Evading contact/sideways head carriage...help?

[Apalacia01]

I am loaning a 5 y/o ex-racehorse out here in the States who has done some basic schooling, and need some advice (yes, I will be getting lessons, but I am a poor student, and would like to try and get some basic work done first).

Anyway, he was in a rubber, non-jointed (rather thick) snaffle (not loose ring) which was causing him to open his little mouth a lot and evade to the side. I had a search for a loose ring, but couldn't find one, so tried a conventional jointed snaffle, which I found he did stop snatching in...but...still, if I tried to take up a slightly firmer contact, he would either try to run out of it, or stick his head up and sideways and open his mouth. Stuck a flash on, headshook for 5 minutes and was on the cusp of threatening to rear, and not moving forward at all (and he is forward going). its all well and good riding with the world's lightest contact (washing lines) but I would like to be able to try getting him a bit more together, without the open mouth thing and evasion. Teeth have been checked according to owner, but I will mention it again. (Seems most obvious)

Otherwise, any ideas? He starts to work nicely....and then I either ask for canter (very exciting!) or walk (jog, jog, jog).

Any ideas great HHO people? Or bit changing? Going to lunge him in a bungee on Friday to show him that work isn't that bad (loose, he has no neck muscle).

Thanks, and if I am doing something blatently wrong, please shoot me!

 

[Scarlett1980]

If you want a bit change I'd try a snaffle with cheeks. Will help keep him straighter through his head and help you turn.

 

[Apalacia01]

Like a fulmer? But without the loose ring attachment? Found a couple of those, but the problem was they didn't have the little tab things (I AM SOOOO bad with names) to keep attached.... In mouth, lozenge or just jointed? He does play a lot so would think lozenge better ....
Thanks for response

 

[Kenzo]

I think you have to take things one step at a time, you say your horse is an ex racer therefore there are a lot of things you need to sit down and go over in your head.

Its very likely that he will not have 'a mouth' so before you even think about riding him, or at least expecting things, you need to sort this out, time, patience and getting him used to one bit, where he can learn to mouth, learn the aids and eventually accept a contact, this could take months its this is the problem at the moment.

You will now be now asking him to use himself in a much different way than he is used to, mentally and physically so this will be an added strain...along with above.

A sudden change in bit then clamping his mouth shut with a flash will of been a big thing to him, so I'm not surprised he threatened to rear.

Basic schooling, is this something you have done or have seen him doing or something you have been told? because some peoples idea of basic schooling can be very different and it would not be fare on him if you think he's learnt things that perhaps he really hasn't.

You both need to learn to walk for your run so to speak, so I wouldn't introduce canter work until you have both walk and trot right, otherwise he's not learning anything and not learning at the right pace.

You say he is usually forward going...do you mean this as in too forward going, pulling or just responsive to your leg?

Snatching at the bit, this is very common of ex race horses, hence why he wont have a 'normal mouth' that your used to riding with.

Training aids....avoid like the plague until you know exactly what you are working with, until you have started his training from scratch, there are no short cuts in the long run, they only come back and bite you bum later and things take twice as long to amend.

Get his back checked, teeth checked....I'd do this with any horse...and specially an exracer even if I've been told they have been done, a horse on our yard came out of racing not so long ago...its teeth were the worst set of tushy pegs our EDT has set eyes on!...so get them looked at.

Ground work, manors, lunge work, slow paces, transitions, short schooling periods and finish on a good note before he gets bored/fizzy, a variety can be the spice of life, too much of the same thing can send them in sane, so even a simple change like walking them out in hand, instead of schooling can be quite calming for them. How long have you had to the horse for? do you undstand yet how his mind works, what makes it tick an what makes it tick like bomb?

Apart from anything else, I think you should have a good chat with some other people that have successfully brought on ex racers, they will be able to help you and keep you on the straight and narrow.

 

[Apalacia01]

Hey Kenzo - thank you soooo much for that. Lots of very useful information. I think what you are saying is very helpful - you are right, I would have been peeved and irritated with the flash, especially if he has never worn one before....didn't even think, just though, 'gob open...teeth fine...just being a twit'.

I have been told he has done basic schooling. First time I got on him no one rode him before me, he was alright, joggy, but seemed to understand leg commands, bends well (to the most part, can get fidgety etc...) and can do 5m and 10m circles in walk and trot. He gets upset in canter if he gets disunited, but in himself seems very balanced for a baby. The owner said that he had been ridden from time to time by 'professionals' after coming off the track, however, instantly when I asked for any sort of contact, he went very overbent, so I have just been trying to get him to loosen up, and not ask for any sort of outline.

The 'riding instructor' up there said that when she got on him, he just tanked off with her round and round. At least that hasn't happened to me, but shows that he can be very tempremental, and I guess likes a certain type of quiet riding? But shows that obviously has not had much done

Forward going, goes off your leg, doesn't really pull, manages to for the most part contain himself, unless as I said goes disunited.

You are right - I should get him out and about, just wandering about and getting confortable just being ridden quietly. I have only had him since mid-August, so not long. Lungeing was not the most sucessful, not listening to voice aids, and once again very unbalanced in canter. So....yes, should probably stick to a nice walk and trot ...walking over poles moving backwards etc...

Would you have any bit recommendations? He really wasn't happy in the original rubber one, (too thick) but he equally wasn't that happy (albeit a bit more comforatble) in the snaffle.

Thanks again.

 

[dopeesophee]

My horse does this....
(racer bloodlines)

but it was uncarachteristic
so we got the vet to check her teeth... and they were sharp, she also has absesses which were sore. the head shaking has also made her back tight... so get that checked too.

the other thing i can suggest is that he is allergic to something... like my mare... and a nose net works really well

i would suggest you go straight back to basics...

i had to do this with wilma, and she was 15 at the time and if she can do it im sure you and your youngster can.

yes i did start working her long and low... no reins and lots of hacking until she developed abit, i had to learn to ride with my body and not my reins. this worked really well but to a long time. it was only then that i started gradually picking up the contact and then hacking out more etc and repeating this until she was happy for me to have shorter reins.

i then did the same in a trot and canter etc in the school.

she did have her head in the air but she had stopped miss behaving like before. it has taken me over 18 months to be able to get her to work forwards into a contact, and its not always there!

good luck and perserve

xxx

 

[Apalacia01]

Thanks for the advice dopee!! (Love the name!) I think yes, we will just get dentist out again, see what they say and then take it easy, do some hacking etc until he gets confident ....

Thanks again for the advice - guess its not going to be an overnight fix then!

 

[RobinHood]

I would ditch the jointed snaffle (I'm presuming it's single jointed?) and change it for something with a lozenge or roller in the middle. TBs tend to have a low palate and a fleshy tongue so there's not a lot of room in the mouth for a bit. A neue schule bit with a lozenge would probably be best but a french link might be a good budget option.

Hope that makes sense, good luck x

 

[Apalacia01]

Thanks Robinhood - will look into that

 

[dopeesophee]

Thats ok... yes dad gave me that name (typical blonde )

no it is definetly not easy and definitly not an overnight fix

good luck and keep us updated

x