Equine Physio's , chiropractors etc

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angelish

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Hi i was wondering if anyone could explain a few things to me , either if you have have someone out to look at your horse or you are indeed one of the above or some other kind of back person :o

iv'e never had any dealings with any kind of back person or physio's , i'd simply never felt the need and tbh am a little skeptical
so i have been convinced my horses pelvis is "out" and recommended to get a chiropractor out to see him

i have had saddle problems and his back was sore this could have a lot to do with it ,iv'e also been asking him to work harder and he has stuggled a little with counter canter and stepping across from right to left in leg yeild/half pass etc

so i took the advice and got the chiro person out two weeks ago , they proded about a bit , confirmed his "pelvis is out" lifted a hind leg and got me to hold it while they pushed down on it
then "pinged" along his spine , didn't really say very much , i had to ask what i should do with the horse for the next few days/weeks etc

they were been and gone in 15 mins and booked him back in for two weeks time which was this morning
he was here 10 mins (including taking a phone call) said his pelvis had slipped out again , repeated the lifting leg/pushing down this and pingged along his spin again said he'd see him in another two weeks and took another £40 from me :o

£40 for 10 mins ? he did very little in that time , i had to ask again what i should now do and he said walk him for a few days then work him harder to see how he copes , yet he's done very little the last two weeks and aparently his pelvis has slipped out again ?


i really do feel like they might as well have arrived on the yard wearing a ski mask i felt so robbed of my hard earned cash that i was nearly in tears :( i can't afford to spend this amount of money every two weeks , don't get me wrong i love my horse and i want him right and am happy to pay for a good qualified person to sort him out but this just doesn't seem right

i am going to cancel his next visit as i have already made my mind up that he is ripping me off but getting round to my questions , what should i expect a chiropractor to do ?

i understand a horses pelvis can't be out and it has something to do with the muscle , can anyone explain what is happening in english ?
there is very little if anything wrong with my horse , although he may well now be lame as he dropped his back leg he kicked himself and hurt his other leg


also there is a equine physio in my area that i have a little more faith in , would he be of any help to this sort of problem ?
or do they all do different things ?
i'm very confused by it all :( i have tried to ring my vet for advise but she is on holiday

thanks for reading all this :)
 
I only use an ACPAT physio who is qualified for horses and people .
The one I use works closely with our vets and sends my vet a report after the visit.
My physio takes forty minutes to an hour or more to assess and treat a horse .
The regular checks are the shortest as there's often not much going on.
 
thank you
the person i used is a registered equine chiro and has quite an impressive website , i checked before i let them come out , the person that recomended them said i needed a chiro not a physio as they do different things

i really wish i'd asked on here first instead of wasting £80 :(
 
£80 ekkk .
My physio who trained as a human physio first then trained over several years for animals ( she does all sorts ) charges £52 .( don't pay much travel though as she lives close )
If one of my horses experiences issues like you describe my first call would be the vet .
I like the vet to look first because of the risk of a physio removing compensation pain muddying the waters .
The physio then assess the horse this will include watching the horse move on the hard and on a surface and on grass ( no chance of that at the moment ) it may include lunging on a hard surface being lunged in a saddle and ridden .
They then go over the whole horse in the stable treat any thing they find , advise on future work and exercises ridden and unridden that the horse should do.
You ought to come away from the session with a clear understanding of what's been found what's been done about it and what you need to do in the future .
The physio ought record exactly what they found and they use this to inform the vet of what they have found and to refer to in the future when they see the horse again .
 
it was £40 a session and he's been twice
he did scribble something on a note pad

i didn't get the vet out as there is very little if anything wrong with him
iv'e had saddle issues which are being sorted out so he did have a sore back at the back of the saddle

well he ain't coming back out thats for sure :(
 
Agree with Goldenstar speak to your vet about a physio, they will look at your horse moving his posture and work from that, they sometimes give you stuff to do to help the process along, my gelding had extensive physio after foreleg lameness, he was so one sided afterwards it really did help straighten him up and get him using it again properly.
 
That's shocking!
Luckily we have a lady at the yard that practises McTimoney, Angela Moore, she's brilliant! She first did my horse last summer when he went wrong, after a session and a new saddle he was back to normal, if not better.
I then had him looked at just before Christmas so he went nearly 6 months.
She charges £45 per session, not sure on fuel supplement though, and she will work on them head to toe and is at least half an hour. She will fill in a report sheet and tell you what your horse should be doing over the next week.
 
