Expensive horse shoes WWYD

[andytiger]

Hi just after some ideas my horse has remedial farriey he is shod 4 weeks in summer and 5 weeks in winter I have an exceptional farrier but here lies my problem for an exceptional farrier I pay an exceptional price which I except and have paid the price to keep my horse happy healthy and competing for the last 3 years
This year because of the hard ground he has been having equi pak in both front feet it now takes my shoeing bill to £260 every 4 weeks which I am struggling to afford I have asked how long he will need equi pak and my farrier said how long is a piece of string
I thought about having his back shoes removed but this would put more pressure on his bad front feet and my farrier didn’t think this was a option for him
I have thought about having a different farrier to do his back feet and just let my current farrier do his front I have asked a local farrier who comes to our yard and he said he didn’t have time but I think it may be a bit of a farriers code as he would be taking money of a well respected farrier in our area it’s also a timing thing he would have front and back shoes done a different times.
Or find another farrier who is cheaper but I am worried they might not do a good job.
Can any one help with any other ideas options I don’t want to go bear foot this is not an option or have I just got to suck it up thanks for listening to me moan

 

[ester]

What are the issues that mean he needs the equipak?
I certainly wouldn't have different farriers doing the front and the back, there's no reason shoe removal for the hinds would put more pressure on the front feet particularly though if he is sore it can make them stiff elsewhere and if your farrier isn't on board that is a bit of a no go.

 

[twiggy2]

Not sure how removing back shoes will put more pressure on the front feet.
I personally think a good farrier is worth their weight in gold- how uch do you value a sound horse, that said I am all for keeping horses without shoes where possible.
I would guess if you get a different farrier to do hinds then your 'exceptional' farrier will stop doing the fronts and I wouldn't blame him.
You have a farrier who's work you are happy with personally I would not mess him about- not sure what you do about the cost to be honest, it is a lot of money.

 

[9tails]

Cripes! That cost would break me too! Are you having other fancy footwear as well as the equipak? The shoes are the cheapest part of your bill, so having the hinds taken off would probably only save you about £10. The rest if your farrier's knowledge, but that may be a subject of debate.

Another avenue would be to look at your feeding regime. You need good grub to help grow good strong hooves.

 

[Shutterbug]

You wont know if removing the back shoes will cause further issues or not until you try it. I am unsure how taking back shoes off could cause extra pressure on the front feet? Did your farrier explain why he feels this would happen? I would try the back shoes off and see how horsey goes. I wouldn't be looking to do 2 different farriers, that is just going to annoy him. Ask around for recommendations on farriers and get prices for the same service?

 

[ihatework]

I would expect any exceptional remedial farrier to be able to get a horses feet to the point that a very good routine farrier could take over within 6 months.

There are a variety of pads/systems on the market, many of which are reusable if done with care.

If the feet are that bad, then it may be worth factoring in 6-12 months foot rehab without competitions scheduled

 

[Tiddlypom]

Eep, £260 a time! What is the remedial farriery for?

My very good farrier has told me that if my mare has to go into heartbars that the shoes cost an extra £35, but he will do subsequent refits for his standard charge, which is £40 for front refit/trim behind. He is working to x rays and under vet direction.

 

[oldie48]

Wy don't you have a chat with your farrier to see if there was any way of reducing the cost? That is an awful lot of money but it may be what you need to pay to keep your horse sound and competing or there might be another option which might be cheaper, unless you ask, you won't know. Some years ago I had a horse that needed remedial shoeing and he had the fronts done at the vets every 4 weeks and I used my own farrier for the backs every 6 weeks. It didn't seem to be a problem. My present farrier does remedial work but I am pretty sure if I explained I was struggling with costs, he's do his best to come up with something cheaper if he could.

 

[meleeka]

Seems expensive to me, even for a good remedial farrier.

 

[laura_nash]

I would expect any exceptional remedial farrier to be able to get a horses feet to the point that a very good routine farrier could take over within 6 months.

[..]

If the feet are that bad, then it may be worth factoring in 6-12 months foot rehab without competitions scheduled

Agreed, if your farrier has no plan for improving your horses hooves then IMO either he is not as good as you think, or there is a fundamental problem there that he cannot correct. If the former, the simple answer is change farrier. If the latter I guess you need to have a good think about the moral implications of competing a horse with such weak or compromised hooves, and how much time / effort you are prepared to invest to find out and correct the issue vs the money you are currently spending to cover it up. Resolving it will almost certainly mean you have to stop competing for a period.

