Experiences with antis whilst hunting

[sparrowfree]

Hi,

I'm doing some research for a project I'm doing at undergraduate level at university and wondering if you could help. It's only a minor project, so the only people reading it will be myself and the marker. You will remain completely anonymous.

I'm looking for any of your experiences with antis whilst out hunting; verbal/physical abuse, or just hiding behind bushes filming, etc.

And on a side note, do you feel that you have ever been stereotyped because you hunt?

If you want to include the name of the hunt you were following when you had any experiences that would be great, but if you don't want to say then that's absolutely fine.

Many thanks, this is a big help

I have also posted this in the hunting forum, just trying to reach as many people as possible.

 

[StarlightMagic]

Lots of verbal abuse, filming children (really quite young children at that!) but nothing physical I've seen! They have trespassed onto the farmers land to try and get footage, despite being asked to return to the public rights of way. This is IOW foxhounds.

 

[thatsmygirl]

Iv only had verbal abuse on the way to a Boxing Day meet, a few hundred yards from the meet on the sea front I had a couple shouting " scum" " you should be ashamed of yourself" " murderer" I politely said i have a spare horse if you would like to actually see what hunting is like. This was with the axe vale hunt

 

[Partridg3]

I only follow on foot but last time a van joined in between the followers and whilst we all stopped to watch the hunt in a field 6/7 people jumped out in camo gear and balaclavas and ran into the field (regular followers had already clocked who they were). As the hunt and we moved off onto totally private land somewhat later they reappeared behind us. The field were a short distance away grouped together quietly and as the hounds found (sorry don't know official terminology yet!) the antis started sounding their horns which totally threw the hounds and the fox took advantage. At this point there seemed to be only us followers and the antis with their horns so we were running in one direction making horn like noises being but we were totally overpowered, they must've had 6 horns and were blowing them full blast and the hounds turned tail and actually left with the antis. Obe hunt, no hounds. One of the hunt went and fetched them back and the police were called by the hunt and they attended for the rest of the day.
It was starting to get quite fraught by this stage.

 

[vieshot]

I remember some turning up on a drag hunt. What a waste of their time? It was children's day too so most of the field were kids or teens. One of them fell over trying to keep up with the ponies. Oh how I laughed

 

[Crosshill Pacers]

We don't get much in the way of abuse as we're very rural and hunt mostly open hill or farmland (obviously with permission) and most people in the area either support us or let us be, HOWEVER at meets in one town which is located on the main road we get lorries/cars blowing their horns/letting off air brakes which thankfully hasn't caused much of a problem as everybody's horses are pretty bombproof, but I wonder what's going through their minds as they do it when there's young children on ponies present.

Also earlier this season one gentleman who has moved into the area came out onto the hill we were on with his camera and started taking photos of us. The decision was made to move off the hill however he followed us all and continued to take photos (I was chaperoning four young girls away from him as he had been taking photos of them too). Once the horses had left he confronted my parents who were in a vehicle, taking photos in their faces and of the vehicle registration. My mum asked him to stop repeatedly but he continued to take photos up close in her face; he then called the police and alleged that my dad had punched him (he hadn't, there were two other people present who can verify this), then turned on the two others present and told them they couldn't be there (as it was a common, they had every right to, especially as one lad was a farmer who has grazing rights for it). He further alleged over the phone to the police that someone on a horse had 'attempted to run him down' and that we were illegally hunting. In reality it was a trail hunt and one mounted rider had simply ridden up to him and asked him to stop taking photos of the children. The police actually sent two vehicles out to see him, by which time we'd long moved on, and I think that's a massive waste of police time and taxpayers' resources.

ETA: With regard to the stereotyping, some people think I'm a bit stuck up because they have this view that hunting is for 'toffs'. We're essentially a farmers hunt; as one farmer/racehorse trainer who hunts with us put it, 'we ride to hunt, not hunt to ride'!

 

[Marydoll]

Would this not be better in hunting ?

 

[sparrowfree]

Would this not be better in hunting ?

Please note the comment at the end of my post. I have also posted it in Hunting but felt that it would be seen more here, and therefore gain more responses.

Thank you everyone for your experiences so far!

 

[paulineh]

Interesting SarahThomas. Taking photography's of children without their parents permission is an affence and the police can do something about that.

