Escapee dog keeps chasing sheep

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Fat_Pony

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We have a rescue terrier cross that we have had for about 6 weeks now. She is a year old (birthday 9th sept) and I took her to her first training class on Sunday. She has not yet been spayed but will be ASAP.

she is generally well behaved at home, but occasionally just jumps the 4 ft fence and runs off. She then goes into neighbouring fields and chases the sheep. I have spoken to the farmer today who witnessed her latest chase. So far she hasn't got one, but I am seriously worried she will. Farmer said she thinks it's just thrill of the chase as she just stands a few metres away and barks when they stop running. She also chases cattle, but doesn't chase my horses after one of them turned and tried to bite her when she was running around. I have asked the farmer if he has some rams she could meet - good or bad idea?

obviously I do my best to keep her contained. We rent our place so can't change the fence. I am thinking of putting a line of electric wire along the top of it (although it'd have to be temporary) to teach her that jumping over is bad (she is parsons terrier size so no idea how she manages it). Do you think that'd work?

i think the issue is made worse by the fact that we can't let her off the lead when out for a walk as she just runs off. I have no idea how to stop this. Her recall is nn existent . We've been doing training at home and recall is good, but as soon as we go further afield it is a different story. She is walked for at least an hour a day and my OH also takes her for runs.

any help guys?
 
You need to 100 percent secure her at all time :( So either set up a run or only out supervised.
If she chases the wrong farmers sheep she will be shot. If she lived where I do she would already be a dead dog tbh ,sounds like you were lucky with your farmer. I wouldnt push that luck

Electric wire wont contain her if she's jumping it clear... a electric collar might work depending on her personality but again if it fails or the hunt instinct outstrips her desire to not get a buzz shock you could end up with a dead dog.

Also she doesnt have to physically touch the sheep in order to do harm to the sheep.Running them and stress is enough to cause miscarriages and other problems as sheep are delicate beasties.

A ram might work, might not.The chase instinct is fairly high and being afraid of a animal that stands its ground is a different kettle of fish to a running lamb or ewe.

Containing her properly on your property and lead walks would be my suggestion tbh.
 
The problem is we are not allowed to change our fencing. So if she escapes one more time we will have no choice to take her back to rescue. Like you said, she could be shot, so I'd rather she had a chance of a good home elsewhere than be shot. She is let out in the garden supervised, but it makes ****** all difference. For days she will be perfect then one day she just turns and jumps the fence. She does scrabble over the top, so maybe electric will put her off.

I am at a loss with what to do with her. It is highly stressful constantly having to contain her and I really don't think it is good for her being shut up and only walked on a lead??? I don't know - she is my first dog so I am not sure how to handle it.
 
I would be very surprised if she would survive the battering of a ram TBH - they can quite easily crack the skull of an unknown rival ram if the fancy takes them. I can't imagine a terrier would recover from that sort of battering.

She doesn't sound like an ideal first time dog for an inexperienced new owner. Living in a country environment without the ability to change your fencing is just making the whole retraining exercise almost impossible, for you and for her. I don't know who I feel more sorry for, the little terrier or you.

I would return her to the rescue you got her from, an explain fully what her issues are so she has a chance for them to find her a more suitable home.
 
If you're really committed to keeping this dog then you need to act...... PDQ, because yes you're right, she COULD get shot. She certainly would around here if she was found more than once in a field where there were sheep.

Appreciate your problem re. renting/fencing situation, BUT I'm afraid that if YOUR dog is doing this, YOU are responsible. Full stop.

If it was me, I'd ask the farmer (who's obviously been very tolerant - up till now) if he's got any sheep with horns on. Ask him if he'd put them as tightly as possible into a pen, and then let your dog in until she learns to leave sheep alone. This is the old fashioned, time-honoured way, and I'm sorry if it sounds barbaric and I can just imagine the lily-livered hands going up in protest about it......... but this is the best thing you can do to put a dog off sheep.

But the REAL fundamental problem, methinks, is the fact that she's in the garden and can and does jump over the fence. Somehow you've got to address that. Basically you are going to have to be zero-tolerant, i.e. she does NOT at any time go out into the garden without being on a lead of some description until she learns to come back to call - which is really a training issue. Period.

