Equine Dwarfisim (Friesians, Mini Horses, Mini Donkeys, Welsh)

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Equi

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I have been trawling the net looking for the perfect information to share about it, cause so many people are going mad for the cuteness of the amazon advert pony, Acer. Yes, he is very "cute" but stops being cute when people actively begin to start looking for a pony like him, thus some breeders (if you can call them that) have begun to breed specifically to try and achieve that dwarf look. Not miniature, dwarf.

I feel that a lot of horsey people genuinely don't know about dwarfisim, its rather rare! So i have finally found what i think is an amazing thread of information on dwarfisim. It makes a very good read. Enjoy!

http://myhorseforum.com/threads/equine-dwarfism-101-version-2-updated-2014.532482/#post7523134
 
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equi said:
I have been trawling the net looking for the perfect information to share about it, cause so many people are going mad for the cuteness of the amazon advert pony, Acer. Yes, he is very "cute" but stops being cute when people actively begin to start looking for a pony like him, thus some breeders (if you can call them that) have begun to breed specifically to try and achieve that dwarf look. Not miniature, dwarf.

I feel that a lot of horsey people genuinely don't know about dwarfisim, its rather rare! So i have finally found what i think is an amazing thread of information on dwarfisim. It makes a very good read. Enjoy!

http://myhorseforum.com/threads/equine-dwarfism-101-version-2-updated-2014.532482/#post7523134
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Yes, I saw the advert for the first time and he is indeed cute. But unfortunately it is the flip side of the Georgian and Victorian predilection for breeding the biggest, broadest they could. Hence Shires which should be around 16hh being bred up to in excess of 19 hands. Needless to say their legs failed at a young age. I don't have a problem particularly with breeding animals a particular way to do a job of work, but just to make them cute, pocket sized for our convenience makes my skin crawl I'm sorry to say. And don't get me started on pedigree dogs! Ask any human who suffers with Dwarfism and they will list all the physical problems their condition brings. I can't believe animals with the same genetic mishap don't also suffer from something like.
 
That does read like a very good post equi, thanks for posting it and it is a shame that dwarf sires were ever used.

Are you aware of any pics of welsh or shetlands affected as I am not sure I have ever seen one (have seen the american minis and friesians before).
 
ester said:
That does read like a very good post equi, thanks for posting it and it is a shame that dwarf sires were ever used.

Are you aware of any pics of welsh or shetlands affected as I am not sure I have ever seen one (have seen the american minis and friesians before).
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I think it can be hard in some cases to tell if a mini dwarf is of shetland breeding or mini breeding.

This is apparently a welsh pony:

IMG_2507.jpg
 
I personally have never heard of anyone shetland studs breeding dwarf's on purpose(well not in the UK, possibly more likely in the US), it's hard enough here to approve a stallion if it has even the slightest parrot mouth which is a very undesirable trait that affects some shetlands

. I only saw the advert once, thought it was cute and pony didn't strike me as a dwarf (though I didn't have my glasses on and haven't been able to find it online to watch - if anyone has it perhaps post the link? :) )

Anyway, the point I would make is the majority of non horsey people who think the pony is cute won't go seeking out a dwarf pony over a healthy shetland/mini because tbh I doubt they would notice a difference as long as it is small cute and hairy :) and the horsey people should know better!
 
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Merlod said:
I personally have never heard of anyone shetland studs breeding dwarf's on purpose.. (well not in the UK, possibly more likely in the US with mini horses). I only saw the advert once, thought it was cute and pony didn't strike me as a dwarf (though I didn't have my glasses on and haven't been able to find it online to watch).

Anyway, the point I would make is the majority of non horsey people who think the pony is cute won't go seeking out a dwarf pony over a healthy shetland/mini because tbh I doubt they would notice a difference as long as it is small cute and hairy :) and the horsey people should know better!
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It would not be shetland breeders, it would be mini breeders. And i know of at least two, so it does happen. When you see how much attention the little ones get, you see why. People build careers based on their special equine.
 