As a photographer I always need to watch what I'm taking. Taking a picture with a child in the back ground is different but knowing and taking close up pictures is wrong.

 

[Marydoll]

Please note the comment at the end of my post. I have also posted it in Hunting but felt that it would be seen more here, and therefore gain more responses.

Thank you everyone for your experiences so far!

My apologies, i mustve skimmed and missed it

 

[Crosshill Pacers]

Interesting SarahThomas. Taking photography's of children without their parents permission is an affence and the police can do something about that.

As a photographer I always need to watch what I'm taking. Taking a picture with a child in the back ground is different but knowing and taking close up pictures is wrong.

Indeed, which is why I made a quick move to get the girls off the hill (they innocently were smiling and waving at him) and another person requested that he stop doing so. My dad also made this point loudly whilst the gentleman was on the phone to the police, but I believe my parents had moved off by the time the police actually turned up so nobody took it any further. My mum was actually quite upset that he continued to take close up photos of her despite her asking him to stop, because he was definitely trying to provoke a reaction from her and my dad.

 

[CrazyMare]

I've never had any do anything to me personally, but one threatened to punch my Dad once. Quite why as Dad is quite a physically intimidating size and build, I don't know!

Often had police cars/helicopters out!!

 

[dogatemysalad]

Interesting SarahThomas. Taking photography's of children without their parents permission is an affence and the police can do something about that.

As a photographer I always need to watch what I'm taking. Taking a picture with a child in the back ground is different but knowing and taking close up pictures is wrong.

Er, no, it's not. there is no law about taking pictures of children in public.

 

[Kathyt]

or anything in public for that matter. I think the argument here would be that he was causing you distress by his intimidating behaviour.

 

[marianne1981]

It did make me smile, the post about the sabs taking the hounds, leaving a hunt without hounds! You have to admit, that is pretty clever! I have heard some pro hunters say that some of the sabs blow the horn so beautifully, that they put the master to shame!

 

[Alec Swan]

It did make me smile, the post about the sabs taking the hounds, leaving a hunt without hounds! You have to admit, that is pretty clever! I have heard some pro hunters say that some of the sabs blow the horn so beautifully, that they put the master to shame!

How I agree with you, and especially when hounds are called across public highways by your heros, and into the path of traffic. Such elegance, and such acclaim.

I'd suggest that you take your ill thought through applause elsewhere.


Alec.

 

[Partridg3]

At the time, being new to all this, I actually felt a bit vulnerable. There were only a few straggling walking (older!) followers and a load of hounds and 6/7 folk in balaclavas. There was no humour at all it was seriously unpleasant with one of the antis laughing maniacally during it. We did have a minor win when we got the hounds together and away with just voices and whistles (hard work) but it was no match to them once they really started. I actually thought it was going to get extremely physical at one point.
I think the hunt played it perfectly upon reflection as they stood still out the way and didn't play into the provocation.

 

[marianne1981]

Alec, I am not getting into the rights and wrongs of it- I just think it is very clever, of anyone, if they could blow the horn like that.

 

[Alec Swan]

Alec, I am not getting into the rights and wrongs of it- I just think it is very clever, of anyone, if they could blow the horn like that.

Am I to assume from your reply that having offered support to those without moral or rightful argument, that you're sticking your fingers in your ears, and offering a la-la-la chorus?

You think that those who call errant or lost hounds away from their huntsmen, and with criminal intent, are "clever'? Honestly?

I suspect marianne1981, that you may be a little unbalanced.

Alec.

 

[Countryman]

I believe that the Cotswold Vale Farmers Hunt had hounds killed by traffic when "saboteurs" used a sound recording and speaker system to call hounds across a busy A-road.

Both Monitors and saboteurs, all round the country, routinely trespass and refuse to leave private property. They frequently grab reins and push horses to try and startle the riders into a reaction that they can film - this is evident in many of their own videos. They have repeatedly filmed children and followers for no reason other than to antagonise people - if they really wanted to monitor the hunting, they would have been filming the hounds!
Some monitors have "nudged" followers-including children - with their vehicles to get them to hurry up.
Some antis have driven their 4x4's down public bridleways which are not open to traffic. Photos are taken of hunt followers and posted online for vilification. I have had personal experience of these incidents.

