Eurpoean way of feeding - cant get my head around it

Stinkbomb

Stinkbomb

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 January 2007
Messages
3,974
Location
Cloud cookoo..
goldenoakmochachino.blogspot.com
I went to a horse show this weekend. There were some horses over from France and Belgium to do the show. They won everything and there is no doubt there horses looked fantastic. We stayed over for a few days and most of the horses were stabled at the Arena and we had a good chat to them about how they condition and train their horses. This is the bit i cant get my head around. Their show horses have NO grazing. They are kept in a show barn for 23 hours a day. About 8 hours of that they are tied up, no hay but access to water. The other hour they are lunged, round penned or put on a walker in two stints. They NEVER see hay or grass but get two huge bucket fulls of alfalfa, mix and beet twice a day. Thats it.

We looked in their stables at night and the horses were muzzled over night. they told us this was to stop them eating the shavings.

Now i dont give hay. Mine are out 24/7, yes on limited grazing but they have enough grass to pick on. They are fed two big feeds a day but like i said are free to graze the rest of the time.

This is how the Americans condition their show horses too. They all were famtastic animals and looked extreemly fit, but is it worth your horses health for a rosette?? I just could get my head around the way they do things. Any comments??

BTW im talking about miniature horses here :)
 
Poor little beggars! Having to muzzle them to stop them eating shavings says it all. They must be bored out of their minds. :(
 
I know nothing about show horses, be it miniature or otherwise:) but I'm ''continental'' myself and our feeding/turn out regime is completely different to UK.
The horses get minimal turn out, mainly without or with very little grass involved, hay is fairly restricted (normally about 5-6kg a day) and bucket feed is relied on for balanced nutrition. I'm used to feeding short fibre and straights.
The argument is that you can much easier control the exact calorie intake/nutritional value of your horse with bucket feed - hay/forage is fairly inconsistent in nutritional values and it is pretty much impossible to tell how much and what your horse eats whilst turned out to graze.
Since moving to UK I have tried to adapt to best of both ways, so to speak - my horses are turned out on grass, be it poorish grazing, fed ad lib forage whilst in (again, poor quality in nutritional sense) and bucket feed that is carefully chosen and weighed.
 
martlin said:
I know nothing about show horses, be it miniature or otherwise:) but I'm ''continental'' myself and our feeding/turn out regime is completely different to UK.
The horses get minimal turn out, mainly without or with very little grass involved, hay is fairly restricted (normally about 5-6kg a day) and bucket feed is relied on for balanced nutrition. I'm used to feeding short fibre and straights.
The argument is that you can much easier control the exact calorie intake/nutritional value of your horse with bucket feed - hay/forage is fairly inconsistent in nutritional values and it is pretty much impossible to tell how much and what your horse eats whilst turned out to graze.
Since moving to UK I have tried to adapt to best of both ways, so to speak - my horses are turned out on grass, be it poorish grazing, fed ad lib forage whilst in (again, poor quality in nutritional sense) and bucket feed that is carefully chosen and weighed.
Click to expand...


I agree and think this is the reason they feed like this so they can monitor exact calorie intake. They also said not feeding hay help keep their stomachs down. Do you find that European horses have a higher rate of ulcers?? ( i do appreciate that not all europeans feed like this i wasnt trying to steriotype :) )
 
What an unnatural way of feeding. Horses are designed to eat little and often, and that is completely going against the way the digestive system works.
 
I'm not sure on the ulcers tbh, I have very limited experience of them in broad sense - I have 1 ulcer horse, he is continental, however he has developed them since moving to UK...
ON another note, I have spent 25 years involved with horses and have only come across 2 cases of laminitis before my move to UK, and 1 of those cases was so called toxic lammi - caused by a steroid treatment for an unrelated injury.
In no way shape or form am I suggesting here that I have any sort of scientific evidence, it's all anecdotal, but does make you think, doesn't it?
ETS:
I have come across a study few years ago, it involved feeding in endurance horses - a trial group of horses at certain level of fitness would ''go off'' hay of their own volition and increase intake of oats...
 
Last edited:
Well I know nothing about miniature horses so can't say anything about that, but can I just point out that you cannot generalise like that.

