equine podiatrists - anyone use them?

[darkhorse123]

My cob is barefoot and trimmed by my farrier - never any problems, he was done by a farrier before i bought him and so i carried on with this

Ive never heard of equine podiatrists before - just wondering what your thoughts are.

So much choice and differing opinions from these people, barefoot trimmers or farriers

 

[Oberon]

They are trimmers taught via KC LaPierre usually. Like all, there are good and bad. I use UKNHCP trimmers and get a better quality of work than i did with the farriers i used.

 

[tallyho!]

I have an EP who is lovely, very knowledgable and saved my horses life! The main difference between ep's and uknhcp trimmers is the founding body as Oberon says. Some things differ in my observations. Now that I have started trimming myself, I value both schools of thought but wish they would combine and be as one.

 

[EllenJay]

I have an EP who is lovely, very knowledgable and saved my horses life! The main difference between ep's and uknhcp trimmers is the founding body as Oberon says. Some things differ in my observations. Now that I have started trimming myself, I value both schools of thought but wish they would combine and be as one.

I used to use an EP (for 5 years)- lovely lady, but after a bout of lammy she totally missed that my boy had a rotated pedal bone, even though I told her he was very unhappy unless he was on soft ground. So most of you would say "you can only diagnose that with an x-ray". But when I called in a standard farrier, he compared both front feet and told me - with out x-rays - that near front - rotated pedal bone.

Would not touch another EP if you paid me.

 

[Angua2]

After 2 visits from an EP, I am going back to my farrier. It wasn't working for me having the EP because I would be fuming for at least 2 weeks after their visit. Dunno what it was but they just wound me up the wrong way which ment I resented the cost both time and financial. I will be going back to the yard farrier who I didn't have a problem with in the first place. Only got a trimmer as I thought I was doing the best for my horse.

 

[jinglejoys]

I use one.Gave up with Farriers as they either never turned up on time,used to always bing a bouncy dog and didn't know how to do anything other than a pasture trim or that mules are trimmed differantly,add to that that they were always rushing to the next job and I did ot like my mule jabbed in the side with a rasp,I prefer the one to one appraoachwhere everything is explained etc...and my mules like her!

 

[MrsElle]

I had a loan horse who's owner insisted I use an EP. I was horrified at the state of horses feet after the EP had finished with them. I did keep banging on about correct farrier trims v EP trims to the owner, who eventually let me have my way and the horses feet were sorted out by my then fab remedial farrier.

Would never use an EP again. BTW, she belonged to this governing body, that governing body and had done course after course after course. She was still crap though

 

[Posa]

I use an EP for both of my horses, have been using an EP for 5 or so years now.

 

[SuperCoblet]

Yes, and never again.
All we had for 1 year is a lamanitic horse with no solid hoof wall because it wa hacked away that much. Said horse was not sound throughout that year and still not right another year later.
Her poor hooves were hacked away at that dramatically she probibally only had a few mm's of wall left. We got our farrier back out who could barely put any shoes on there was that little wall but he had to put something on she was that lame without her shoes.
For that reason I don't think I'll go barefoot again unless they were already barefoot.

 

[frankie8]

I've just started using one for my horse and think she is fantastic, speaks total sense which translates into her work.

 

[muff747]

Yes, and never again.
All we had for 1 year is a lamanitic horse with no solid hoof wall because it wa hacked away that much. Said horse was not sound throughout that year and still not right another year later.
Her poor hooves were hacked away at that dramatically she probibally only had a few mm's of wall left. We got our farrier back out who could barely put any shoes on there was that little wall but he had to put something on she was that lame without her shoes.
For that reason I don't think I'll go barefoot again unless they were already barefoot.

This may not have been the fault of the EP, there are many reasons why your horse was still laminitic, not just the way her feet were trimmed.

 

[SuperCoblet]

Muff- it was not the fact she was lamanitic, she always has been. It was the fact he did not cater to her needs and trimmed far too much far too soon which made her terribly lame and could barely walk, he insisted it would get better, trimmed some more off, still lame, trimmed a bit more, horse in agony.
He really did speak sense as to why they should be bare and yes, their feet looked brilliant but it was too far with the amount they trim.

