Equine obesity cases to court - what about obese pets - and children??

little_flea

little_flea

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Not entirely horsey, but thought it would make for good debate...

Whilst I agree that equine obesity is a form of cruelty, I really don't know what to think about these cases going to court. Can pet owners with fat cats and dogs get taken to court? Should they?

And this obviously leads on to another contentous subject - should parents with obese children be taken to court? If not, why not? Surely this is cruelty on the same level as letting your horses become obese?

Animals obviously don't have any idea of the health risks involved in obesity so would not be able to make a decision to stop eating - and I suppose the same could be said for children. Obese adults should be able to make their own decisions - but when do children become responsible for their own actions?
 
I am always perturbed when watching a showing class.
To me, not a judge or showing person, I would rather see a muscled, athletic horse showing off their conformation and best paces, not a tubby barrel waddling around the ring.
As I have said, I have never shown and no nothing about it.
It is just an observation from the other side of the ropes.
 
I think i'm right in saying there was a case recently where social workers took two / three obese children away from their parents in Glasgow cos they were all obese. The parents had been warned and given help to offer a balanced diet to the kids but they took no notice.

Its quite a new phenomenon I think. There have been a few dogs / cats also rescued and owners prosecuted.

I personally think a lot of obesity in animals is misguided treats/ over feeding from indulgent owners and in humans I think a lot is down to poverty and lack of education.

Supermarkets have a lot of blame imo, you shouldn't be able to buy bulk sausage rolls for £1 and fresh food at top prices.
 
Of course, I think a lot would agree with that - but is obesity in horses something that should go to court, given that (as far as I know) owners with fat pets, don't - and nor do parents with obese children?
 
hmm... I think human obesity is a totally different kettle of fish personally - you have to take into account psychological issues and medical issues.

I don't think wasting money taking people to court is the solution either.

Difficult one.
 
That is interesting LHS, I wasn't aware of that. Yes, it really is a sign of these times, isn't it, I guess the law is not quite sure how to deal with these issues yet.

My friend recently told me of a woman at her old yard who fed her horses doughnuts and sweets to the point where the horses got laminitis :-(
 
LOL that reminds me when I was stabled at a Riding School that had a nice restaurant attached. I would always find my horse being fed by the kids after their parties, danish pastries, fish fingers you name it he ate it. A 17'' TB though takes rather more to become obese luckily but he certainly enjoyed a varied diet.

He has a sweet tooth though and eat 6 donuts that I had left in his stable and whilst I was distracted he ate the whole lot, the only clue as to what had happened to them was he was caught licking the sugar from his mouth.
 
QR I think overfeeding is as bad, if not worse, than underfeeding an animal.

I was at a dog match the other night and there were a couple of obese labs - they all won prizes.
There was a bitch puppy which was huge and its owners thought it was really funny to run and slide around on the slippy wooden floor after the match was over - for a breed prone to hip and elbow dysplasia, keeping a puppy overweight and allowing it to hoon around like that on such a service is just plain stupid IMHO.
 

Just line 'em all up and shoot the lot of them
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I joke of course, but I will admit to being a bit of a fat-ist and I have little sympathy for people with fat pets (including - actually especially - horses), and people who are obese themselves. OK, so there are medical reasons why people put on excess weight, but in the majority of cases it's fairly simple: if you consume more calories than you expend, you will gain weight.

I definitely think there are cases, equine, human, and animal in general where those responsible - and that includes parents of some overweight children - should have action taken against them.
 
QR

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LOL that reminds me when I was stabled at a Riding School that had a nice restaurant attached. I would always find my horse being fed by the kids after their parties, danish pastries, fish fingers you name it he ate it. A 17'' TB though takes rather more to become obese luckily but he certainly enjoyed a varied diet.

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I'm having trouble keeping weight on my TB at the mo, I might try him with a Danish or a doughnut!

little_flea - I agree with you completely. But there just aren't clear guidelines set in place (yet).