Oh that's awful! I've always thought of it as a mostly american problem. Do they allow these dwarf youngstock to be registered?
 
Merlod said:
Oh that's awful! I've always thought of it as a mostly american problem. Do they allow these dwarf youngstock to be registered?
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As a rule no, but the ones displaying minimal characteristics may get missed when registering so could accidentally be.
 
I saw the Amazon ad for the first time yesterday. I thought the little pony looked terribly unsound. Now I understand why. I'm afraid if I bred one it would be PTS immediately. The pics on the link are horrendous!
 
Yes I did see him, not the most verified of breeding though and am not convinced ;). Also just based on numbers you would think we would see some over here too?
 
Merlod said:
I personally have never heard of anyone shetland studs breeding dwarf's on purpose(well not in the UK, possibly more likely in the US), it's hard enough here to approve a stallion if it has even the slightest parrot mouth which is a very undesirable trait that affects some shetlands

. I only saw the advert once, thought it was cute and pony didn't strike me as a dwarf (though I didn't have my glasses on and haven't been able to find it online to watch - if anyone has it perhaps post the link? :) )

Anyway, the point I would make is the majority of non horsey people who think the pony is cute won't go seeking out a dwarf pony over a healthy shetland/mini because tbh I doubt they would notice a difference as long as it is small cute and hairy :) and the horsey people should know better!
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Unfortunately historically it appears they have been bred on purpose.
 
I know a few over here but they've not been publicized (I'm in Ireland)

acer (Amazon pony) is from uk. He was not delibrety bred that way to be fair.
 
In Shetland, if a dwarf pony appears at the sales, they are vanished. This is something that is not promoted on the islands in any way. Dwarfism should not be promoted in this breed of horse.
 
ester said:
Yes I did mean re. welshies in wales I guess.

Hopefully with at least some testing the problem can start to be bred out.
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Oh I see haha!

Frances144 said:
In Shetland, if a dwarf pony appears at the sales, they are vanished. This is something that is not promoted on the islands in any way. Dwarfism should not be promoted in this breed of horse.
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Quite.
 
Good article equi, it makes for pretty somber reading. I didn't realise about the Friesians or Welshies, although I have seen a few suspect Shetlands that have appeared not all they should be. However, it really shouldn't come as any surprise us that some are deliberately breeding these poor creatures, despite the probabilities of the horrific conditions they likely to suffer as a result. As a species, we have an awful lot to answer for.
 
Overall, it was very interesting to read. I've read a little about dwarfism in dogs before, so it was extra interesting when some posts on the thread, made some comparisons with dwarfism in dogs. I've also opened several of the links, but one of them was 95 pages long! I must admit that I'm not that interested in horse dwarfism.

There is a warning in the first post about that some links contains pictures of dead horse fetus, but I wish that there had also been a warning about sad stories, since both Tifron's and Little Bit's stories have made me cry.
 
Merlod said:
I finally managed to find the video and after seeing it up close I can see what you mean now!
https://www.facebook.com/pegasebuzz/videos/vb.108588555882631/954840911257387/?type=2&theater

Does anyone remember the moonwalking shetland from a while back? I always thought he looked long bodied and oddly short in the leg, do you think that would mean he has skeletal atavism or just a result of the editing to make him moonwalk?
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He probably just has his winter woolies on, most minis and sheltands look abnormal in winter :D
 
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I'm so glad that you have done a thread on this Equi. Dwarf horses really do suffer terribly in some cases and I read somewhere that they can have very sour or depressed temperaments which they believe is linked to the constant pain that they can be in.

Do you remember the Thumbelina video where she was obviously a very unhappy pony and was repeatedly trying to get the children to leave her alone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD4j9__qgUs
 
Faracat said:
I'm so glad that you have done a thread on this Equi. Dwarf horses really do suffer terribly in some cases and I read somewhere that they can have very sour or depressed temperaments which they believe is linked to the constant pain that they can be in.

