been managing for almost 10 years now.

There are so many variants that it is very much about finding what works for your horse/pony. With him he is more sensitive to starch levels and needs less oil in the diet if they are controlled. It can be managed successfully, he is a Fell pony and once we had it under control he returned to competition - I competed him successfully up to medium level in affiliated dressage including being placed at Regional championships. he is retired from competition now due to mild arthritis but is still sound and working.
He is bedded on shavings as he has triggered relapses by eating straw.
It was a struggle to get the information in the early days and most feed companies know little or nothing about it. Certainly to the extent that what they call 'low starch' is enough to trigger a relapse.
For BJ anything over 5% is too much and his last relapse was triggered by A&P FastFibre which is supposedly only 5%. He is currently on the winergy equilibrium senior which is 3.5%. For oil we use black oil sunflower seeds as they are very palatable - many horses refuse to eat the quantity of oil needed.

Easiest way to see if it will help your boy is to trial the diet as it won't harm him.
 
Thank you Lgd. I have started him on a diet of alfalfa pellets with oil and a supplement called Excel-E, how long will it take to see an improvement if this is the problem?
 
We saw a difference within 10 days in terms of behaviour and general well-being with BJ. It took 6 months to really get him on an even keel and identify the triggers. Thankfully there is a lot more knowledge around about it nowadays.

One other thing we have found with him is that he is very sensitive to being cold and does not seem to regulate his temperature very well. As a native he shouldn't really need rugs if hairy (he is clipped in winter) but even in the summer months he needs rugs. Being 'cold' in his terms can tip him off into a relapse so we have just accepted over the years that he needs rugs to keep him right.
 
Azbo said:
I have been reading this thread with interest.

Classicalfan and LucyPriory, what are your personal experiences of a horse that has been diagnosed?

I have read some of the information on the links you posted earlier and found the link to the Rural Heritage website very interesting, especially as it is describing symptoms my WB TB Arab cross is displaying.
Click to expand...

We run a rehab centre. Am also a vet. There is a lot of misinformation out there. Main problem being lack of regulation and analysis criteria. In conditions such as PSSM, for example, there is a high genetic link. Misdiagnosis is common.
 
Classicalfan what would you suggest I do? The vets here in Italy aren't much help, I have tried 3 different ones and they haven't given me any suggestions on what to do next.
I am prepared to load him up on the trailer and take him to a clinic in France at this point, I can't stand seeing him poorly and not being able to help him.
 
minime said:
Classicalfan what would you suggest I do? The vets here in Italy aren't much help, I have tried 3 different ones and they haven't given me any suggestions on what to do next.
I am prepared to load him up on the trailer and take him to a clinic in France at this point, I can't stand seeing him poorly and not being able to help him.
Click to expand...

:eek:We're bursting at the seams but thank you for the sentiment!
Have PMd you.
 
classicalfan said:
We run a rehab centre. Am also a vet. There is a lot of misinformation out there. Main problem being lack of regulation and analysis criteria. In conditions such as PSSM, for example, there is a high genetic link. Misdiagnosis is common.
Click to expand...

Ah well that would explain it!

We have a young horse who has never been easy or straight forward. Is currently being treated for back pain. This having been treated for ligament damage last year in the same spot, scanned clear in September and then slowly been bought back into work. hacking out and only very gently re-schooled (walk, trot only). I've linked to my original thread below:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=471350

He's 7 now and I understand too young for muscle biopsy.

Would you say its worth placing a horse on a low sugar/starch diet if they are showing behavior indicative to EPSM/ PMMS, if this is unproven?
 
My horse was younger than seven when he has his muscle biopsys, he had two ten months apart and they gave us the answers we were looking for.
 
Thanks My bambinos, we have been told he's too young. I guess here is an example of what ClassicalFan was refering in first post.
 
Hi Renee

My boy had his done in his bum cheek (at the side of his dock) it was a simple procedure untaken at my vets clinic when he had his second one it was in the same area on the other cheek :)

The only reason he had two biopsys was because they wanted to see if his levels had improved (which they had) and to test if he just had Azourtoria or PSSM as well.

Liz
 
My boy has PSSM. I give him soaked hay...1.5 to body weight-vets requirements and he has 1lb soaked speedibeat split into 2 feeds with a splash of veg oil for exercise days for the energy and a vitamin e and selenium supplement.
His latest results show he is imbalanced in other vitamins and minerals so i am after an overall balancer that is low in protein(too much protein ties him up no matter what they say about them needing it for muscle repair etc). Im needing a balancer with no more than 7% protein in as his total allowance is 20%, anymore sends him over the edge.
If someone could recommend a balancer it would be great as i have been looking forever!
Renee, i Hope you have your horse settled with his PSSM. I know how stressful it can be to get the right balance.
Thanks
Kelly
 
Currently there are two types of PSSM/EPSM idenitified.

PSSM type 1 they have identified the genetic mutation so is diagnosable by genetic test - this is blood test (sent to University of Minnesota) or by DNA hair test:
http://www.horsedna.co.uk/PSSM.html
I had both done on mine which showed the same results. The hair test didn't need a vet

PSSM type 2 they are working on the genetic component so is only diagnosable by muscle biopsy where they test the levels of glycogen and the presence of the abnormal polysaccharide which is present in PSSM horses.

The Univerity of Minnesota has a wealth of information on there regarding diagnosis and all the previous research articles giving some breed prevalances etc.

Management: this is very individual as many people on this thread have said already - what works for one doesn't for others. It is a combination of diet (no/low sugar) and exercise, religiously stuck to which helps. Again - minnesota have a good section on this too, including a section on a programme for coming back into work after an episode.
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/PSSM/home.html

Recently some vets seem to be recommending the diet change and response to that to help with diagnosis.

I contacted Dr Piercy at the Royal Vet College in London who is one of the experts in PSSM/EPSM over here in the UK who guided my vet in the right direction in terms of the DNA blood test - mine presented with raised muscle enzymes (AST/CK) after a week off work (lack of consistent work is not good for these horses) which kept rising with rest but started reducing after a week of walking gently daily.

As previously mentioned also, RER is another cause of tying up, but this is muscle calcium regulation related rather than sugar related so is different to PSSM/EPSM.
 
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