Experiences of sidebone and lowered heel

[Aztec1]

About a month ago my horse started to stumble, trip and fall whilst being ridden ... Yesterday he had x rays, and nerve blocks done, they came back as him having sidebone in his hoof that he is stumbling on and his heel is to low to the ground so he is walking on tiptoes to help the pain in his heels, he needs to have heartbar graduated shoes to right his heel.. Can only power walk him for 3 months to see how he responds to the shoes then re x ray ... Has anyone had any experiences of sidebone and lowered heels ??? Dont know what to do for the best they reckon he should be ok after 6 months if he responds well to the shoes but I am really nervous about riding him its not nice going over his head in the middle of the road as he has fallen down again.... I hate seeing him in discomfort..

Many Thanks

 

[sbloom]

Lowered heels sounds odd - it's normally something you do to heels to correct them. I suspect they are underrun and causing heel pain along with the side bone. Search on "underrun heels" and you'll see it's much more to do with the trim. I'm not sure I'd be talked into heart bars - a good trim and possible barefoot would be my chosen option. The heel needs to be trimmed and brought back under the hoof, it is probably way under the hoof and therefore offering no support to the leg itself, and a long toe wiill go with it.

 

[moorman]

There is something that does not sound right to me.
As a referral farrier I come across allot of horses with sidebone and the last thing I would ever put on any foot would be raised heel shoes.
The reason being, a horse would (if given the chance) always try put the heel down first, thus if you put more steel on the heel of the foot it will touch the ground first, I know it gives the appearance that the heels are higher put in fact you are LOWERING them.
I agree with Sbloom and would pay attention to the toe length and foot balance.
Sorry to be so long winded put I feel so strong about people who recommend raised heels for any foot complaint.

 

[flintfootfilly]

I don't have any direct experience of this, but I would be very reluctant to put a shoe on a horse whose foot needed to change shape, because the only chance you have for the foot to be helped along is when the shoe is removed and the foot is trimmed.

Whereas without a shoe, the horse has chance to start wearing the hoof in the way that suits him best, so even in between trims the foot can make further changes for the better.

If it was me, I'd find the most reputable barefoot trimmer in the area, and the most reputable farrier, and ask each of those if they would visit and give their opinions....

..... and then decide from there just who and how you wish to proceed.

Chances are if they are saying the heels are low, they probably mean the toes are long, but if you gen up on how a good "natural" foot should look, you'll be able to start seeing what the issue with the foot really is. There are some good photos on Pete Ramey's hoof rehab website, if you choose to get your eye in a bit on how feet can look pre and post rehab.

Sarah

 

[Aztec1]

Many thanks for your replies I think I will speak to my farrier again before he re shoes him next wk with the heartbars to get his advice.. Its hard to know what to do for the best ... Does sidebone cause any problem to the horse being ridden or has this been caused by his lowered heel ???

 

[Andalucian]

Sbloom and Moorman are great responses. Tripping is usually caused by a long toe, this needs addressing before you ride any further, its dangerous for both of you

 

[Andalucian]

Sidebone usually settles down with no further problems unless its huge. Medial/Lateral balance needs to be perfect to avoid it.

 

[gem1979]

My boy was diagnosed with sidebone about 4 years ago. He wasn't stumbling but was not sound on and off so had xrays which revealed it. He was but on danilon for a few weeeks and rested then with advice from the vet was shod slightly longer from the heel and slightly wide to the outside to support the hoof. His toes are rolled back too with side clips rather than a central one. I'm careful about riding on hard ground now and don't trot on the roads unless really necessary but we've managed since then with only the occasional footy day. I also but him on a joint supplement with glucosamine. Whether that's helped or not I don't know. Good luck, hope you get it sorted but it is manageable.

 

[meesha]

My mare has been retired for quite a few years due to sidebone - they xrayed and found bilateral sidebone - not a problem in one front but it was HUGE and I mean HUGE in the other foot. Farrier tried sidebone shoes as he calls them which are wider on outside edge (made no difference) and also tried pads in shoes to get rid of the concussion (these made her much worse). i then decided to take her barefoot - she was a bit better and I still rode her out for a while as it made her no worse and she was brilliant uphill but appalling downhill to the point that I decided to stop riding her. Bute had no effect on her at all and my vet (who i totally trust) thinks it is so big in the one front that it restricts the movement in that foot.