I'd either get a dog training professional to help you with basic obedience, coming to call, basic stuff like "sit" and "stay", OR find some local dog training classes and go along. The dog basically is in obvious need of some obedience training....... and you need to either sort this out and get your dog trained ASAP, OR hand the dog back. No other options TBH.
 
Stand off insulators or even safer a run for when you are not in reach of her & a log on a lead for when you are around.
 
Our garden is enclosed by 4 feet high post and rail fencing, with small mesh chicken wire fixed to it (whole height).

Our JRT learnt to scramble up the chicken wire and launch himself off the top and away. We stopped his antics by putting an inner perimeter of electric rabbit netting all the way along the area he was escaping from ( it took 2 x 50 m rolls of netting). We electrified it with the mains energiser we use for the horse fencing, donned a pair of Marigolds and held his nose to it. Only had to do it once!

I don't think that running a strand of electric wire along the top of your fence would work as the dog wouldn't earth it, would need paws on the ground and to be touching the wire simultaneously to shock her. Depends on how she facilitates her escape.

I feel for you OP, it's horrible when you can't keep them in.
 
Most of the advice above is sound but I would not try to train a terrier to ignore sheep by the methods described! Apart from anything else, it is probably against the law! Some terriers would just become convinced that all sheep are barstewards and want to see them dead!

The first thing you have to do (IF you want to keep the dog, and not many would) is to secure it so it can't escape. If you can't manage fencing an alternative might be a collar and a running chain. The dog is on a shortish chain which runs up and down a taut wire, obviously with access to a nice dry kennel at one end, a water bowl, and no items the chain may get snagged on.

Next, go and see your farmer with a bottle of whiskey and apologise again. He sounds like a nice chap and someone worth cultivating.

Ask if he can tell you when he is next putting sheep through a race and describe the following cunning plan. (A race is a very narrow passage farmers use so they can handle them one at a time. The sheep will leave the race at a gallop!).

You will stand a few yards away and back from the end of the race so you are facing the rear end of the sheep as they exit at speed and run back to the flock. You will have your dog on a short lead. Have a small whippy switch and hold it down beside your leg. Every time he shows interest in a sheep running away from him, tap him once smartly on the nose. If you like, you can say "Leave" or "No", but you don't really need to say anything. It's not you causing the unpleasantness but his looking at the sheep! (Trust me, that is dog logic). After a dozen or so sheep, he will anticipate the tap on the nose and begin to look away from them. He is beginning to realise that looking at sheep is not a good idea. He will turn his head away.

That is the first part of the lesson. The next step is to walk him on the lead through a field with sheep in it. Watch his behaviour carefully. If he pricks up his ears and even looks with interest at a sheep -- smack! Say nothing. It wasn't you. You are a nice kind person. It was that sheep which has the power to smack him on the nose when he so much as looks at it! Remember, small whippy hazel or willow wand tapped smartly across the nose. It won't cause any damage but they really don't like it!

Been there, done that, got the T shirt. Good luck!

(No posts of protest from the fluffy bunnies, please, as I'd always prefer to do this than have a dog shot. But, frankly, the short answer is to return the dog. It may not be attacking sheep yet but that is the next stage).
 
Does she need to be touching the ground to be zapped by electric then? She is probably in contact with fence , but certainly not the ground.

She is going to weekly classes and we are doing training at home. It is going well at home, but recall away from home is non existent and I am not sure how to deal with that. She goes out on a very long line that we leave trailing and can stand on if need be/always have hold of the end, so we know she can't get away, but she doesn't come back when called despite being perfect at home in our large garden. The outside world is much more exciting than treats and favorite squeaky toys.
 
ah yeah good point, yes she would need to touch the ground so you would need a physical barrier (we have to remember not to stroke the cat when he is on the fence as we have a top wire to stop the horses chewing!)
 
Always wondered how the cat walked along the top of the post and rail in the fields as we have a line of electric too. Might try a plain wire along the top - not too obvious so think we'd get away with doing that. Since she runs up it (post and rail with chicken wire) I think that might break her "ladder".

Obviously she is always on lead when out
 
You could try electrifying the chicken wire perhaps, as that would be pretty simple to do. I suspect though that it would earth out in too many places, especially if you have plants growing on it.

