Exercises for suppleness when turning to a fence

[SpottedCat]

Ok, after some useful exercises I can to to stop horse falling in through the shoulder and motorbiking the turns when jumping. When doing flatwork, I can now step him round my leg much more and he is getting much more supple - he only jumps once a week tops, most of his schooling is flatwork so this is a work in progress.

However as he has improved on the flat it has become really noticable that he falls in through his inside shoulder when turning to a fence. If we are not actually jumping the fence (i.e. the fence is up but I am schooling round it) I can manage to stop this to a certain extent, but as soon as we start jumping he does it.

Things I am doing are:

1. 'Tram lines' of parallel poles on the approach to the fence to ensure we make a decent turn and come straight to the fence;
2. Blocks out in strategic places to make sure I don't let him cut the corners;and
3. Circling with the approach to the jump included in the circle so he does not always jump but learns to listen to me and be supple round the turns.

Part of the problem I think is me being very short and him being very big, so I struggle with my stirrups at jump length to have the leg on him to really step him over.

He tends to put his head to the outside and then his shoulder falls in to balance himself - watching the CCI* at Aldon this is a common SJ problem with 'non-pro' riders and I'd like to fix it.

So does anyone have any other exercises I could try? (Have lessons over a fence planned in a couple of weeks so no 'get a good instructor' comments please as I have one but clearly cannot have a jump and a flat lesson every week due to cost and IMO the better he gets on the flat the easier this will become when fences start to get involved!).

 

[LEC]

I have spent hours doing this sort of thing. I have fences built close to the end of the arena so about 4 strides away and 2 strides in and then its doing really tight turns either direction keeping the canter balanced. Fences on figures of eight, Fences at points on the clock is quite good as gives you different options turning all the time.

 

[Nickymac]

When you're doing flatwork try cantering a square as this seems to help with moving the shoulders round on a turn to a fence.

 

[alicedove]

This is a hard one. I was schooling a SJ which we bought in the spring, I couldn't believe how strongly she did this until I felt it.

Sounds as though you are doing all the right things and you just have to persevere.

The canter in itself can be greatly improved on the longe, (of course with side reins on) but the bend is not improved this way, but; with a nice round and balanced canter, with a decent contact and a good strike off due to improved balance, (with some good longe work) you will have an improved chance of schooling the bend in.

I love to watch Ben Maher I am going to go and try to get a vid of him now, his horses always seem to go bent the right way and really rounded in canter.

 

[SpottedCat]

Today I had fences like that:

/----\

So as you said 2 strides off arena wall, then tram lines leading to the oxer in the middle. I am jumping in a 20x60 so never turning on more than a 10m arc.

Guess as always it is just more of the same then. Wish I could just play him a blooming DVD....

 

[alicedove]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT1e2tQlocU

you can JUST about see some of the nice, bent right way canter, but this is the puissance!

 

[SpottedCat]

Armhole I have just realised what it is - ont he flat I have to have to have to get him into the outside contact in order to even begin to ask for inside bend and it is bloody hard work. I bet I am not doing it on the flat partly coz the pelham disguises the fact that he is not in the outside rein.

Nicky - I used to do lots of that but it had fallen by the wayside a bit, will pick it up again.

It is a shame I cannot jump in the dressage saddle with a snaffle as I know exactly how he should feel when working correctly then, so could reproduce it!

 

[siennamum]

My guy has me cantering a square within a related distance combination. Bacically jump four or three stride combo, then 2nd time round turn at right angle to 1st fence cut as close behind it as possible, without jumping it and still get stride for 2nd fence. Don't know if that makes sense, but he is the most fantastic SJ technician & full of clever ideas.

 

[seabiscuit]

Well one exercise that was taught to me by an associate of Lars Sedeholm's is to bend their heads to the outside when turning and to use lots of outside leg behind the girth ( you must have spurs on). Doesnt matter where the horse's head is. Makes the turn look messy but the approach to the fence is so much better because the hocks are engaged. it really does work!