A healthy hoof shouldn't need padding continously due to hard ground, and I am guessing your farriers comment about putting more pressure on his front feet means your farrier believes he will be significantly uncomfortable behind without shoes and will therefore put more weight on the fronts.

The cause might be as simple as too much sugar / starch in the diet or it might be very complex (e.g. metabolic issues) but since you don't mention the cause in your OP I am assuming you don't know it. If it is something like LGL or caudal hoof pain it is quite possible it will eventually get worse to the point shoeing cannot help.

I don't think you can ask two un-related farriers to shoe one horse at the same time (i.e. not ones that work together).

 

[Archangel]

£260 every 4 weeks. This is one expensive horse.
Can you give the horse time out to sort the feet?
Is the farrier working to x-rays? Surely he must have some idea of an approximate timeline.
Have you tested for IR/PPID?

 

[ester]

Reading the OP I wasn't sure it was the farrier saying that taking the back off would effect the front, just that he wasn't a candidate for removing the back.

 

[Red-1]

Does the farrier have a long journey to you? I ask, as my wonderful farrier (who many vets refer horses onto) would charge the same as yours if he had to come out. It would be further than his local horses. He would have to factor in fuel/vehicle costs as well as enough time to shoe 3 horses. That is where £240 came from.

I box up and take mine to him though, so it is £85/90 depending on what I am having. Mine is on 'normal' shoes but the farrier makes all his shoes from scratch instead of buying in machine made shoes, so special shoes would not add considerably to the bill. The huge difference is because he just stays at the forge making shoes, I turn up and mine is shod then I go away. No wasted time. Many more horses can be shod. There are often 2/3 boxes while we are there, one out, one in.

 

[Reacher]

I agre you can’t ask 2 farriers to work on the horse at the same time. What is exactly wrong with his feet? Has a vet looked at him?

 

[KautoStar1]

Don't suppose you are cheshire based are you OP?

 

[ester]

*hopes the OP comes back*

 

[andytiger]

Hi thanks for replies he has flat feet and upright Pasterns this is not something that can be corrected but with remedial shoeing and steroid injections-and has heart bars already has struggled this year even in heart bars ground has just been really hard and the weather dry it effected his feet
I have his shoes done by my farrier at my vets and travel to him I have been to the forge thinking it would be cheaper but it isn’t

 

[Gingerwitch]

Hi thanks for replies he has flat feet and upright Pasterns this is not something that can be corrected but with remedial shoeing and steroid injections-and has heart bars already has struggled this year even in heart bars ground has just been really hard and the weather dry it effected his feet
I have his shoes done by my farrier at my vets and travel to him I have been to the forge thinking it would be cheaper but it isn’t

I used to have to have aluminium egg bars, and equi pack every 5 weeks, plus horse had to be buted up for 3 days prior to shoeing and 3 days to a week after shoeing i was paying £170 for the fronts and £55 for his back's - in the end it just did not sit right with me, he in fact used to get stress laminitis when being shod... we went barefoot and boots. OMG - a flat footed bare foot TB ! - the vets supported me in this decision and okay it was not all plain sailing but we have never looked back - he gets booted to be ridden and you would think he was tigger on springs and gets to be barefoot in the field and in his stable, I am at a fab yard and they put his boots on and off for a minimal charge. We are 3 years in and his feet are still flat, but is as happy as anything with his new found feet and even quite likes seeing the farrier now a days.

I honestly think you need a candid chat with your vet - and if necessary your vet and farrier and ask if this is a sustainable option for your horse.

Good luck

 

[Red-1]

In your OP you say you don't want to go barefoot and I understand that completely, it is not an easy option. But, for this horse I would consider taking him out of work once the ground is wet and soft (or use a surface for turnout) and remove shoes or 3 months.

With probably needing boots (as your horse is extremely sensitive) it would probably not be cheaper, but I would give the horse a month just turned out for a few hours on the soft ground, in a thick bed for the rest of the time, and then start to build up the resilience of the foot by hand walking. Hand walking on concrete or tarmac, starting with boots if necessary, and building it u until hopefully at the end of the three months the horse is comfortable and able to do half an hour walking on tarmac.