Agree with Goldenstar.

My chiro charges £50 a session including call out, but she's with me at least 45 mins.
She watches him walk/trot up in the sand school when on the concrete drive looking for how well they're tracking up, swinging through their ribcage and back etc.
She then asks me to turn him in tight circles to see how well he's crossing behind and then makes me back in up for a good ten or so steps.
We discuss any problems I have but usually she's just there for a check up.
Then she does a general check in the stable, sees how well he is flexing and works on any problem areas. She finishes up with a general massage and repeats flexing exercises.

Finally, she talks me through any exercises she recommends as follow up work and answers any questions.

The whole time she's talking me through what she's doing, we're discussing any issues I may have had and why and I ALWAYS come away feeling entirely happy.

This guy sounds thoroughly unprofessional and useless. Such a shame you've lost £80 here. See you vet about the pelvis and ask around your local area and your vet for word of mouth recommendations if you need a chiro again. Good luck x
 
Oh how I hate people like this.

I am a physio (not ACPAT), but work how Goldenstar has described. Any decent therapist should consider the horse as a whole- my appointments take on average 1.5 hours. I could be faster, but some techniques take time, and I hate clock-watching.

Misaligned pelvises are common, and personally I am not a fan of large manipulations in that area. I have not yet needed to do one - more often than not a horses pelvis will have sorted itself out once I've finished working around the head and poll, and, so far, always once I've finished with the back. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, please be assured that there are decent therapists out there who will do their utmost to do well by you and your horse.
 
I've had so many physios/chiropractors out over the past 2 years - one did McTimmoney, whereas i found others were a lot more hands on, which for my own benefit i like as at least it looks like they're do something & you can see the horse react!
None of my treatments have ever been that short! I last had Emma Gay out, a physio, and she watched my mare being lunged, trotted, walked & assessed her as a whole, she was really good and was here for at least an hour. I also didn't mention that I thought my mare's front-right was a bit stiff when she came out for a 2nd time (i like doing this - if you mention all your horses problems, chances are they'll magically find something there!) and she did notice it, which i was very impressed with as it was pretty slight.
I've also used Gavin Scofield (an osteopath) who was highly recommended to me. Like anything, it depends on who the person is & it sounds like you got very unlucky. I always like someone who clearly isn't just after your money & is honest, I'd hate to end up paying for treatments I don't need because they're not cheap!
 
Horses developing sore backs and saddle problems often stem from hock or stifle issues. The horse develops these secondary back and saddle issues due to compensating for hind limb lameness. It's often difficult to detect hind limb lameness unless you have an expert eye for it. I'd advise getting a good equine vet to thoroughly check him over before throwing anymore money away. Physios etc all have their place, but a good equine vet is always my first port of call.
 
sorry for the delay in reply i had to dash back to work

This was a McTimoney Chiropractor

i had expected more along the lines of what your all posting , thank you all for your replies ill post exactly what happened this morning
as i really do feel ripped off now !
i had thought i was over reacting this morning but obviously not ,i now can't quite believe i handed my money over but i think i was a little gob smacked :(

he got out the car (10.38am) and asked to see the horse trot up
this took place down a slop full of potholes that i was avoiding so even valegro wouldn't have appeared sound !
he then had a look around him and asked how he'd been/any improvment since last visit (two weeks ago)
i replied no difference as there was very little wrong anyway
he then walked around his hind end and fiddled him about to stand him square and said his "pelvis has slipped again"

he lifted a hind leg and got me to hold it up while he stood on a create and pushed down on his quarters while i let the leg drop to the floor
daft horse swung his leg sideways and kicked himself in the fetlock when i let go of the leg and as my horse held that leg up as he'd given himself quite a bang , he sniggered and muttered he was lame on that leg anyway erm !
no he wasn't because i'd checked before he came !

he then got up onto his create and tweeked along his spine from withers to pelvis , then got a car key and ran it down his bum on either side , horse reacted by lifting his back and stepping under himself
then he got down and spent a few seconds tweaking at his poll ,then sharply moved his head to the side and let go

then he answered his phone (10.46am)
he hung up the phone and i asked what i should do with the horse now and he said "just walk him for a few days"
then he held out his hand and announced he was coming back in two weeks to see him again
he then got back in his car at 10.49am