Rolls - be careful - I mentioned this (among other things in showing) recently and was almost lynched.
 
Trouble is, alot of obesity arises through ignorance, and a lack of knowledge (some of us call it stupidity
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But then maybe the definition of cruelty needs to be rethought by joe public, as feeding an animal (or human) too much or incorrectly (not having ago at poster above with doughnut eating hose btw!) is just as cruel as feeding too little.

TBH, if you're going to prosecute the owners of obese animals, I think you could also prosecute the parents of obese kids, esp if they are say under 5 and as such, not really making their own decisions - just eating what they're given. I don't think this will ever happen fwiw.
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[ QUOTE ]
I am always perturbed when watching a showing class.
To me, not a judge or showing person, I would rather see a muscled, athletic horse showing off their conformation and best paces, not a tubby barrel waddling around the ring.
As I have said, I have never shown and no nothing about it.
It is just an observation from the other side of the ropes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think showing gets a little bit of a bad rep when it comes to obesity. I'm not saying its not a problem (for you do see obese horses in the ring), but the problem seems emphasised because when you compare these competition horses to others they do look much bigger so everyone likes to jump onto showing as a blame factor.

I'm fairly sure if you were to go to visit livery yards around the country, you'd see a lot more obese horses in the group that don't compete than in the group that do. Certainly at my yard my show fell (who is fat I will admit ,but there is nothing more we could do that isn't already being done) is by no means the fattest pony.

There is a lot of pressure on showing to slim down right now, correctly so. But thats only cause those horses are so much in the public eye. We need to be putting the same pressure on ALL horse owners, and not just hone in on one grouping just because they have a reputation of being overweight.

In short, I think if someone is not taking all steps possible to stop their horse becoming obese, then yes they should be taken to court as a final step. It's just as bad as underfeeding; it's dangerous for their health and in this day and age ignorance is not an excuse.
 
MissSBird - I agree entirely HOWEVER I think the reason showing gets a bad rap is the fact that judges often encourage this weight on horses. People are often told that their horses, particularly young horses, need "more condition" to move up the line. This is beginning to change, but not fast enough.

Leisure horses, pets etc are harder to police. But when obese horses are being placed above fitter animals it encourages a) other competitors to follow suit and b) less knowledgable owners to use them as an example.
 
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Supermarkets have a lot of blame imo, you shouldn't be able to buy bulk sausage rolls for £1 and fresh food at top prices.

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Maybe,but it is still up to you what you buy.
Off on a trip with college tomorow,bought some stuff for a pack lunch since no food shops on site.The fruit and veg I am taking cost me Less then £1 from local greengrocers.
Granted it would have been a LOT more in a supermarket
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And as owners/parents we still have controll over what we buy,whatever the food budget may be.
Just because something is a BOGOF offer doesnt mean you must buy it.
My animals have what they need worked out and put down,none are over or under weight.
Son is allowed one sweet and junk drink as a snack after school and is right in middle of healthy weight range-the supermarkets have a lot to answer for,but they dont force our mouths open to shove food in
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Little Flea,in the UK people are taken to court for obese animals.
There was a case of a lab owned by two brothers a few years ago,the pony just a few weeks ago(discussion & link in LN) and although not aware of a court case,children have been removed from parents who refused to controll weight of obese children.
It's a fairly new thing,but IMO will become more common.
 
I absolutely agree with you, people do have a choice as to what to buy but If you are a family on a minimal budget you may only be able to afford the £1 sausage rolls to feed your family rather than the £8 joint of beef and veg to go with it.

Its a shame more people are not interested in helping themselves cos even the poor could grow fruit / veg in the garden or window box, whatever. Councils should allocate land for community allotments in deprived areas then the availability of fresh produce would help everyone.
 
