Exercise intolerance (also in Vet)

[Burnttoast]

I suspect this might be too vague to be of use to anyone, really, but I'm trying to be hypothetical here (horse concerned is not mine). How would you define this - as in its manifestations physically and in terms of mental attitude? And what would you look to re causes? And if anyone would be happy for me to PM them on the subject, I'd be grateful. Cheers!

 

[catembi]

Before I bombard you with useless info... do you mean as in a horse that feels lazy & doesn't want to work?

I had - in fact I HAVE as he's just come back from loan - a v promising ISH who was doing well BS/BD, but whose performance started to tail off. To cut an 18 month tale of woe short, including more vet tests than you can possibly imagine, a ton of alternative practitioners & a good £5k down the toilet, it turned out to be EPSM.

If this is the sort of thing you mean, I can either expand further if you want, or you could search for my previous posts on the subject. Look for Adrian (the horse).

T x

 

[Burnttoast]

Thanks for reply!

It could be interpreted as laziness (there's a degree of resentment/stroppiness when under pressure physically). Main things are respiratory effort out of proportion to workload/in comparison with similarly worked horses, and feeling of hitting a brick wall/grinding to a halt after a really surprisingly short amount of effort (eg, 100 yards is a fair canter!). Level of work consistent (light) but tolerance to it does not seem to improve. Never hots up in company or when repeating faster work - the opposite happens in fact.

A friend's horse has EPSM so I've read around a little on it. Horse doesn't appear to have most of the salient symptoms (is better kept cool, e.g., and doesn't seem to tie up in the sense of becoming sore or stiff) but it crossed my mind and is always something to consider.

Hmm, less hypothetical than before...! Oh well.

 

[catembi]

Mine started off losing the top end of performance, i.e. not giving jumps as much room, not wanting to collect or exert himself dr. Everything gradually tailed off. I tried taking him hunting to wake him up, which did nothing. The more I worked him, the worse he got.

As far as I remember, he didn't particularly get out of breath for no reason. I'd describe it as trying to ride thru treacle. If I really got after him, think whip/spur/kick, he would swish his tail, buck & grind to a halt. So the more pressure I put on him, the less I got out of him, IYSWIM.

£5k's worth of tests (vet; Rossdales for a week; 2nd vet practice) found ZERO wrong with him. You name it - we tried it. Xrays, scintigraphy (sp?), ECG, a million blood tests... Horse whisperer (Ann Dee) got it 100% right. We tried the high oil diet & bingo - instant improvement.

If you are in doubt re EPSM, I would try a high oil diet for a week & see what happens. I learnt from someone else on here (or probs several someones) that the blood test can often come back -ve & even a muscle biopsy might come back as -ve as it isn't always the same muscles that are affected & sometimes there might not be enough damage to show up til the horse is 12.

Or of course, it might not be EPSM at all!

T x

 

[mystiandsunny]

One of mine was like this - breathing out of proportion to effort, and if fast work had to actually stand still to recover or would just keep on puffing. However fit we got her it made no difference. Equally she was 'lazy' about using her hind end and needed to carry a whip. Two things were at play with her. One, pollen allergy (cured with GH Airways plus) which improved the breathing greatly but didn't eliminate it completely. Two, EPSM. Once on a low sugar/starch diet, she started to use her hind end like never before and was much more forward going etc.

 

[Burnttoast]

Hmm, thanks. Diet is currently high fibre/low sugar in the sense of no mixes/molassed foods (grass chaff, thunderbrook base mix, hay) but also vast amounts good grass (tho this is beginning to go over). Horse is picky, but if he'll take it oil might be worth a try. Starting with an eggcupfull!

 

[Tr0uble]

My boy was like this in the run up to being struck down with pneumonia

 

[Burnttoast]

How is R doing?

It's a longstanding (and year-round, tho he is a little sensitive to tree pollen) condition in this case, so I don't imagine infection-related. But it feels like it, IYSWIM.

 

[Tr0uble]

He's getting there, thanks. Going to be a fair old recovery time though!