^that is exactly what happened this morning

my horse is now sore on his back end this afternoon
 
Scatterbrain said:
Horses developing sore backs and saddle problems often stem from hock or stifle issues. The horse develops these secondary back and saddle issues due to compensating for hind limb lameness. It's often difficult to detect hind limb lameness unless you have an expert eye for it. I'd advise getting a good equine vet to thoroughly check him over before throwing anymore money away. Physios etc all have their place, but a good equine vet is always my first port of call.
Click to expand...

hi
i should of really posted the whole story as it sound like my horse has a serious problem iv'e not got the vet out for and he hasn't :o
i got a new dressage saddle in sept last year (pro fitted) and my horse didn't seem happy in it and on checking its was a terrible fit :( but thats a whole other sorry story

he hasn't really had any problems apart from being a bit of a spooky , stressy idiot due to weather , being stabled longer so i thought it would be nice for him to have an Equine touch session to chill him out a bit , that person recomended this chiro
 
Angelish - you're in the NE aren't you. Lee Clark is always my first port of call for anything. Even for a routine once over he spent a good hour checking my mare over and talked all the way through it too. I've been to a few demos of his as well. He works alongside vets.

http://www.thephysio-clinic.co.uk/the-equine-physiotherapy-clinic/

Sorry but wouldn't touch Mctimoney/Bowen etc etc with a barge pole.
 
Custard Cream said:
Angelish - you're in the NE aren't you. Lee Clark is always my first port of call for anything. Even for a routine once over he spent a good hour checking my mare over and talked all the way through it too. I've been to a few demos of his as well. He works alongside vets.

http://www.thephysio-clinic.co.uk/the-equine-physiotherapy-clinic/

Sorry but wouldn't touch Mctimoney/Bowen etc etc with a barge pole.
Click to expand...

hi thanks :)
i am planning on getting lee out he also works with my vets, he came and looked at a horse i knew a while ago and i was impressed with the change in that horse so he would have been my first choice normally but this other person was recomended and i kind of took there word for it :o
(expensive) lesson learned eh !

i'm going to let my horse have a break from strangers coming and poking and prodding him for a week or two and just hack/see how he is as there was very little wrong in the first place
then get lee out to start again with him and see what he thinks

horse is sore this afternoon and his mud fever has blown up :( so i may have to get a vet out in the morning anyway
 
Get a qualified practitioner.....I certainly wouldn't use this person again, having 'dropped' his leg to his further injury. If your horse needs a course of physio, check your insurance policy as you may be entitled to claim for a course of 'alternative' therapies.
 
el_Snowflakes said:
Get a qualified practitioner.....I certainly wouldn't use this person again, having 'dropped' his leg to his further injury. If your horse needs a course of physio, check your insurance policy as you may be entitled to claim for a course of 'alternative' therapies.
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i will be canceling his next visit he is not going to be getting any where near my horse again don't worry :)
but i do have to say that he is a fully qualified chiro in humans , horses and dogs
i did check all this before i allowed him to come out but i really wished i'd saved my money by asking on here first
but when you don't know about these things you take peoples advice that you think would know about these things
he was highly recomended :(
 
el_Snowflakes said:
Can I ask why you wouldn't use a McTimoney practitioner? Curious as I have heard a lot of positive experiences about them.
Click to expand...

she's in my area she might have had dealings with the same one as me :)
enough to put anyone off ;)
it is a shame though if one person is putting people off using a whole method as i must admit that after this i will also be reluctant to use a McTimoney practitione again
 
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I'll be honest - I've seen a couple in action. One clicked her fingers all down a horses neck and then fist bashed down it's neck and then announced 'it's pelvis is out'. Utter load of *******s if you ask me.

Plenty of people out there taking advantage of horse owners wanting to do their best by their steed and it drives me mad.
 
I've had mctimoney, Bowen, physio and shiatsu done on my horses. As long as the person is qualified, some practitioners are a lot better than others!
 
In all the years I have had horses I have only ever had 5 Physiotherapist/ Chiropractor and even Gavin Schofield. Of those there are only 3 I would let near my horses. The Physiotherapist and Gavin were waste of money. The others I would be happy to recommend to anyone. Each spent time taking a good history ,watching my horse move ,discuss what the problems were and then treating which ever horse they had come to see. One was a McTimoney practitioner and is now a veterinary Physiotherapist and has treated many International horses including the Queens horses she is highly qualified in all aspects of rehabilitation.. One is Equine Veterinary Chiropractor as well as a vet and the third one is a Human and Equine Osteopath as well as other thinks.

