Equi-Jewel v Outshine - Omega imbalance?

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sonjafoers

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Hi, does anyone know anything about the omega balance in the above feeds please?

I have fed both over the years and have been pleased with them, but have today been reading something which suggests Rice Bran which Equi-Jewel is has a much higher amount of omega 6 than omega 3. If it's correct this would make it more pro inflammatory and quite unbalanced.

When reading the blurb on Outshine it does seem to be more balanced in terms of omega 3/omega 6.

Can anyone shed any light on this for me or give me the pros & cons of either please?

Thank you.
 
Off the top of my head O-6 is proinflammatory and O-3 is anti. What are you trying to do with this excess of oil?
 
I prefer Equi Jewel as it is balanced to make up for the high phos. I hate outshine because I hate soya. I have seen what it can do to horses in a very small amount. And people wonder why there is a glutton of IR horses all the sudden.

I guess I'm really too biased to be giving you a proper opinion. But I've used both and am happy with Rice Bran results.

Terr
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
I prefer Equi Jewel as it is balanced to make up for the high phos. I hate outshine because I hate soya. I have seen what it can do to horses in a very small amount. And people wonder why there is a glutton of IR horses all the sudden.

I guess I'm really too biased to be giving you a proper opinion. But I've used both and am happy with Rice Bran results.

Terr
Click to expand...

What can soya do to horses? Do you mean it can cause laminitis? I am just asking in order to learn that's all.

Why should we be concerned about omega imbalances anyway? Is it not the case that omegas are good fats and if you overfeed one then the body will excrete it?

I feed my laminitic mare a couple of capfuls of linseed oil as she is skinny. She gets her other vitamins from her blue chip lami lite - surely this 'balancer' counteracts any 'imbalances' or am I being over-simplistic here? Sorry for the (stupid) questions but you have got me thinking now.
 
As far as I'm aware omega 6 is pro inflammatory and omega 3 is anti inflammatory and an inbalance can cause problems. I am a complete numpty at this so I could be wrong, but something I read on the net said rice bran causes a high amount of omega 6 in horses which is unsatisfactory. It didn't go into too much detail about what the problems were though!

This worried me a bit as I do feed Equi-Jewel so I was hoping someone on here could enlighten me :)

Tallyho! I feed in small amounts to increase the calorie content of feed for a horse that can't tolerate cereals/ high starch levels and who won't eat large meals.
 
I had a serious issue with my horses and soya. At the time of ditching it completely 3 years ago mine were living on a dry lot with soaked hay and 1pd total per day of a balancer. They were fat with fat pads, cresty necks, sore feet and behavorial issues as well. My mare at that stage had not gone in foal yet again. Previous easy breeder. To make a long story short, took them off the balancer despite feed company telling me I was mad in the head and that I just may have horses that can't graze like normal. Within 3 weeks all of that was gone. All the symptoms gone and my horses returned to a normal life of being a horse.

Alfalfa is a legume as is soya. People always go on about how alfalfa makes certain horses batty but we never accuse soya of anything bad.

It's in EVERYTHING. It's cheap cheap cheap and reaps maximum profits for feed companies. All the sudden IR is the horsie ailment du jour. Started about the time miracle balancers started filling the market. All the sudden grass is evil. Sure an odd horse had problems but not to the extent they do now. And us as owners buy into this whole crap of without all this perfect nutrition in a bag we are not doing right by our horses. I left America in 2001. I worked at the track. Horses there were still being fed straights and a vit and min supp. They were all big healthy horses. They had 2 kinds of hay on offer 24/7. None of this crap I see over here in racing yards of limiting to the extreme how much forage a horse can have. But that is how horses have been done for centuries and now all the sudden we have serious issues with overweight horses and we blame grazing.

I have all TB's and TB Warmblood crosses. Because no one is in serious work they are getting a handful of beet with a high spec vit and min supp and flax seed mixed in. Forage 24/7. They need zero else. I have the shiniest horses in the barn. When in hard work oats, grass nuts, barley and rice bran are added. But it just depends on the situation and horse.

FYI, an extremely fit horse backs themselves off things like hay naturally which is why I despise people limiting it to high level competition horses or racehorses. An odd one needs cut back all right, but very few. Also in bagged feed the amounts to be fed are outrageous to get the vit and min content needed. And most owners over estimate the work their horse is in and also feel guilty if they aren't feeding Pookie enough.

I've asked several feed companies to make a balancer based on flax instead of soya. Answer I always get, not cost effective. I would pay an extra 20 a bag knowing they have what they need without the crap they don't need. Plus it saves me money in the long run on vet fees. And the money and hassle caring for an IR horse which in all likelihood could be feed related, no thanks. But GQ Public would rather leave the nutrition to big feed companies so long as it's cheap. You get what you pay for.

Terri
 
Thank you for your reply Terri, very interesting and I think a lot of what you said is echoed by posts I read on here about basically being aware of what's in a bag of feed & not falling for the marketing ploy.

I have read a bit about how detrimental feeding soya can be and I have spoken to 2 feed companies who I probably shouldn't name who told it was a load of rubbish & soya was very safe to feed both in high amounts and over the long term.

