Excessive drinking and liver issue

[Michen]

Having a bit of a medical mystery with Bear. He was drinking excessively last summer so I had some bloods run. They showed a very slightly elevated calcium. Blood tested two weeks later and showed raised liver enzymes. Did it again a month later after a course of antibiotics (I think, or maybe we did another test before the antibiotics) and all went back to normal. The drinking did seem to as well, although the drinking started before the liver issue ever showed up on a test.

He was tested for liver fluke (both antibody and normal test so should be reliable). Negative. So we just assumed some sort of mild infection.

He has at all times remained well, fit, not lethargic and looks great.

Nothing has changed management wise and all of a sudden he’s now started the drinking again. I hoped it was just a random blip but it’s the fourth day he’s done it now so will be getting vet out early next week to test again.

Assuming it shows the same sort of thing what would you do from here? More antibiotics? Liver biopsy?

I’m also wondering if I should get my other horse tested just in case it’s something field related. It shouldn’t be as they have moved fields in between these incidents albeit it’s right next to old field so same sort of land.


Any experiences of similar or suggestions very welcome!

 

[Roxylola]

Might not be any help at all, but we have found Charlie is better kept on the warmer side so we have him well rugged. Now he never felt hot under his rugs, and when it was below 0 at night we added an extra one. It only warmed up a bit above 0 at nights but he was suddenly drinking loads - not hot/sweaty etc but we took off the top rug and he's gone back to normal. I think he was just hot.
I'm sure you've considered something that simple, but the weather has been all over the place recently so I thought it worth mentioning

 

[Michen]

Might not be any help at all, but we have found Charlie is better kept on the warmer side so we have him well rugged. Now he never felt hot under his rugs, and when it was below 0 at night we added an extra one. It only warmed up a bit above 0 at nights but he was suddenly drinking loads - not hot/sweaty etc but we took off the top rug and he's gone back to normal. I think he was just hot.
I'm sure you've considered something that simple, but the weather has been all over the place recently so I thought it worth mentioning

Ah yes to be honest if anything I slightly under rug Bear to help keep his weight down, so he’s never cold but he’s never toasty under his rug like Boggle!

 

[criso]

I had raised liver enzymes which didn't respond to supplements. There were no outward signs and he was only tested because another horse on the yard had raised enzymes so the whole yard was tested. Most had raised enzymes to different degrees.

I ended up going for a biopsy which eliminated lots of things and blood tests for infection and liver fluke were clear. It didn't give me any answers but did show there wasn't any liver damage.

I introduced mycosorb as mycotoxins were a possibility and carried on with the milk thistle and vit e which were the main things is the tonic from the vets.

However i ended up moving yards for other reasons and a recent test had the enzymes almost normal.

 

[Michen]

I had raised liver enzymes which didn't respond to supplements. There were no outward signs and he was only tested because another horse on the yard had raised enzymes so the whole yard was tested. Most had raised enzymes to different degrees.

I ended up going for a biopsy which eliminated lots of things and blood tests for infection and liver fluke were clear. It didn't give me any answers but did show there wasn't any liver damage.

I introduced mycosorb as mycotoxins were a possibility and carried on with the milk thistle and vit e which were the main things is the tonic from the vets.

However i ended up moving yards for other reasons and a recent test had the enzymes almost normal.

That’s interesting thanks. He’s fed milk thistle and brewers yeast (vit B). Maybe mycosorb is worth a try.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I have no advice as not experienced this before but I hope you manage to get to the bottom of it, I am sure you will get lots if good advice on here as always please keep us updated.

 

[Michen]

I have no advice as not experienced this before but I hope you manage to get to the bottom of it, I am sure you will get lots if good advice on here as always please keep us updated.

Thanks P. I’m sort of worried sort of not because he’s absolutely fine in himself and always has been. But would like to get to the bottom of it now it’s come back.

 

[criso]

I think I'd be tempted to test your other horse too and if there are other horses there give the owners the option.

 

[BronsonNutter]

You can have your forage tested for certain mycotoxins which can cause elevations in liver enzyme levels - are they on hay or haylage?

 

[criso]

When i was at the RVC they said while you could test for some mycotoxins, you couldn't for all the potential ones so tests could come back showing none but that didn't mean that there wasn't any.

 

[Michen]

He was on haylage but is now on hay. It’s all from different fields tbh.

 

[Goldenstar]

H has gone through periods off this through out his eight years here .
I have given up trying to find out why .

 

[Michen]

H has gone through periods off this through out his eight years here .
I have given up trying to find out why .

GS that’s interesting. Specifically increased drinking and raised liver enzymes?

I assume none of your other horses have had similar bloods?

 

[SEL]

When mine had raised liver enzymes we couldn't work out what it was until the farmer mentioned springs running through the field. It only happened in ridiculously wet winters when the spring bubbled up through the field - so something in the water I guess.

He only mentioned this after I'd left the yard and another horse had the same issue.

 

[Goldenstar]

Yes raised but not much .

 

[ester]

I think livers are weird and what is tested blood wise isn't always that specific with regards to being an indicator.

I would absolutely test boggle too, that was the first thing we did when Frank's was an issue just to check it wasn't something they were both getting at/it eliminated the field possibilities not that we could find much anyway. Also on the basis that only symptom was photosensitivity and the mare doesn't really have any white bits that would flag that up, and that Frank had recently moved to that grazing a month ago, mare been there always.
- Also knew someone not far from us who had had a big mycotoxin issue because it is so low lying and wet.