I think it is very important to have a responsible person that cares for your horse.
 
Mmmm, £80 sounds a helluva lot IMO to pay for a visit; plus you felt cheated as they were there for such a short time plus obviously left you wondering what the treatment was all about, which is IMO unprofessional.

OP, I'd be inclined, before getting someone else, to ask a few more questions PRIOR to the appointment. i.e. length of time (anticipated) that the practitioner will be there; what results they might achieve and how many treatments it might take to achieve this........ and whether any "routine" appointments are cheaper and/or when they will be required.

You might also ask the person to supply far more details about their qualification & professional practice & affilation. Particularly you need to ask where they qualified, with whom they trained/had work-experience; and exactly what their qualifications are - and whether they're on any professional listings (and then go check out to make sure that they ARE). Also, very importantly, you need to ask them whether they hold appropriate professional indemnity insurance. You could also ask them what areas they specialise in and whether they have any clients that would be prepared to give you a reference.

Sorry, but think you've been well had :(

BUT......... please don't let it discourage you from seeking out a professional if you feel your horse needs it. Also........ IF your horse needs physio/chiropractic etc., then so you YOU. I'm lucky in that I have someone that does both of us - and its really important for you as the rider to be given the same attention as your horse as un-levelness in the horse can be caused by un-levelness in the rider, and vice versa, and if you don't sort the two of you out at the same time you can easily be wasting your money; so if you do get someone reputable, don't be surprised if they say this to you, and don't think they're trying to get you to shell out yet more money, as a true professional and someone that is good in their field basically wants to sort out any problems which are there and put in place a programme to ensure they don't recur.

I'd be inclined to ask around in a wide circle of horsey acquaintances to see if anyone you know can recommend a person, and if a name keeps coming up....... well, then you'll know what to do. Similarly if a name comes up frequently that people are less than happy with!!
 
I agree with you Wench,

I think chiros get a lot of flack for their rather 'violent' approach. I use a qualified chiro myself & they appear quite 'rough' with people too. However, I cant rate chiropractic highly enough. Theres a lot of cracking and crunching but It gives a lot of relief & can really increase range of motion.

Saying a horses pelvis is 'out' is quite a generic term used by chiros in my opinion for a horse who has limited flexibility in the low back/pelvis area, likely due to the workloads we place on horses which is unnatural. The manipulation techniques carried out are similar to what is done in humans. I think chiro absolutely has a place & physiotherapy is fantastic for building muscles to support joints etc to prevent further injury & to work in conjunction with chiro.

I have an appointment with a McTimmoney practitioner soon (for my horse) & Im looking forward to seeing their techniques.

Ps, By feeling my neck, my chiro can tell me whats going on further down my spine so I wouldn't discount all chiros Custard Cream. If your unsure of anything ask the chiro, Im sure a good one will be happy that you are interested and take time to explain to you.......I know mine does- He knows Im very interested in the subject and we could chat all day!!
 
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All I can add is that a) my Physio picked up on all the same things as the thermal imaging I had done 2 days before, she spends about an hour and I was very impressed with how she explained things.
B) as a human, I find chiropractic treatment hugely beneficial to myself, provided I then do the stretches etc to maintain my corrected posture. Some of the manipulations are quick and aggressive but he has helped with stuff my gp had no clue about, like pain and loss of strength in my hands. I also have a prolapsed disc and visits to him are the only thing that help with the pain. So based on my own experiences, I do understand the pelvis being 'out'. In my case it means the back pain is so severe that my body attempts to reduce the pressure on the disc by modifying my movement patterns, creating a twist. My muscles then tighten up to hold it there and protect my back, so I stand with one hip bone an inch further forwards than the other. I imagine the horses pelvis being 'out' is a similar compensation process, muscles pulling on ligaments on bones to move to a position of comfort to relieve discomfort elsewhere. Just my thoughts!
 
I had a mctimoney chiropractor come to my mare when I got her, highly recommended blah blah - nothing wrong except 'her pelvis was out'. sorted and told the issues I had with her not bending properly were only schooling issues. after a massive broncing fit I got a physio out (registered etc - asked vet permission before coming) who found a heap of issues with her and after some work - not only did my mare bend, but she lay down for the first time since i'd owned her (nice horse shaped dent in bed!).

Everyone has different experiences of different types of treatment (and I have chiro on me and love it) but for my horse I wouldn't touch a chiro ever again and will stick with a registered physio.
 
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