 

[Countrychic]

It drives me mad when people use eps and say it's because farriers are unreliable. Yes some farriers are unreliable but not all and often if they are unreliable there is a reason, bad payer, difficult owner, poor facilities etc. If my physio was unreliable I wouldn't start using an unqualified back man.
And breathe

 

[intouch]

I think you'll find that someone who has been through the intense - and expensive - training offered by EPAUK http://www.eptrain.co.uk/ will be pretty knowlegable and reliable. Read part 5 of this document http://www.epauk.org/position_statement_feb_09.php
I think perhaps the people above who have been disappointed have not been using qualified EPs.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It drives me mad when people use eps and say it's because farriers are unreliable. Yes some farriers are unreliable but not all and often if they are unreliable there is a reason, bad payer, difficult owner, poor facilities etc. If my physio was unreliable I wouldn't start using an unqualified back man.
And breathe

Hear, hear!

I have changed farriers in the past because I was not satisfied with the work of one in particular. But I changed to a better farrier, not to some self-styled EP (or 'barefoot trimmer').
IMO it is the responsibility of EVERY horse owner to know enough about horses' hooves to know whether their farrier is doing a good job or not. Although I do not expect owners to be able to dress their horses' feet themselves. It seems to me that far too many people accept the word of a range of 'professionals' unquestioningly, instead of using their own judgement.

 

['S'teamed]

Yes....but mine's a bit "Retro"

He's called a Farrier

 

[Zimzim]

I use a farrier (both horses barefoot) - hes always on time, very professsional with my horses, comes out if theres a problem, horses feet always look good and they both do really well. If you have a good farrier they should know all about your horses feet not just about putting on metal shoes!!!

 

[Snipe]

My farrier is also an EP, so I guess I use both - at the same time

 

[maggiesmum]

This thread just goes to show that there are good and bad trimmers just as there are good and bad in anything... the thing that strikes me is that people say I tried a trimmer and it didn't work, i'd never touch one with a barge pole, they are the devils spawn etc etc

But if you're unhappy with your farrier you get a new one, if you're unhappy with your vet you get a new one..... but it seems that if you're unfortunate enough to have found a 'bad' trimmer then all trimmers are instantly labelled as bad - I think so far on this thread i've seen self styled and unqualified - and dismissed to be replaced by a farrier rather than looking for a better trimmer.
There are very good farriers out there BUT if there were no bad ones then there would be no call for trimmers, the bad farriers that send unsupervised apprentices rather than go themselves, don't give out any dietary advice for laminitics, don't suggest shoe holidays, try and make horses feet fit the shoes rather than the other way around are one of the reasons that the barefoot community is growing fast!

 

[darkhorse123]

Interesting replies - ty all

 

[MissMistletoe]

It drives me mad when people use eps and say it's because farriers are unreliable. Yes some farriers are unreliable but not all and often if they are unreliable there is a reason, bad payer, difficult owner, poor facilities etc. If my physio was unreliable I wouldn't start using an unqualified back man.
And breathe

That is a very good point.

I use an EP, he would only take off what was needed on the horse's feet,never any drastic trimming. He has monitored and taken into account any gait abnormailties and imbalances over the past couple of years and has totally transformed their feet.

 

[muff747]

My trimmer is very well qualified and wouldn't take off so much that it made my gelding sore, just enough - but then I began to have problems with what I thought was low grade laminitis after moving from a yard on high ground to one in a valley.
Diet plays a massive part in keeping a barefoot horse sound and the amount of grass they are allowed to have. I struggled for two years to find out that apart from eliminating almost every bit of sugar/starch from his diet and no grass at all, he was still footy. I know it wasn't the trims causing the footiness because he could be fine for a week or two after the trims and then go footy.
I eventually moved back to another yard on high ground (different grass) and after months of gradually building up time in the field, I found he can graze and stay sound. Meanwhile, he is still trimmed by the same podiatrist who attended for the last three/four years.
So not trimmers are bad trimmers. On the other hand I knew a remedial farrier who did a mixture of shoeing and barefoot trimming who regularly lamed horses every time he attended, and just when it was beginning to come sound it was due another trim/shoeing - so there are good and not so good (bad) in both trades. It's not fair to generalise and say you would never trust an EP again, just as it would not be fair to say don't trust any farriers.