The electric rabbit netting has non conductive string running along the bottom to prevent earthing.
 
Fat_Pony said:
What electrify it? But it is on wooden posts and has climbing plants growing on it. Would it work?
Click to expand...

no, the wire is too thick generally- (hence the thin stuff used in polypropylene electric fence. If you have easy access to a fencer I would perhaps have an experiment. ... you could use the offset insulators lower down the fence so would touch her while on the ground. Depends on the actual jumping technique I think. Rabbit netting is usually installed on an angle so they cannot jump over it but not sure same theory works on terriers!
 
You don't electrify the fence -you earth it so touching a live wire and the fence is the same as touching a live wire & the ground. Just putting a bit of the wire mesh in the ground or weaving a wire through the mesh and putting the end in the ground should work.
 
I have a terrier which sometimes chases livestock and I'm married to a sheep farmer! He is kennelled during the day and in the house at night, I do have him in the garden now but a few years ago I wouldnt trust him at all.
He spent along time on a lead and now I use an electric collar, it is the only thing that will stop the chase instinct.
Good luck, I know what the outcome would be if he actually did damage to any of our stock.
 
I've accidentally electrified chicken wire/mesh fencing and got a shock from it, though I might be wrong as I'm stood on the ground? I run polytape around horse fields to stop horses 'leaning over for better grass' (after getting sick of replacing lots of fencing) I also run it around the chicken run which is 6 foot high chicken wire (bottom and middle height to help deter a fox) in a couple of places it came into contact with the chicken wire fencing and it has shocked me when I touched it. would this be the same for a dog (his feet would be on the floor) it was less of a shock than if I grabbed the tape, but enough that I made sure it didn't happen again! the wire does have grass at the bottom and it didn't short out so to speak. the other alternative is chicken mesh electric fencing (though may be an expensive option depending on the size of your garden)
Although it is rented could you not add to the height in some way that would be removable, even if with some effort from you, if you left? is it concrete posts or wooden? you could add an extension to each post and then some 2' panels to make the fence 6' ? I'm sure there would be a way.
then really stick to the training as you will enjoy your dog much more when you can call her back on a walk without needing a lead.
all the best!
* happy to be corrected on the electric fencing bit, it's just what happened to me!
 
If you cannot supervise her 24/7 and if you have any hardstanding or patio, buy a flatpack dog run with a roof.

Physical prevention (or an immediate consequence) is key. If she has already been 'allowed' to chase, her desire and anticipation of reward may carry her through a shock.
 
how much excersise is she getting each day?

will she chase and retrieve a ball?

speak to landlord about adding trellis to the fence-most landlords are ok if work is done properly. personally i would raise fence but have a kennel and run for when you want to leave her out and you cannot watch her.
 
She'll play with a ball in the garden, which is plenty big enough to use the ball thrower in. But away from home she is not interested.

She gets a minimum of an hour each day. I try to take her to the forest each week as can let her off here and she stays with us. She also runs 6-10 miles a couple of times a week with my OH
 
If your training isn't working away from home or class then it's not working. Look for a trainer experienced in dealing with livestock chasing who can observe her in the problem environment and teach you how to teach her.

I think you need to work on controlled exercise, not letting her off the lead for a hooley.
 
Do you guys think it would work walking her in the fields with the stock and reward her for good behaviour and/or punish the bad? Obviously on a short lead at all times. Would desensitising her work at all?
 
CaveCanem said:
If your training isn't working away from home or class then it's not working. Look for a trainer experienced in dealing with livestock chasing who can observe her in the problem environment and teach you how to teach her.

I think you need to work on controlled exercise, not letting her off the lead for a hooley.
Click to expand...

How do I find a trainer like that? Google is not being helpful, although I can find many in somerset, I'm over the other side in Kent!
 
Dry Rot's idea is the best one.

I would put it in a small pen (supervised) with an old ewe with lambs to get a good hiding. It works but is not popular if you are a bit fluffy.

Agree that you are very lucky with your farmer. I hope she hasn't caused any sheep to miscarry.
 
You could ring the trainers in Somerset for a chat and see if there is anyone they would recommend more towards your end of the country.

Dry Rot has already given advice above about walking in the field with the sheep present etc.
 
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