Euthanasia - the impact of bad experiences

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Sampson.rebecca

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Hi all, For my university work I am studying Euthanasia for my research portfolio. I am studying which is the chosen method out of shooting and injection. And now I want to find out if the chose is impacted by videos on youtube, bad experiences through other owners and any other reasons!
If you all could please help by saying which in a circumstance what method you would use, also if you agree or disagree that videos and opinions i.e gone wrong, slaughterhouses etc do impact and owners choice on the method used id be very grateful. Thank you all.
Sorry its a bit morbid!
Rebecca
FdSc Equitation science.
 
I hope that my mare was not aware when she fell and kicked for a few seconds. There is a real debate about the injection and whether the horses feel the heart attack. But I really don't like the bullet either. It is just a horrible thing which ever way you choose.
 
Wagtail said:
There is a real debate about the injection and whether the horses feel the heart attack.
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Wagtail, that's not really true. I don't think there is any debate at all. With a combined injection containing barbiturates and another drug to stop the heart, the horse will not feel anything like the kind of angina pain that people feel when they are having a heart attack. That's because the horse would be unconscious already due to the barbs, and even if the horse was conscious when the heart stopped beating, the rapid fall in blood pressure would cause fainting and loss of consciousness. Sudden loss of cardiac output due to asystole or ventricular fibrillation is a totally different phenomenon from a blocked coronary (although the second can lead to the first). Put another way, anaesthetic overdose does not cause a heart attack. Please believe me - I know what I'm talking about and I am sure any vet or medic will confirm what I have written.
 
Thank you. I just wish my mare's death was a bit less animated. But that was her all over. Maybe the kicking was just her panic when she first lost her footing. I can't find anything about it, I will have to stop torturing myself.
 
My pony was shot because tbh i don't think he would have made it until the vet came and he was suffering, the neighbour who is a hunts man was happy to do it to end his suffering. It was back before the days of internet and magazines so it was influenced by the "vet can do it in 4 hours for £93873896 or the neighbour can do it now for free"
 
The first horse I had pts was already in an equine hospital fighting (and sadly failing for his life) he was already attached to a drip and he went down and wouldn't get up. The obvious thing for us was injection as they only had to put it in his drip.

Right up to the last minute we couldn't decide what to do when my other boy was pts. We had the vet and the knacker man there and they both suggested injection. I've heard bad experiences through this forum which was making me nervous but my lovely vet put me at ease. He was given two sedatives beforehand as he was a rather quirky boy and as soon as the stuff went in he was gone. It was incredibly peaceful and I wouldn't hesitate to use the injection again.

I think with media today people hear more about the very minority bad stories but not the thousands of positive ones and it does skew your judgement.
 
Wagtail said:
Thank you. I just wish my mare's death was a bit less animated. But that was her all over. Maybe the kicking was just her panic when she first lost her footing. I can't find anything about it, I will have to stop torturing myself.
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Most animals have a bit of a kick/pedal when they die. It's just the nerves. Not nice to watch though. The last one I had PTS did a massive gasp about a minute after his heart stopped. He was dead though, it just happens sometimes. So don't beat yourself up.
 
My choice of method was influenced by my previous experiences with other peoples horses. I knew of a couple of cases of injection which were botched (same vet, though, and frankly he didn't seem unduly competent across the board) and our local knackerman is extremely competent, kind and professional. That said with one horse the knackerman put down for me, the gun didn't go off the first time. However it caused the horse no distress at all, just me, so I can forgive him for that. I did have one horse put down by injection because the vet was there. This poor chap had obvious never put down a horse before (he had to phone for advice from a colleague) and didn't make the most competent job, but again the horse was unworried, just regarded the vet with utter contempt as he failed for the third time to insert the catheter into the vein (is that the correct term?) to administer the lethal drug. Last time I got the vet to call the knackerman even though the horse was sedated as although the injection is ok, I prefer a bullet.

I don't think I could bear to go looking for videos on YouTube or anything like that to try and decide how to have my horse put down, and I'd be quite wary of anyone who did.
 
fburton said:
Wagtail, that's not really true. I don't think there is any debate at all. With a combined injection containing barbiturates and another drug to stop the heart, the horse will not feel anything like the kind of angina pain that people feel when they are having a heart attack. That's because the horse would be unconscious already due to the barbs, and even if the horse was conscious when the heart stopped beating, the rapid fall in blood pressure would cause fainting and loss of consciousness. Sudden loss of cardiac output due to asystole or ventricular fibrillation is a totally different phenomenon from a blocked coronary (although the second can lead to the first). Put another way, anaesthetic overdose does not cause a heart attack. Please believe me - I know what I'm talking about and I am sure any vet or medic will confirm what I have written.
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Really?

when i had my dog (large cane corso) pts he almost certainly felt something. He fought in agony for over 20mins, much to my, vet assistant and everyone outside in the waiting rooms horror and distress. It was the most heart wrenching and horrific thing i have ever witnessed. I always though injection would mean they just went peacefully to sleep. Wrong! Never, ever again! I would choose bullet everytime now.
 