In a way I can understand the logic of lowering the heel - think about it my mare was brilliant uphill! but barefoot is worth a go - I have also heard of alot of people turning them away for 6 months or so and them coming right ! I also used cortaflex which did help a little.

Dont be down about it - as I said my Mare was not the norm and the vet said he had never seen a sidebone so big - it doesnt normally make them lame once settled. My story is NOT the norm but I thought it may help with the shoeing !

Ps my mare is a little worse on hard ground, quite a bit worse on uneven ground (in the field/yard) but is a happy retired field ornament

 

[sbloom]

Many thanks for your replies I think I will speak to my farrier again before he re shoes him next wk with the heartbars to get his advice.. Its hard to know what to do for the best ... Does sidebone cause any problem to the horse being ridden or has this been caused by his lowered heel ???

Please do some reading before you speak to him. I think several of us are thinking that your current farrier's poor trimming may be to blame. You may want to take it up with him but you need to be very sure of your ground as most farriers are doing what they think is the best for the horse and they don't take kindly to being asked to change what they are doing, and in fact may be ignorant of the corrections required.

I too would endorse getting out a recommended remedial farrier and a good barefoot trimmer and getting advice from them before proceeding. I personally can't see how a farrier that has caused underrun heels (and I really never have heard of "lowered heel" being a condition, lowering is something done in a trim as I said before, not a useful term in this instance) is the best person to correct them.

Can you take good pics and post them on here? They need to be taken from ground level, yes, really camera pretty much on the ground, and take direct side and front shots, and then if you can a decent in focus shot of the sole, again straight on. Then you can get some feedback.

 

[Perissa]

You said your horse was xrayed, perhaps it is the pedal done which is lowered as in a condition called Negative Plane Distal Phalanx Syndrome. My horse has had this and had to have graduated shoes on.

Negative Plane Distal Phalanx Syndrome - is were the back end of the pedal bone is lower then it should be, most often diagnosed with xrays and not seen from the outside. As was the case in my horse. We literally only xrayed his hind feet as a last resort and hey presto, graduated shoes and remedial farriery sorted the problem.

 

[Bojangles]

Mine got sidebone and pedal ossetis sp?? I have since changed vet's and farriers due not being happy with the treatment recomond. Since this I have found out his feet are unbalanced and that the sidebone are still forming. Im really glad I went for a secord opinon as I don't think he would be still with me as he was on 4 butes a day and on the 4th day still very lame!! I was also told that his PO was very bad it doesnt show that on the xrays!!

I now have a happy horse who's back into work!! New farrier great and Beau doesnt pull a leg away like he did load's with old farrier! New shoes= a happy boy!! No more egg bar shoes!!!

If you not happy get a secord opinon and did your farrier see the xrays too??

 

[Andalucian]

Negative Plane Distal Phalanx Syndrome.

Well I never, that's a whole new way of describing underrun heels and long toes. Where is the "bang head smiley" when you need it?

 

[Perissa]

Well I never, that's a whole new way of describing underrun heels and long toes. Where is the "bang head smiley" when you need it?

No not really because my horse didn't have underrun heels nor long toes. What he did have was a niggling problem in the sacrum area of his back. As I said we xrayed his feet almost as a last resort which showed the problem. If memory serves me correctly the pedal bone should be at least 7 degress higher at the back then the front, and less than this is referred to as negative plane. My horse was 2.5 degrees on one side and 1.9 on the other, in other words putting strain on the tendons all the way up the back of his legs.

 

[Andalucian]

I believe you did the best thing you could for your horse, I have no doubt of that.

But my point is that the same angle could be achieved by lowering the toe plane and releasing the pressure on the heels that the high toe has caused, thus allowing them to grow more upright again, creating their own correct angle without resorting to remedial shoeing and the inherent problems that brings with it.

I did this with my current horse who when in shoes had one foot ground parallel and the other slightly negative. Vet prescribed degree wedge pads and shoes, I laughed at him, told him what I was going to do (unshod), and said we'll meet up in 6 months and see the result. Which we did, positive 6-7 degrees in both feet and elevated paces. He just grins. I can't wait for the day when vets feel able to suggest other ways of rehabilitating such feet, currently they can't because its not "scientifically proven" and therefore they're in a difficult situation from an insurance point of view.