 

[EllenJay]

I think you'll find that someone who has been through the intense - and expensive - training offered by EPAUK http://www.eptrain.co.uk/ will be pretty knowlegable and reliable. Read part 5 of this document http://www.epauk.org/position_statement_feb_09.php
I think perhaps the people above who have been disappointed have not been using qualified EPs.

No - my EP was very well qualified and is still practising. Still would not go back to using her.

 

[dressagecrazy]

I've used an DAEP she was very good with the horses hooves & enabled the horses to go barefoot easily.
But she took forever & I mean forever, it was an all day job to do 4 horses. The horses got bored & cranky as you would expect.
The final straw came when she kicked one of the horses after he reacted to her pinching him, she was a loon & had her marching orders there & then. She was also un-confident around horses

My next trimmer was an EP & left the hooves in a condition I was far from happy with. This trimmer was also very un-confident around horses.

I'm now using an AANHCP trimmer who is great, in just one trim the horses looked so much better. She knew her job & is confident has dealt with young & old horses, & rides it makes a big differance as my other two trimmers didn't ride.
She also didn't mess about & had 5 horses done quickly & they where properly done even my yearling who was a bitch as she is funny with new people.
I'm actually looking forward to the horses next trim

 

[Oberon]

My personal feeling is that studying with only one school can be detrimental.

Signing up to a school in order to get the qualification is one thing...but I believe it's just as important to travel around and learn from as many different people as possible.

That includes the good and the bad - then you can objectively decide what makes sense in terms of theory and you are not just following one guru and one method.

The best trimmers I've seen have studied a little bit with everyone....and continue to do so years later.

I've read texts by La Pierre, Ramey, Jackson and Strasser.....and I've poked holes in all of them (although I'd believe Ramey a little more than the others). No one guru has the answer.

Unfortunately, this doesn't help the owners out there to know who to trust

 

[Countrychic]

This thread just goes to show that there are good and bad trimmers just as there are good and bad in anything... the thing that strikes me is that people say I tried a trimmer and it didn't work, i'd never touch one with a barge pole, they are the devils spawn etc etc

But if you're unhappy with your farrier you get a new one, if you're unhappy with your vet you get a new one..... but it seems that if you're unfortunate enough to have found a 'bad' trimmer then all trimmers are instantly labelled as bad - I think so far on this thread i've seen self styled and unqualified - and dismissed to be replaced by a farrier rather than looking for a better trimmer.
There are very good farriers out there BUT if there were no bad ones then there would be no call for trimmers, the bad farriers that send unsupervised apprentices rather than go themselves, don't give out any dietary advice for laminitics, don't suggest shoe holidays, try and make horses feet fit the shoes rather than the other way around are one of the reasons that the barefoot community is growing fast!

The reason the barefoot community is growing fast is not necessarily because there are so many bad farriers, it is probably because there will always be people who want to feel they are keeping their horses " naturally" and they enjoy the feeling that they are right and others are wrong. I also genuinely believe that a great number of them enjoy "healing" their horses and if it means they can't ride for a year because their horse is too footsore to even make it to the field all the better.
Yes there are bad farriers but they have a governing body they can be reported to and disciplined by. They have spent 5 years studying, the courses range hugely so you don't get a universal qualification. They have been trained how to balance horses feet and put shoes on so they can use whichever method suits that horse best unlike the trimmers, if they can't keep a horse barefoot they lose a client. They can discuss a huge range of things with customers including diet, conformation, remedial work but they don't feel the need to ram their opinions down peoples throats and are probably sick of not being listened to. I find if someone asks and wants to listen you can learn a huge amount from a farrier. Sometimes it's put across rough and ready but most of them have a great deal of horsey knowledge