I have always kept horses in Europe, either Italy or Germany and my horses have ALWAYS been turned out on grass, ok maybe not 24/7 but they are still out several hours a day.

All of the breeding studs I've seen let their youngsters grow up in a herd environment (even the super expensive ones! talking about yearlings who won foal championships as foals etc, so top stuff). Most of them do stable the youngsters at night but then they have ad lib hay.

In certain countries, such as Italy, it cannot be denied that turnout is more limited, but that is purely for geographical reasons - there just isn't as much space as there is in the UK, so it's really difficult to actually have the land to turn horses out!

Sometimes the way we do things, or have always done things, might seem a million times better than any other way, but this is not always the case. In certain parts of Europe (the very south; Southern Italy, Southern Spain, Sicily, etc) grass just doesn't grow. Horses cannot be turned out on grass because it doesn't exist! But just think of Arabs for instance, it's a breed which developed in desert climates, definitely no grass there and probably no hay either, yet it's an incredibly healthy, strong breed...

What we're used to is not necessarily the only way to do things.
 
martlin said:
ON another note, I have spent 25 years involved with horses and have only come across 2 cases of laminitis before my move to UK, and 1 of those cases was so called toxic lammi - caused by a steroid treatment for an unrelated injury.
In no way shape or form am I suggesting here that I have any sort of scientific evidence, it's all anecdotal, but does make you think, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

I often thought the same thing, it certainly must be related. I also feel that yes, it might be unnatural for horses to be fed 5 times a day only, but then again, it is equally unnatural for them to spend 24/7 in a fenced paddock with really rich thick Spring grass.
 
Frodobeutlin - see this bit!
Stinkbomb said:
I agree and think this is the reason they feed like this so they can monitor exact calorie intake. They also said not feeding hay help keep their stomachs down. Do you find that European horses have a higher rate of ulcers?? ( i do appreciate that not all europeans feed like this i wasnt trying to steriotype :) )
Click to expand...

For my part - horses are GRAZING animals.

End of.
 
FrodoBeutlin said:
Well I know nothing about miniature horses so can't say anything about that, but can I just point out that you cannot generalise like that.

I have always kept horses in Europe, either Italy or Germany and my horses have ALWAYS been turned out on grass, ok maybe not 24/7 but they are still out several hours a day.

All of the breeding studs I've seen let their youngsters grow up in a herd environment (even the super expensive ones! talking about yearlings who won foal championships as foals etc, so top stuff). Most of them do stable the youngsters at night but then they have ad lib hay.

In certain countries, such as Italy, it cannot be denied that turnout is more limited, but that is purely for geographical reasons - there just isn't as much space as there is in the UK, so it's really difficult to actually have the land to turn horses out!

Sometimes the way we do things, or have always done things, might seem a million times better than any other way, but this is not always the case. In certain parts of Europe (the very south; Southern Italy, Southern Spain, Sicily, etc) grass just doesn't grow. Horses cannot be turned out on grass because it doesn't exist! But just think of Arabs for instance, it's a breed which developed in desert climates, definitely no grass there and probably no hay either, yet it's an incredibly healthy, strong breed...

What we're used to is not necessarily the only way to do things.
Click to expand...


I did say i wasnt saying that all Europeans feed like this, just the ones i spoke to.

My issue isnt necessarily that they dont graze, its that they dont turn out full stop. I do agree that just because we are not used to it doesnt mean its wrong. I value others experiences and thoughts on the matter! To me it just goes against what ive ever been taught but i do appreciate different countries have different methods :)
 
martlin said:
I have come across a study few years ago, it involved feeding in endurance horses - a trial group of horses at certain level of fitness would ''go off'' hay of their own volition and increase intake of oats...
Click to expand...

Its funny you should say that. i have a friend who has recently imported several miniatures from America. Put hay in front of them they wont eat it. Put a large bucket of hard feed and they will "graze" all night on it. It must be how they are brought up :)
 
i wonder whether keeping them off the grass is to stop them from getting laminitis.
tbh, i'd rather have a healthy horse not on grass than a happy horse like a pig in clover, then struck down with agonising laminitis...
perhaps they eat their big buckets of alfa, mix and beet slowly? sounds like controlled calorific intake, definitely.
i know nothing about miniatures, btw, i am only guessing.
 