I think you would find that the hoof shape and resilience and shape would be transformed. Not saying that the three months would be easy, it can be heartbreaking, but with a thick, soft bed, soft turnout and boots on standby it should be possible to have a humane switch.

At the end of the three months you could shoe again with a much better foot.

 

[Landcruiser]

In your position OP I would be getting myself seriously educated about hoof form and function, and looking hard at the diet. I know you don't want to go barefoot, but it sounds like the horse is struggling in shoes and it seems unfair to me to keep competing and working in remedial shoes -it's a sticking plaster but it's doing nothing to help long term, and is almost certainly compounding the issue and storing up problems. Seriously, I'd spend my money by sending horse down to Nic Barker at Rockley for a proper rehab, and see what comes back.

 

[ester]

Flat feet certainly can be improved by remedial trimming/shoeing! Has the farrier been trimming to xrays?, what is his sole depth? if he is struggling in heartbars and equipak then something should probably change as it sounds like his feet are pretty sick and I wouldn't be just continuing as is if there is no improvement given that hooves have such a propensity to improve if you given them the right options.

If you need to stick with shoeing ideally you need to be shoeing in a way that encourages some function of the back of the foot.
http://www.equinefootclinic.co.uk/EFC_Pad.html


Also very importantly what are you feeding, how much grass does he get etc?

 

[Casey76]

Just to make you feel better, my friend pays almost 600€ every 5-6 weeks for her horses shoes + vet...

 

[paddi22]

how long does your competition season run for? is it on surfaces normaly or do you run on grass mainly?

 

[paddy555]

In your position OP I would be getting myself seriously educated about hoof form and function, and looking hard at the diet. I know you don't want to go barefoot, but it sounds like the horse is struggling in shoes and it seems unfair to me to keep competing and working in remedial shoes -it's a sticking plaster but it's doing nothing to help long term, and is almost certainly compounding the issue and storing up problems. Seriously, I'd spend my money by sending horse down to Nic Barker at Rockley for a proper rehab, and see what comes back.

This. where is it going to end? you cannot go on forever as you are with so much expense and no end in site and there is never going to be a satisfactory end at this rate. Unless the horse is just a machine that has to be worked until it can do no more because of it's feet what is wrong with stopping work and taking a step back? Give the horse a year off and get the shoes off. That is the only way to improve the situation. There is nothing to stop you going back to shoes one you have improved the feet if you wish. In the meantime boots will keep the horse out of pain.

 

[paddi22]

yeah im kind of in the same boat (less expensive and serious than yours tho). One of mine needs to be shod every five weeks on the dot as he gets special wedge pads and trimming on vets recommendation. he events all year for a full season. He has started feeling fussy in his feet and the shoeing times seem to be getting shorter. so I just made a call with farrier to take shoes off, and work through a new plan with hoof boots etc for the winter season. I had to completely change my training schedule and he will start on events on a surface in feb. Then we are going to make a call on the shoeing again when the season starts. I have one that has been barefoot so far, but she has super hooves, never had a sore day in her life. I think this lad will struggle and I'm not sure how it will go. But I think it's my only option as the shoeing seems to be getting more and more intensive.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Flat feet certainly can be improved by remedial trimming/shoeing! Has the farrier been trimming to xrays?

Mine has gone from this:-

to this:-

in 19 weeks and 5 sessions with my own farrier, who has been working under vet direction, and from x rays. Initially he pulled the shoes, but she was left crippled, so she has been shod since in 'normal' shoes. She has been barefoot before, hoping to get there again eventually. It's still a work in progress.

 

[Mule]

Mine has gone from this:-

to this:-

in 19 weeks and 5 sessions with my own farrier, who has been working under vet direction, and from x rays. Initially he pulled the shoes, but she was left crippled, so she has been shod since. She has been barefoot before, hoping to get there again eventually. It's still a work in progress.

That's impressive.

 

[laura_nash]

Hi thanks for replies he has flat feet and upright Pasterns this is not something that can be corrected

If your vet and farrier have told you flat feet cannot be corrected then I think a new vet and farrier are in order as a first step.

http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/2013/04/changing-flat-feet.html

 

[DD]

I'd speak to a good barefoot trimmer it could be the solution.

 

[catembi]

Another vote for Nic Barker at Rockley...