 

[amandap]

Well I never, that's a whole new way of describing underrun heels and long toes. Where is the "bang head smiley" when you need it?

My understanding is that these two conditions are not related. Horses with long toes and under run heels do not, (automatically) I believe, commonly have a coffin bone with a negative angle plane. I believe a negative plane to the coffin bone is uncommon... Long toes and under run heels certainly aren't uncommon.

 

[Perissa]

My understanding is that these two conditions are not related. Horses with long toes and under run heels do not, (automatically) I believe, commonly have a coffin bone with a negative angle plane. I believe a negative plane to the coffin bone is uncommon... Long toes and under run heels certainly aren't uncommon.

Amandap, that is my understanding also. As I said before my horse did not have long toes and underrun heels. My physio would treat his back and the problem would go away - he would go disunited so I wanted to know why. He had his back, stifles, hocks and fetlocks xrayed, which showed nothing. As a last resort we xrayed his hind feet. He is David Lloyd, consultant vet and orthepedic specialist at Liphook Veterinary Hospital.

 

[amandap]

Interestingly this article links the two especially in hind feet. http://thenaturalhoof.co.uk/27.html

I think many people don't see the long (collapsed) under run heel in many horses when the bulb is near ground level.

Apologies op going a little off topic, the article I linked does talk about wedging for under run heels though.

 

[Andalucian]

Looks like a great article, I'll read it thoroughly later.

The way I see it is that you can't have negative palmar angle without collapsed underrun heels and a high (long) toe, but you can have some underrun, and long toe, without a negative palmar angle.

The poor foot balance which causes the underrun heels and long toes to exist, over a long period of time, will mean the coffin bone slowly derotates so that it becomes too flat, ground parallel, then negative rotation. My point is that the cause should be treated, long before the coffin bone angle is effected.

Good to discuss ladies.

 

[happy_talk]

Perissa - i think my horse been diagnosed with something similar. described as reverse rotation of the pedal bone. she's currently on 4 wks with lateral heel extensions which have made a huge improvement. The plan was to lower the toe, but there is not enough hoof/growth to do this at the moment. How long did it take to correct your horse's feet? how long to lameness/muscular improvement? how long with heel raisers? has the angle now corrected and shod "normally"?

 

[Perissa]

Looks like a great article, I'll read it thoroughly later.

The way I see it is that you can't have negative palmar angle without collapsed underrun heels and a high (long) toe, but you can have some underrun, and long toe, without a negative palmar angle.

The poor foot balance which causes the underrun heels and long toes to exist, over a long period of time, will mean the coffin bone slowly derotates so that it becomes too flat, ground parallel, then negative rotation. My point is that the cause should be treated, long before the coffin bone angle is effected.

Good to discuss ladies.

It is good to discuss . At no point has my horse's pedal bone been ground parallel, nor the back of the pedal bone lower than the front. Like I said before he was 1.9 degrees on one side and 2.5 on the other yet my vet and farrier still described him as being in negative rotation as it is less than the 7 degree ideal. My horse, the one in my signature does not have underrun heels, nor long toes. What he does have is VERY small feet for his height. He is a 16hh arab and is in a size 00 shoe.

Perissa - i think my horse been diagnosed with something similar. described as reverse rotation of the pedal bone. she's currently on 4 wks with lateral heel extensions which have made a huge improvement. The plan was to lower the toe, but there is not enough hoof/growth to do this at the moment. How long did it take to correct your horse's feet? how long to lameness/muscular improvement? how long with heel raisers? has the angle now corrected and shod "normally"?

As I needed a quickish fix as I was taking him to a very large national show he was first fitted with aluminium NB graduated shoes. I can't remember now but quite soon after he was shod with normal NB shoes which were set right back and and wide at the heels. He was shod every 4 weeks three times, and then back to 6 weekly.

There was immediate improvement, muscular improvement was pretty much immediate too.

He is now shod normally but his pedal bone angle isn't perfect but my vet thinks that they are as good as they will get given his very small feet. It certainly doesn't affect him now as he had a very succesful couple of years of affilliated showing.