I do not think that on the horse front it is necessarily owners that are mis-guided. I have always done my very utmost to keep my Welshie as slim as possible...he has done up to 30 miles hacking in the week and then done 15 mile pleasure rides at the weekend...is on restricted grass etc etc.
But he was still classed as needing to loose more weight by the vet.
Following laminitis recently he lost a lot of weight on box rest as he just stopped eating really and became withdrawn. I cried each time I took his rug off to look at him as he had changed so much with the weight loss. When the vet came to give him a final check up I took his rug off and she said...rigth that is great, he is at the ideal weight now...keep him like that! I was shocked rigid as I was expecting her to say he needed to put a bit back on and then level out.
I am now having to adjust to the fact that seeing a definition of ribs through a winter wooly coat is ok...not an easy task at all...so I think it comes down to what the eye beholds and what looks 'healthy' a lot of the time.
 
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I absolutely agree with you, people do have a choice as to what to buy but If you are a family on a minimal budget you may only be able to afford the £1 sausage rolls to feed your family rather than the £8 joint of beef and veg to go with it.

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You know,just to prove a point to my OH a while ago christmas before last I did the weeks shop on the budget I grew up on.
Father died when I was a toddler so mother was a single parent on benefits for a long time,she had £70 a week for 4 of us(two teenage lads that would have eaten the house if it had ketchup on
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.
We had everything we would normaly have had.The only difference was more home baking and own brands instead of name brands.
Course it oculd be argued that I am skilled at shopping on a low budget because I grew up in that enviroment,but if it's you day to day reality you would become very skilled at it very soon too
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It's difficult,would never argue that it's not,but it is possable to provide good meals even on a very small budget.

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Its a shame more people are not interested in helping themselves cos even the poor could grow fruit / veg in the garden or window box, whatever. Councils should allocate land for community allotments in deprived areas then the availability of fresh produce would help everyone.

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That would be a wonderfull idea!
And I agree that some just dont want to help themselves,you can spend that £1 on a BOGOF multi pack of crisps or a bag of spuds...choice is yours.
 
One of my neighbours has a grossly overweight dog and the vet has warned her she is killing it. Her reply? "It makes me happy, so I'm not going to stop," and int he same breath will tell you how much she loves this dog and how inconsolable she will be if she dies.

One of my daughter's friends is obese. she is wearing a trainer bra at seven years old and couldn't walk around a field on a recent school trip becuase she "couldn't breath properly" (her quote). She is teased unmercifully at school and both parents are slim. The problem seems to stem from the fact that she doesn't like anything healthy and only wants to eat chocolate all the time and her parents "don't want to waste their time" by arguing with her or "make her unhappy". Yes, because life is just wonderful now. The school pursues a policy of healthy eating and have written to the parents on three ocassions warning them their daughter is not allowed to bring as many as 10 choclate bars to school and eat them for lunch (I kid you not). They have ignored them all. Both of the examples I emtnion involve middle class people educated to a degree level.

I'm sorry, but I would prosecute.
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Just line 'em all up and shoot the lot of them
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I joke of course, but I will admit to being a bit of a fat-ist and I have little sympathy for people with fat pets (including - actually especially - horses), and people who are obese themselves. OK, so there are medical reasons why people put on excess weight, but in the majority of cases it's fairly simple: if you consume more calories than you expend, you will gain weight.

I definitely think there are cases, equine, human, and animal in general where those responsible - and that includes parents of some overweight children - should have action taken against them.

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Oh what sense you talk.....I am always amazed by the amount of overweight inactive people I see ( as a health worker)....who tell me they eat 'nothing'....well- if that were true they wouldnt being weighing in at 19stone at only 5ft 4''......yes- diabetics and those with restricted mobility will have difficulty losing weight but yep, tis true...if you burn more calories than you intake...you lose weight- simple maths.

Horse on our yard has rippling fat ...kid you not....owner has been told countless times her horse is obese...by judges/vets/farriers...she knows he is overweight and to be fair he is excercised regularly....but still has x2 massive bucket feeds per day, a net of haylage that practically has to be winched into the stable and he is either out at grass all day unrestricted, or kept in munching yet more haylage when the grass is poor
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