 

[Burnttoast]

Good luck with him

 

[ihatework]

Having a rubbish time with mine at the moment with not dissimilar symptoms. We certainly have allergies going on, bloods, tracheal wash and positive response to prednisolone - but not to the degree that I think it accounts for everything. Still in the middle of considering other things in conjunction

 

[Burnttoast]

That's the trouble - that it could be multiple things... without any real evidence apart from his way of going I'm wondering ulcers + muscle/skeletal, ulcers + upper airway, just ulcers (slightly reactive round barrel), allergies ... and have no way of investigating any of them! Just have to wait for the right moment to raise it again...

Hope you get to the bottom of yours, IHW.

 

[foxy1]

Bi-lateral foot pain would be high on my list of suspected issues....

 

[Ludi-doodi]

Main things are respiratory effort out of proportion to workload/in comparison with similarly worked horses, and feeling of hitting a brick wall/grinding to a halt after a really surprisingly short amount of effort (eg, 100 yards is a fair canter!).

On these symptoms alone it might be an airways problem. 2 years ago my horse had exactly these issues. Had him scoped and you could see a thickening of Airway passage. Treated with anti-b's, steroid powders and I had to use an inhaler on him for a few months. Rescoped about 4 weeks later and difference was amazing.

 

[Burnttoast]

Bi-lateral foot pain would be high on my list of suspected issues....

Ah, interesting. Feet (unshod) are not yet perfect but I hadn't connected them with this problem. He'll go over any surface (inc loose hardcore) happily, but the back of the foot is not yet fully developed and he does go slightly toe first when wandering along. Haven't videoed yet to establish whether he's toe first when using himself 'properly'. He has good, free paces as a rule, but that's not to discount the option. Hmm, more to think about!

 

[KatB]

Foot pain, ulcers or respiratory virus could all account for this in my experience.

 

[Burnttoast]

On these symptoms alone it might be an airways problem. 2 years ago my horse had exactly these issues. Had him scoped and you could see a thickening of Airway passage. Treated with anti-b's, steroid powders and I had to use an inhaler on him for a few months. Rescoped about 4 weeks later and difference was amazing.

This type of thing is my gut instinct. Cantered him with mate the other day (on her tiny pony who can outstrip him easily) and when he ground to a halt she said he looked almost panicky and his nostrils were collapsing. He felt just a tiny fraction uncoordinated as well, until he'd walked for a moment.

But it is a longstanding problem (becoming more obvious as he's failing to get through it) so presumably not a virus (unless the permanent effects of one from some time ago?)

 

[soulfull]

This type of thing is my gut instinct. Cantered him with mate the other day (on her tiny pony who can outstrip him easily) and when he ground to a halt she said he looked almost panicky and his nostrils were collapsing. He felt just a tiny fraction uncoordinated as well, until he'd walked for a moment.

But it is a longstanding problem (becoming more obvious as he's failing to get through it) so presumably not a virus (unless the permanent effects of one from some time ago?)

Bearing in mind pain and cause breathlessness as can panic, it does sound like EPSM because of the grinding to a halt uncoordinated, but better when walked a few steps. When he grinds to a halt what does he do with his head? IF high then suspect breathing as main problem, if he lowers it then suspect EPSM
One of my old horses was one of the first in the UK to be diagnosed with it, all his bloods were normal, diagnosis was a biospy that had to be sent to the US as no one in the UK knew what to look for, thye just asked if he had been for a gallop immediately before hand . If you try the diet remember it can take 6 to 8 weeks for them to learn how to actually use the oil, sugar free apple squash can help hide the taste. My lad also had respiratory problems and I fed him NAF respirator, started with the liquid as it is stronger

Another MAJOR issue can often be selenium deficiency and if using oil a vit E and selenium supplement is mega important

 

[Burnttoast]

Thanks for this. When he stops (or is given a break) he tends to push his neck and head out at withers height (full extension at poll), which I was thinking would be to straighten out his airway (on analogy with racehorses' head carriage for max efficiency). He is nothing like my friend's EPSM horse to ride and is much better when kept cool, which is why I hadn't previously considered it. Oh dear, so many options for so many vague symptoms! But I'll have to wait for my friend to be of a mind to discuss it again.