You may think that this will make the inside shoulder fall out even more, but it doesn't. because it gets the horse totally straight and gets his hocks underneath him. You dont have to do this all the time, just do it a lot in the first instance when training and from then on only use it when you feel that the hocks are trailing again.

 

[SpottedCat]

Interestingly he feels engaged round the turn, but can't be as we will occasionally overshoot a tight turn.

God I need a lesson - only 2 weeks to wait!

 

[ReadyTeddy]

[ QUOTE ]
.

I love to watch Ben Maher I am going to go and try to get a vid of him now, his horses always seem to go bent the right way and really rounded in canter.

[/ QUOTE ]

which is no doubt why he wins so many classes! i would agree that you are in the right direction though

 

[SpottedCat]

Keep them coming guys - I like all these exercises!

 

[seabiscuit]

Oh sorry, thought your post said that he was falling in on the turn and that the turns were the problem?

 

[SpottedCat]

Well, he just feels stiff round the turn - we always get to the fence straight. I am assuming it is the turns that are the issue...

I thought it was lack of suppleness not lack of engagement if that makes sense?

 

[KatB]

If the turn is crap coming into a fence, put him on a circle, reduce the size of the circle and then push him out with your inside leg to get him into the outside rein and bending properly. ALWAYS Lift the inside hand if you have a prob turning, and make sure you ride the corner too. Jumping on a circle can also help.

 

[SpottedCat]

And really what I want to crack is the head to the outside as it looks so bloody amateur!

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]
If the turn is crap coming into a fence, put him on a circle, reduce the size of the circle and then push him out with your inside leg to get him into the outside rein and bending properly. ALWAYS Lift the inside hand if you have a prob turning, and make sure you ride the corner too. Jumping on a circle can also help.

[/ QUOTE ]

My instructor will kill me if I start lifting hands - we are trying to crack my errant right hand which is about 10 foot higher than the left!

 

[KatB]

Ah ok! Tis the best way though..... been told by a very good dressage rider and jump trainer, it gets them off your inside rein...

But obviously you need to have the ability to control when to use it

 

[icestationzebra]

Exactly what I worked on in my lesson last week Nicky - thinking of using pirouette aids on the turns instead of pulling round with the inside rein. Had a lovely 'light in front' canter after working on that for a few minutes on each rein.
S-C - I also have a big horse and this worked wonders for my control

 

[viola]

Just a little addition to what others wrote: I agree with what you seemed to gathered yourself- that you need a good connection to the outside rein first. Then check if he reacts well to the outside leg aid. The way it was explained to me some ages ago is that if you want to bend a horse properly you need to bend it against something...In other words, if you want to bend it around your inside leg you need to do it against your outside leg. It's like an anvil (outside leg) and a hammer (inside leg) relationship.
Once this is working, go deep into the corners, ride the canter very bouncy, make sure you turn with your shoulders with the horse not against and that you shift your weight down your leading inside seat bone.
Have your hands in front of you, on a contact, and give short squeeze on the inside rein with your ring finger only (in the downwards/across direction but within your wrist only - don't move your hand as such).
Ride every canter stride as a transition to canter - feel all three beats and don't let the horse shoot from underneath you.
I am sure you will get there

 

[SpottedCat]

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly what I worked on in my lesson last week Nicky - thinking of using pirouette aids on the turns instead of pulling round with the inside rein. Had a lovely 'light in front' canter after working on that for a few minutes on each rein.
S-C - I also have a big horse and this worked wonders for my control

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfectly explained, thanks, will give it a go!

 

[SpottedCat]

SG so that would be akin to my instructor in my flat lesson telling me to give him a kick on the circle with my outside leg then as he is a lazy so and so who given half a chance would rather drift round the turn?!

I will try all these, cheers all.

 

[viola]

[ QUOTE ]
SG so that would be akin to my instructor in my flat lesson telling me to give him a kick on the circle with my outside leg then as he is a lazy so and so who given half a chance would rather drift round the turn?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed, something in these lines

Piruette like turns are great but then (as far as I know) you need that true outside rein connection first to do them well.