Evading the contact by dropping behind the vertical

[walker1234]

Any suggestions for this problem?

Latest dressage comments "need to be up through the back into a more consistent contact" "drawing back through the neck "unsteady to contact" "not fully to the contact"

I try and keep my hands still but he moves his head alot and momentarily comes behind the bit. He's not constantly overbent just dropping it every now and again (but enough to get consistently marked down for it).

If I take a good firm contact he shortens his stride and almost grinds to a halt. He is weak behind which I think is the first area to address but don't know how to do that without losing it all out the front?

Bit wise I've tried all sorts I dont think that makes much difference. He is quite accepting of the bit, frothy mouthed etc.

I dont ride with spurs, might that help? Any other suggestions that don't involve lunging thanks (no space).

 

[kerilli]

I was having exactly this problem with my mare when my trainer was last over, he was 100% adamant that i had to encourage her to carry her head with her nose out and keep the inside rein contact SUPER-light to give her the confidence to go forward to it and then drop the poll when she was ready. Not easy to do, and when I bleated "but she feels so insecure!" I was told in no uncertain terms that "Then the very LAST thing you should do is use the hand!!!"
He was totally right, a month or two of riding her as light as I possibly can and she has improved hugely...

 

[Renvers]

I think your comment about him being weak behind is key. Maybe change your focus to work on exercises to get him working through more from behind rather than focus on what the head is doing?

 

[jess_asterix]

My boy does this if allowed.

Firstly we had to address the strength which obviously took time but lots of transition making sure he is through and collection/extension but staying FORWARD and hill work.

The whole time I am riding him I have to think 'up and out' poll up, nose out and he has got alot stronger, he still isn't there 100% but I have been pretty half hearted this summer with all the cancellations etc but it has taken nearly 12 months for him to get really strong. I have to have a equal contact in both reins but it must be soft and giving so he can take the rein forward and let the nose out.

I also did lots of strapping to improve his muscles and lateral work to make him use his bottom and sit more to get stronger.

 

[meardsall_millie]

Work over trotting poles - starting at an easy distance stride-wise for your horse and gradually pushing them a little further apart to encourage a bigger step. Encourage the horse to stretch down and forward over them by staying soft on your hand and keeping your leg on.

 

[Bubblegum]

Our horse did this. Our trainer suggested using downward transitions, but then change your mindat the last minute. So....
ask for a trot to walk...just as he is about to walk, push back for trot. Same for walk to halt, canter to trot etc etc...
Horse was kept guessing, and gradually wanted to keep the contact himself, so he felt more secure. It worked a treat, without any nagging from rider.

 

[~ Clear Light ~]

I would work on getting the back end more engaged and Definitely NO pulling back of the hand. You cannot fix a contact problem by trying to fix the front end. As Kerilli said, you want to learn to ride the horse forwards and so that the nose is tending to be forwards out and down. Some riders find imagining the reins as sticks help, there should not be a loose connection to the mouth, you need to be able to time your driving aids with a soft, allowing hand so the horse is ridden forwards into the contact. Basically you want the horse to seek the contact through the impulsion that comes from the quarters, you shouldn't have to pull back in order to achieve the contact. This only blocks the hindleg and causes tension over the back.

If the horse's neck is still tending to curl after trying this then you need MORE driving aids and less hand still!

 

[GoblinPony]

I would do a lot of hill work as it helps to engage the horse's hind legs and improves self-carriage beyond recognition.
I would also work forward in a long and low position and just let the horse seek the contact.

 

[Firewell]

I have trouble with this with my horse and my sheets say similar things to yours. It hasn't helped that I have had dressage people telling me to shorten my reins and keep the contact... keep what contact, there isn't one? So I was pulling back to create a contact and making it worse.

Now I'm riding my horse much longer and lower, trying to lengthen his neck and get him to stretch down. It's hard as he will want to curl his neck into a ball and drop behind the reins. I am really pushing him on forwards with such a light hand, basically untill he takes the rein off me, lots of shortening and lengthening of stride and half halts to get him to push from behind and soften his back, stretching down at trot on a circle that sort of thing.
I try to get him to seek the rein down and then when he does that consistently, picking him up slightly so he's in my hand.
Very much work in progress, I got quite frustrated last time in the school but it is happening slowly.