Had he been younger I'd have probably have biopsied, as it was he became asymptomatic and his bloods improved a bit.
He's been on bute ermm 2.5 years now and not been adversely affected which doesn't really make sense.

 

[Scarlett]

I had raised liver enzymes which didn't respond to supplements. There were no outward signs and he was only tested because another horse on the yard had raised enzymes so the whole yard was tested. Most had raised enzymes to different degrees.

I ended up going for a biopsy which eliminated lots of things and blood tests for infection and liver fluke were clear. It didn't give me any answers but did show there wasn't any liver damage.

I introduced mycosorb as mycotoxins were a possibility and carried on with the milk thistle and vit e which were the main things is the tonic from the vets.

However i ended up moving yards for other reasons and a recent test had the enzymes almost normal.

We feed Mycosorb for similar reasons. Interestingly the horse I had who drank the most and had the worst liver enzyme results was also eventually found to be calcium deficient too.

Ours was put down to mineral deficiency in our grazing/forage, and seemed to get worse in wet weather.

I feed Mycosorb all year round now.

 

[Michen]

Ok thanks guys. Typically he seems to have stopped the drinking now.. I've kept them in for 24 hours to check. So maybe it was just a random blip.

Vet is coming on the 16th anyway so will see how it pans out next week and get him sooner if needed.

 

[criso]

We feed Mycosorb for similar reasons. Interestingly the horse I had who drank the most and had the worst liver enzyme results was also eventually found to be calcium deficient too.

Ours was put down to mineral deficiency in our grazing/forage, and seemed to get worse in wet weather.

I feed Mycosorb all year round now.

I had had a forage analysis done previously on that grazing amd calcium was incredibly high. Iron was high too but not abnormal for uk grazing. My horse had targeted supplementation for the grazing but in terms of the other horses tested, his levels were in the middle.

 

[palo1]

Yes, we too had all sorts of strange, minor issues including 'odd' liver results when the horses were kept in a wet, low lying field with a water source. Targeted mineral balancing and moving house actually changed all that but the forage testing and mineral balancing route was very successful whilst we still kept horses in the bog! I have failed to persuade my most sensitive horse to eat the targeted minerals in their advised quantities for 8 years....Last summer I just gave up with that and fingers crossed all is still well

 

[chaps89]

Am I right in thinking you moved the ponies for a while? Did the excessive drinking coincide with that at all (from what you've posted it sounds like it started at the original yard, if I'm right you then moved and it sounds like the issue resolved, but if you're now back at the original yard and the issues have started again?) In which case it could be something environmental? And some horses are just more sensitive than others?

Mine had liver issues which we just couldn't get on too of (but hers were symptomatic with severe lethargy), coincidentally we moves yards and she was like a different horse - backed up by improvement in her bloods too. Can't say there was anything odd or suspect about the original yard but who knows!

 

[Michen]

Am I right in thinking you moved the ponies for a while? Did the excessive drinking coincide with that at all (from what you've posted it sounds like it started at the original yard, if I'm right you then moved and it sounds like the issue resolved, but if you're now back at the original yard and the issues have started again?) In which case it could be something environmental? And some horses are just more sensitive than others?

Mine had liver issues which we just couldn't get on too of (but hers were symptomatic with severe lethargy), coincidentally we moves yards and she was like a different horse - backed up by improvement in her bloods too. Can't say there was anything odd or suspect about the original yard but who knows!

Yes I did and no it didn't, it all happened and was diagnosed before that- so when I moved him it was about mid way through his course of antibiotics.

He is back to drinking absolutely normally now so I'm thinking maybe just the call to my vet and posting this thread was enough

Maybe Bog just decided not to let him near the field trough those last few days (perfectly possible!)

 

[Michen]

Just thought I'd update as have just had results of the bloods I had taken today. His drinking went back to normal but I just couldn't shake it so had the bloods done. Liver is back up. Actually higher than it was before.

We are puzzled because he's in perfect health otherwise. Taking him in next week for a biopsy, and will take my other horse along at the same time for his ligament scan.

ffs

 

[Austen123]

sending positive vibes

 

[Michen]

Thanks. I'm quite upset by this to be honest, this is a realm of horse related problems I know nothing about and something like this feels a bit "scarey".

 

[Roxylola]

Oh how rotten and worrying. Hope you can get him sorted

 

[Michen]

Oh how rotten and worrying. Hope you can get him sorted

Thanks Roxylola. I am very fond of the little dude. I am probably being ridiculous given he looks brill and is full of energy so this isn't exactly a "sick" horse but... ya know.

I cannot quite get my head around the fact I'll be trailering BOTH my horses to the vets next week. Is that a laugh or cry moment?

At least the Boggle aspect is purely voluntary expenditure because of my neurotic tendencies

 

[criso]

Hopefully the score will tell you that there is no damage and the liver is coping despite the raised levels. That's what happened to mine, his score was 1 on a scale of 0 - 14. And you may be luckier than me in finding a cause.

 

[Michen]

Hopefully the score will tell you that there is no damage and the liver is coping despite the raised levels. That's what happened to mine, his score was 1 on a scale of 0 - 14. And you may be luckier than me in finding a cause.

Thanks Criso that would be best case wouldn't it!

I will remain hopeful

 

[ycbm]

Thanks. I'm quite upset by this to be honest, this is a realm of horse related problems I know nothing about and something like this feels a bit "scarey".

I'm not surprised! Wicked bad luck Michen, I hope it's something simple for Bear and that Boggle's scan is good.