I believe the Mid-Devon have had sabs drive their cars into the backs of horses.
The Surrey Union had sabs outside the kennels shouting abuse at the staff when they walked the hounds around the paddocks to give them their exercise. A sab was convicted for this.
Verbal abuse is common, with many monitors and sabs, with hateful language often filled with expletives or criticising people's appearances - or that of their children.
In Yorkshire last year, a hunt Master was targeted at his farm on a non-hunting morning, knocked off his quad bike by a gang of balaclava'd thugs and beaten up - all in front of his young daughter.
The grave of a Hunt Master was dug up around 9 years ago - they planned to send the head to Princess Anne allegedly to show their displeasure of her hunting.
10 years ago in Kent, a gang of around 50, in balaclavas, attacked the homes of the hunt staff near the kennels at night, forcing their families to flee. There was also an instance of a pack of beagles being stolen.
In the news recently, two sabs were arrested in Yorkshire for assault and criminal damage.
Others attempt to cause disruption by padlocking gates-disrupting farmers, but also meaning hunt staff cannot get to their hounds, endangering them.

And of course, in 2009, "peaceable" hunt monitors decapitated a hunt follower in Warwickshire with a gyrocopter...

I have had more personal experiences of anti-hunt monitors with my local hunt-I will PM you.

 

[paulineh]

Er, no, it's not. there is no law about taking pictures of children in public.

I think you will find there is. If I go to an event and I know there are children I need to ask the parents. Schools can stop you taking pictures at any event they have.

 

[paulineh]

I once had a pony that when you put pressure just in front of the saddle would kick out. Very useful if the antis were around. If I was ever challenged I would always say that horses are unpredictable.

 

[Countryman]

I think you will find there is. If I go to an event and I know there are children I need to ask the parents. Schools can stop you taking pictures at any event they have.

While schools may not let you take pictures on the premises, if you have a right to be where you are e.g on a public road, unfortunately there is no law stopping you taking pictures of what you can reasonably see from that position - even of children.

 

[wench]

I have just experienced the general stuff:

They turn up wearing balaclavas. Then proceed to ride their motorbike across the farmers crops, whilst the hunt is very politely going around the fields on the farm track.

Taking pictures of small children out following the hunt, and intimidating them and making them cry. Whilst out hunting in a woods (where there are tracks we go down that are just over one horse's width), laying down on the path in-between the hounds and the field. That has to be a very stupid thing to do.

Best one I had was one of these morons was stood next to the path in the woods, clothed from head to foot in black. I knew my horse would spook violently at seeing this person. My prediction was correct - Henry jumped about three foot sideways, admittedly it was away from the anti, but the anti was that scared when she saw Henry jumping, she jumped in the other direction.

As for playing a horn, anyone that plays a brass instrument can play one. I can certainly get a better tune out of a horn than some hunt staff I know - so it's not really a very clever trick after all!

 

[Double_choc_lab]

The grave of a Hunt Master was dug up around 9 years ago - they planned to send the head to Princess Anne allegedly to show their displeasure of her hunting.

Countryman - I'm afraid it's a case of "time flies". The attempt to dig up the Duke of Beauforts grave was Boxing Day morning 1984 - I remember it well as I was with a friend who was called in to investigate. Horrific incident but back in the 80s it was a time of very volatile sabbing.

 

[Potato!]

I believe that the Cotswold Vale Farmers Hunt had hounds killed by traffic when "saboteurs" used a sound recording and speaker system to call hounds across a busy A-road.

Both Monitors and saboteurs, all round the country, routinely trespass and refuse to leave private property. They frequently grab reins and push horses to try and startle the riders into a reaction that they can film - this is evident in many of their own videos. They have repeatedly filmed children and followers for no reason other than to antagonise people - if they really wanted to monitor the hunting, they would have been filming the hounds!
Some monitors have "nudged" followers-including children - with their vehicles to get them to hurry up.
Some antis have driven their 4x4's down public bridleways which are not open to traffic. Photos are taken of hunt followers and posted online for vilification. I have had personal experience of these incidents.