Having had horses pts by both methods, I will always choose shooting by the knackerman, if possible. One pony who was injected objected strongly to yet another injection, which was distressing for her and all the witnesses. The ID who was pts by the vet who was there trying, unsuccessfully, to cure her stood up on her back legs before the drugs kicked in, which considering that she had collapsed not long before was quite some feat. I have had horses sedated in other circumstances, it never appears that it is an enjoyable experience and having had anaesthetic myself and not like the experience, I shall continue to prefer the bullet method. It is quick, the horse has no previous experience and usually dies with a mouthful of its favourite food. I prefer the horses' last moments to be as enjoyable as possible.
 
I chose the bullet purely because my boy used to fight injections he used to take ages to final sercum to sedation for a scan so i didnt want to prolong his suffering if he faught the injection. The bullet was quick and he was gone before he hit the floor
 
rowan666 said:
Really?

when i had my dog (large cane corso) pts he almost certainly felt something. He fought in agony for over 20mins, much to my, vet assistant and everyone outside in the waiting rooms horror and distress. It was the most heart wrenching and horrific thing i have ever witnessed. I always though injection would mean they just went peacefully to sleep. Wrong! Never, ever again! I would choose bullet everytime now.
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Then I'm afraid to say it is clear that the injection was not done correctly. When done correctly, injection does mean a rapid and peaceful end.

Regarding fighting injections... While this is possible with sedative, it is absolutely not possible to overcome or delay by willpower the effect of a barbiturate overdose.
 
Going against the majority, I always go for injection when I have too. I am yet to have a bad experience with it and neither have my mother or father who worked the stud before I took over. I don't think we have ever had one shot and we tend to be with them until they are gone, just the way I like to do it.

Whenever one of mine have been pts by injection, they have gone peacefully and quietly with no idea what was going on.
 
I think there is a real call for far more education on this front. When I was a senior working pupil (I had my BHSAI at the time and was studying further) at a training yard there were 3 horses over the time I was there who had to be PTS. As they were horses whose health had deteriorated considerably but not energencies, all 3 were done on the day when the riding school is shut (understandably). This did however mean that none of the other trainees were there on that day. They never witnessed or assisted with the sad but necessary procedure and were never there to hear the vet who was very happy to explain what they were doing, what would happen and what to expect. This is not something which is easy to learn when the one horse owner is around. If more people understood about what was happening and felt able to deal with it on behalf of others if requested, there would be less people like Wagtail who felt unhappy about seeing there horse go.

My personal choice (though I have never been in the position to make that particular call for a horse, only to assist with horses whose owners had made the decision) would be that any horse who was already very poorly, down on the ground etc would be done by injection. Any horse who was being PTS due to extreme leg issues, age (the 'not putting them through another winter' type scenarios) or similar where their systems are still in reasonable working order would be using a bullet. This is a personal opinion, I have seen one horse who faught the injection for a short while - she fell into the second category with severe arthritis and is part of my reasoning for this opinion.
 
I have had both of my horses done by injection, one was going blind in both eyes so was easily spooked around the head and the other one was a head shaker (need I say more) Both went very peacefully and there was no real drama. When my current horses time comes he will be shot as he is very very very needle phobia so unless he was severally under the weather the injection would be too traumatic for him. Its about knowing your horse and trusting your vet.

ETA social media had no impact on my choice for either of my horses. My first preference would alway be injection but its not always possible.
 
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Kokopelli said:
The first horse I had pts was already in an equine hospital fighting (and sadly failing for his life) he was already attached to a drip and he went down and wouldn't get up. The obvious thing for us was injection as they only had to put it in his drip.

Right up to the last minute we couldn't decide what to do when my other boy was pts. We had the vet and the knacker man there and they both suggested injection. I've heard bad experiences through this forum which was making me nervous but my lovely vet put me at ease. He was given two sedatives beforehand as he was a rather quirky boy and as soon as the stuff went in he was gone. It was incredibly peaceful and I wouldn't hesitate to use the injection again.

I think with media today people hear more about the very minority bad stories but not the thousands of positive ones and it does skew your judgement.
Click to expand...

This was my experience with injection....it was dignified and gentle, he just slipped away. The knacker man stood at a distance in a clean overall with his head bowed! the vet did the deed and I said goodbye and walked away - it could not have been 'better' and left me with a good memory - I know I did the right thing at the right time, the best we can do as responsible owners.
 
I have had to horrible experienced with the injection, so can't bear to do it unless the horse is in horspital or similar. The first was a racehorse at a racecourse that had failed to recover from his race, his heart must have been going crazy and the only reason they used the injection was due to the close proximity of the stables to the grandstand. He went into gallop phase on the ground after he had dropped down, he thrashed for a good 10 minutes ripping himself to pieces. I know he was dead and felt no pain but it was just horrible. The second injection was my own mare, who was dying of colic. I wanted her shot, but didn't realise that the vets don't carry the gun around any more, plus I had a newly qualified vet at hand. It was such a horrible experience that I suffered massively from depression afterwards, I stayed for a week in bed and couldn't stop crying. So, yes, it has cloudy my views on what I would choose. At work they are nearly always shot, sedated first, then shot. It is quick, no fuss. I had my best horse ever done this way and the hunt were very respectful, he had done a lot of hunting with them, they blew gone away and then did it. He stood stock still. I felt it was the best end I could have given him and got over it a lot quicker than my mare.
 
I have and still will use the knackerman and gun every time. Failing that, i.e. emergency then my vet will shoot. Yes bad experiences have put me off the injection, I have posted about that too often so will not go into it here.
 
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