Do you remember the Thumbelina video where she was obviously a very unhappy pony and was repeatedly trying to get the children to leave her alone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD4j9__qgUs
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Thats quite a distressing video :(

I do a few things with my minis, school visits and petting farms and the like. Mine all cope very well with it, but if they show a little bit of distress they are taken away immediately and boxed or penned away from public, and i always give them a break from all the fuss too.
 
Thanks Equi - an interesting post.

I knew about the Friesian dwarfism as the FPS have spent a small fortune in conjunction with the university at Utrecht to identify the gene and basically try to breed it out. All Friesians who are in the studbook are DNA tested and no stallion who carries the Dwarfism gene will be given approval. All offspring should be registered and DNA samples provided - any mares who carry the gene are identified to the owners as a breeding risk.

There are a few starting to slip through again as more and more people are breeding from unregistered (and therefore untested) stock.
 
The linked post seemed to suggest that the exact mutation hadn't been identified and couldn't be tested for do you have a link for interest if it has now been?

ah found it, no it is still a marking test but better than nothing! shame it is only available in the Netherlands though.
http://english.kfps.nl/Nieuws.aspx?NewsId=1721
 
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chillipup said:
Good article equi, it makes for pretty somber reading. I didn't realise about the Friesians or Welshies, although I have seen a few suspect Shetlands that have appeared not all they should be. However, it really shouldn't come as any surprise us that some are deliberately breeding these poor creatures, despite the probabilities of the horrific conditions they likely to suffer as a result. As a species, we have an awful lot to answer for.
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There is a chap local to me who walks what appears at first glance to be a GSD until you look down and realise he practically has the leg length of a corgi. I assumed he just had mismatched parents and was an accident but apparently he was bred in Spain and when the breeders realised he was a dwarf, they just chucked him out in the street. The man spent a fortune shipping him back here so he is a very lucky dog, and a lovely natured one too I must say.
 
Merlod said:
I finally managed to find the video and after seeing it up close I can see what you mean now!
https://www.facebook.com/pegasebuzz/videos/vb.108588555882631/954840911257387/?type=2&theater

Does anyone remember the moonwalking shetland from a while back? I always thought he looked long bodied and oddly short in the leg, do you think that would mean he has skeletal atavism or just a result of the editing to make him moonwalk?
Click to expand...


That was cgi. He is a gold award Shetland pony stallion.

http://www.shetlandponiesfromshetland.com/benstonstallions.html Milday Socks
 
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Faracat said:
I'm so glad that you have done a thread on this Equi. Dwarf horses really do suffer terribly in some cases and I read somewhere that they can have very sour or depressed temperaments which they believe is linked to the constant pain that they can be in.

Do you remember the Thumbelina video where she was obviously a very unhappy pony and was repeatedly trying to get the children to leave her alone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD4j9__qgUs
Click to expand...

this was hard to watch :(

interesting read though equi!didnt realise it occurred in friesans
 
ester said:
The linked post seemed to suggest that the exact mutation hadn't been identified and couldn't be tested for do you have a link for interest if it has now been?

ah found it, no it is still a marking test but better than nothing! shame it is only available in the Netherlands though.
http://english.kfps.nl/Nieuws.aspx?NewsId=1721
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http://www2.ca.uky.edu/gluck/AGTRL.asp#Dwarfism
This is the one for minis, but i'm sure they would do other breeds too. There is a mini breeder in the netherlands who has all his stock done, so i wonder if they do it there rather than USA (its much cheaper! in netherlands!)

Tests only started in 2014...so its still very new. I suspect that soon, some of the UK labs will start it.
 
Personally I think all equines born with dwarfism should be put down at birth or at weaning if the mare is particularly stressy. It should not be encouraged nor should a pony with dwarfism be bred from.


A few years ago a dwarf Shetland was shown and when the judge placed it last and explained why the owner went off her rocker and said that it had the best breeding of the whole class. Be that is as it may but a dwarf is still a dwarf.
 
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