I believe the Mid-Devon have had sabs drive their cars into the backs of horses.
The Surrey Union had sabs outside the kennels shouting abuse at the staff when they walked the hounds around the paddocks to give them their exercise. A sab was convicted for this.
Verbal abuse is common, with many monitors and sabs, with hateful language often filled with expletives or criticising people's appearances - or that of their children.
In Yorkshire last year, a hunt Master was targeted at his farm on a non-hunting morning, knocked off his quad bike by a gang of balaclava'd thugs and beaten up - all in front of his young daughter.
The grave of a Hunt Master was dug up around 9 years ago - they planned to send the head to Princess Anne allegedly to show their displeasure of her hunting.
10 years ago in Kent, a gang of around 50, in balaclavas, attacked the homes of the hunt staff near the kennels at night, forcing their families to flee. There was also an instance of a pack of beagles being stolen.
In the news recently, two sabs were arrested in Yorkshire for assault and criminal damage.
Others attempt to cause disruption by padlocking gates-disrupting farmers, but also meaning hunt staff cannot get to their hounds, endangering them.

And of course, in 2009, "peaceable" hunt monitors decapitated a hunt follower in Warwickshire with a gyrocopter...

I have had more personal experiences of anti-hunt monitors with my local hunt-I will PM you.

I go out with the Mid devon and can vouch for the fact that Anti's have run the terrier man off the road, driven into the horses and caused all sorts of issues. The last meet i attened on horse back their were police in attedance at the meet as they had recieved a tip off that there was going to trouble. I have decided that the risk is now too great as i tend to come away fairly early and feel too vunerable.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Some years ago; and I'd rather not mention the hunt TBH but those that were out that day would no doubt remember it............ there was an incident where some people who were NOT known to be followers (putting it as succinctly as possible here) were seen with an animal in a small box, something similar to a large cat box. No-one had a clue what they were doing - but several people remarked on what was in there and speculated as to what it was. No-one knew what the animal was - and hounds were about a quarter of a mile away; attempts were being made to draw them away from the place where they were (trees/covert) as it was very close to a busy main road.

Suddenly there was all hell let loose; someone holloa'd ................ it all happened incredibly quickly. One minute hounds were being called away, to a safer place, the next minute someone had said they'd seen a fox on the loose - where previously there was all peace and quiet and hounds were being gently ushered away. No sign of the fox before this, hounds hadn't scented it. Then suddenly, right close to a busy dual carriageway, there was a fox.

And the box that some people had seen with a "creature" in it???? Clean gone and the people with it no-where to be seen.

Imagine the carnage that would have ensued had it not been for the very skillful whipping-in and expertise of the hunt staff on this occasion - and how pleasing for the LACS to say that hounds had chased some poor fox onto a busy dual carriageway. Never mind the hounds, and very likely people, that would have met their end along with it.

I know people who were there on this occasion; and all of them verified that this actually happened.

 

[Isbister]

I used to hunt on foot with a pack of beagles in the late 70s to early 80s and from time to time there was some quite unpleasant business in those days - ugly confrontations on private land with a lot of unpleasant aggravation which, had extreme restraint not been exercised on our part, could definitely have become very violent indeed. I don't know when hunt-sabbing first started, but it had been going on a long time already back then. The sabbs travelled quite considerable distances to cause trouble, but never seemed very well dressed for the weather, somehow.

The key then - as now - was secrecy about the meet. Of course they tried following various individuals to and from where they lived, so sometimes decoys and subterfuge had to be used.

My impression now is that they are rather less of a problem, but perhaps that just depends where you hunt.

 

[Countryman]

The grave of a Hunt Master was dug up around 9 years ago - they planned to send the head to Princess Anne allegedly to show their displeasure of her hunting.

Countryman - I'm afraid it's a case of "time flies". The attempt to dig up the Duke of Beauforts grave was Boxing Day morning 1984 - I remember it well as I was with a friend who was called in to investigate. Horrific incident but back in the 80s it was a time of very volatile sabbing.

Ah very true yes sorry. Animal Rights activists haven't lost their taste for such behaviour though - I mixed up that incident with this one http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/may/11/animalwelfare.world

 

[fburton]

While schools may not let you take pictures on the premises, if you have a right to be where you are e.g on a public road, unfortunately there is no law stopping you taking pictures of what you can reasonably see from that position - even of children.

Why is it unfortunate? Basic civil liberty, I'd have thought. Where is the harm?