 

[darkhorse123]

The reason the barefoot community is growing fast is not necessarily because there are so many bad farriers, it is probably because there will always be people who want to feel they are keeping their horses " naturally" and they enjoy the feeling that they are right and others are wrong. I also genuinely believe that a great number of them enjoy "healing" their horses and if it means they can't ride for a year because their horse is too footsore to even make it to the field all the better.
Yes there are bad farriers but they have a governing body they can be reported to and disciplined by. They have spent 5 years studying, the courses range hugely so you don't get a universal qualification. They have been trained how to balance horses feet and put shoes on so they can use whichever method suits that horse best unlike the trimmers, if they can't keep a horse barefoot they lose a client. They can discuss a huge range of things with customers including diet, conformation, remedial work but they don't feel the need to ram their opinions down peoples throats and are probably sick of not being listened to. I find if someone asks and wants to listen you can learn a huge amount from a farrier. Sometimes it's put across rough and ready but most of them have a great deal of horsey knowledge

See as a first time horse owner who admits to knowing nothing about feet i agree with this - i use what i think is common sense and think id prefer advice and work done by someone who has trained in that area for 4 or 5 years, learning from principles used by horse owners and experts for centuries before them.
I watched a ep work at my yard recently and she was very "self important" - put me off when she basically said anyone who doesnt use them dont care about their horses - I was gobsmacked when she said if you just want to ride, chuck your horse in field and get another when he cant do his job anymore then you dont need her!
Must admit I also rolled eyes when she started spouting about her knowledge and abilities as an animal communicator

Maybe Im old fashioned and sceptical

 

[maggiesmum]

The reason the barefoot community is growing fast is not necessarily because there are so many bad farriers, it is probably because there will always be people who want to feel they are keeping their horses " naturally" and they enjoy the feeling that they are right and others are wrong. I also genuinely believe that a great number of them enjoy "healing" their horses and if it means they can't ride for a year because their horse is too footsore to even make it to the field all the better.
Yes there are bad farriers but they have a governing body they can be reported to and disciplined by. They have spent 5 years studying, the courses range hugely so you don't get a universal qualification. They have been trained how to balance horses feet and put shoes on so they can use whichever method suits that horse best unlike the trimmers, if they can't keep a horse barefoot they lose a client. They can discuss a huge range of things with customers including diet, conformation, remedial work but they don't feel the need to ram their opinions down peoples throats and are probably sick of not being listened to. I find if someone asks and wants to listen you can learn a huge amount from a farrier. Sometimes it's put across rough and ready but most of them have a great deal of horsey knowledge

Nothing like a non-biased balanced view!

 

[barehoofhannah]

The UKNHCP (as far as I'm aware) does not have a set 'guru' or trim, not to be confused with the AANHCP (Jaime Jackson) and neither does The Equine Sciences Academy. I don't know about other training schools, EP's I think are KC Pierre. I know both UKNHCP and ESA are very much whole horse covering a variety of different areas which impact on the hooves.

The national occupational standards for both farriery and barefoot trimmers are very similar in what they expect students to know apart from the metal work bit (http://www.lantra.co.uk/Downloads/Standards-qualifications/NOS/NOS-documents.aspx ) *

The ESA's course content are set well above these minimums (can't comment on farriery training or other barefoot schools syllabus) however you also first need to get through their full training, then the real learning journey starts, continue to be open to ideas and keep up professional development, otherwise you may not be a good example of that training body.

I'm training with the ESA and I'm struggling with the depth of the info required for course work (and only on first module!) and I'm uni educated inc an MBA ... But it'll take a long while for it to all click, to complete the course, and only make complete sense through loads of practice, so if someone saw me assess and trim my horse currently I probably wouldn't give the best example of someone who had qualified through this training body.

I hope the above is a useful contribution.

Best wishes
Hannah
**

 

[Oberon]

The UKNHCP (as far as I'm aware) does not have a set 'guru' or trim

Not officially, no