I decided not to feed soya oil pre se but I did decided to feed an oil or fat supplement for one particular horse. I spoke to Baileys who assured me Outshine was perfectly safe to feed and I also discussed Equi-Jewel with Saracen as these were the 2 products I could get hold of at my merchants.

To be honest I felt that feeding the soya with linseed ( Outshine ) would be safer than feeding pure soya oil and as it's sometimes the only high oil supplement I can get I feed it without too much concern in the same way as I do with Equi-Jewel.

However now I've read that Rice Bran is unbalanced I am concerned about exactly what I am feeding! I see that you feed Rice Bran so I'm assuming you would say that actually it's safe and not unbalanced - ie. you would choose Equi-Jewel over Outshine.

I am still very confused unfortunately!
 
They have balanced the rice bran in Equi Jewel. I use it sparingly if I need it for extra condition. Not using currently. I did not have issues with it but never used it long term.

By the way it was Bailey's that told me I was mad in the head! LOL! Then told me their stud balancer was basically for TB's. When I explained that I had TB's I was told it's not possible to have issues with soya. Yeah ok. But whatever, they have to make their money but I can't be bothered listening to any of those people anymore.

One thing I had to do was learn how to actually feed. Something that is really being lost now.

The thing is Outshine could be fine for your horse. I would never say to someone don't do that because of the issues my horses had. Just see how it goes. If you see any unpleasant side effects then stop. I did have decent success with other horses on balancers but I prefer to feed straights if I can.

Terri
 
If Equijewel is bad I'm stuffed for one of mine! Only feed I've managed to find that's low starch and doesn't have soya or alfalfa in it - that and speedibeet and there's only so much of that you can feed!

Soya sends her loopy (so outshine is out), I've had very bad experiences with alfalfa mucking up metabolisms (one horse where this happened was her half-sister) and she was laminitic when I got her, so keeping sugars low is important. Out on ad-lib plentiful grass + speedibeet isn't quite enough for the level of work. Will follow this with interest! Any way to balance the omegas? Since being on it she looks fab....?
 
I do tend to switch between the 2 from time to time depending on which one is readily available so I may not feed any one of them long enough to notice a problem.

What sort of problems would I be looking out for when feeding the Outshine?
 
I'd be looking for fat pads, sore or sensitive feet, for one of mine she was like away with the fairies. Best way to describe that! It was strange. Basically IR symptoms. Well not the away with the faries thing.

Look you may not have any issues and that would be fantastic. I'm kind of like one of those soya extremists I guess! I don't want to put my brand of crazy on anyone! I just always caution people if having IR symptoms wit their horses to talk to their vet and do some research before undertaking a life if misery for said horse and possible expensive vet treatments for life especially when high fat diets are recommended. A simple very inexpensive feed change and a relatively short amount of time can make the difference for horses. And whatever you do don't pretend big feed companies will give helpful advice.

Good luck!
Terri
 
I totally understand you're not scaremongering Terri, I'm just very interested in what I put into my girls and like to hear all points of view.

I've really tried to change my TBs way of feeding because she is quite sensitive and I'm not sure whether it's a particular ingredient ( eg barley ) or whether it's just the starch level in general. Some 'high energy' feeds she is fine on and other cool type natural feeds send her loopy.

I have tried her with mainly forage/natural chop type products and that didn't work, neither did Simple Systems or Pure Feed.

She is very overfaced by small amounts of feed & will often leave a meal if she thinks it's too big, she also goes off food very quickly so may eat it for a week or 2 and then not touch it at all. As a result I can struggle with her condition in winter and that oil/fat type supplements do tend to help.

On the other hand my well covered cob eats anything that's put in front of her, looks great & has the temperament of an angel!
 
Micronised Linseed Charnwood Millings.

or

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/tradenews/article.php?aid=297843

From Wiki
Omega-3 fatty acids
Roasted soybeansOmega-3 fatty acids, for example, alpha-linolenic acid C18-3, all cis, 9,12,15 octadecatrienoic acid (where the omega-3 refers to carbon number 3 counting from the hydrocarbon tail whereas C-15 refers to carbon number 15 counting from the carboxyl acid head) are special fat components that benefit many body functions. However, the effects which are beneficial to health are associated mainly with the longer-chain, more unsaturated fatty acids eicosapentaenoic acid (20:5n-3, EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (22:6n-3, DHA) found in fish oil and oily fish. For instance, EPA and DHA, inhibit blood clotting, while there is no evidence that alpha-linolenic acid (18:3n−3, aLNA) can do this. Soybean oil is one of the few common vegetable oils that contain a significant amount of aLNA (others include canola, walnut, hemp, and flax). However, soybean oil does not contain EPA or DHA. Soybean oil does contain significantly greater amount of omega-6 fatty acids in the oil: 100 g of soybean oil contains 7 g of omega-3 fatty acids to 51 g of omega-6: a ratio of 1:7. Flaxseed, in comparison, has an omega-3:omega-6 ratio of 3:1.

once you get over 300ml you will need Vit E. horses can produce O6 from O3 so feed one high in 3
 
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