I think it has to have something to do with the performance we are asking horses for... The bucket feed is somehow lighter to carry with them than a belly full of grass/hay whatever.
I know horses are grazing animals, but a) they tend to intensively graze only a couple of times a day and more importantly b) the physical activities we ask them to do are very different to what they would do in nature... IMO this justifies adjusting their diet/routine accordingly.
Incidentally, in my first post I was talking about mature animals used for competition/riding in general - in my experience it's very different when it comes to breeding and keeping youngstock.
 
martlin said:
I think it has to have something to do with the performance we are asking horses for... The bucket feed is somehow lighter to carry with them than a belly full of grass/hay whatever.
I know horses are grazing animals, but a) they tend to intensively graze only a couple of times a day and more importantly b) the physical activities we ask them to do are very different to what they would do in nature... IMO this justifies adjusting their diet/routine accordingly.
Incidentally, in my first post I was talking about mature animals used for competition/riding in general - in my experience it's very different when it comes to breeding and keeping youngstock.
Click to expand...

In America and Europe, showing miniatures is BIG business. They are very competitive, alot more than over here. I think id rather do what i do and stand further down the line :)
 
Stinkbomb said:
In America and Europe, showing miniatures is BIG business. They are very competitive, alot more than over here. I think id rather do what i do and stand further down the line :)
Click to expand...

Oh, no, I didn't mean that miniature versus ridden/competition horse, I meant grown up/in work (whatever that work might be) horses versus broodmare/youngstock:)
 
Our new horse has just arrived from Slovenia, as a youngster he was turned out with the herd until it was time to be broken. They are then brought in and either barned or stabled and from the evidence I have seen as you suggested fed hard feed several times throughout the day although I have seen small amounts of hay being fed.

We turned our boy out for a few hours (first time in 37months) the morning after he arrived last week and he wasn't sure at first what he was expected to do, but has really settled into going out in the morning and is loving it and hay!
 
Poor horses! I can understand limited turnout but no hay or anything? Horses are purpose built to constantly munch and graze, even if its only on hay its good for their systems
 
FrodoBeutlin said:
Sometimes the way we do things, or have always done things, might seem a million times better than any other way, but this is not always the case. In certain parts of Europe (the very south; Southern Italy, Southern Spain, Sicily, etc) grass just doesn't grow. Horses cannot be turned out on grass because it doesn't exist!
Click to expand...

But presumably the horses are turned out on dry lots? This is a much better environment than UK pastures - I'd swap my green fields for Mediterranean dry lot paddocks any day of the week! I have a friend in Arizona and her turn out paddocks are desert and rock. Very envious!

But just think of Arabs for instance, it's a breed which developed in desert climates, definitely no grass there and probably no hay either, yet it's an incredibly healthy, strong breed...
Click to expand...

Not strictly true. When we think of arabians in their natural habitat we think of sand dunes and miles of nothingness. Romantic image alert!!! But in actual fact that part of Arabia never supported the breeding or ownership of arab horses - camels were the mode of transport in the sandy desert regions. The areas where the arabian horse was originally bred are much more rocky and do have vegetation - granted not the sort of grazing we're used to in the UK but there are grasses and shrubs and other plants on which horses would graze.

Lower incidences of laminitis is without doubt down to no grazing on UK type cultivated pasture, which is totally wrong for horses. But I still hate the thought of horses tied up and restricted from eating for so many hours in a day. That's a welfare issue IMO. The showing world in the USA (from minatures upwards) is sooo choc full of cruelty and abuse it's scary. You only have to watch a few Youtube videos of the Tennesee Walkers to see what is considered acceptable over there. In arab showing cosmetic/plastic surgery is common. As per usual it's the horse that comes off worst.
 
I noticed that in the USA lots of horses are kept in a corral and fed hay, rather than being put out into a field. If they do have access to grazing it was very limited, about 1 hour per day. I think the hay they have is better quality - made in good dry conditions and probably cheaper. My sister lives in the USA and was surprised when I soak my hay as she has never had to.

Different countries, different conditions. Just shows how adaptable horses are.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top