Experiences with Kent and Masters?

[AlDestoor]

Hi guys,

I recently bought a thoroughbred and had a saddle fitted. It was a Kent and Masters.

Fast forward 3 months, my dope on a rope thoroughbred went up and over when weight was put in the saddle. Completely unlike him and such a kneed jerk reaction I'm in a bit of a shock.

Hes going to be seen by a vet and physio this week and I'm requesting x Ray's to be sure.

However, I spoke to an experienced saddler yesterday and she asked me if my saddle was K&M. She said that she has seen a number of horses come to her with issues similar following being fitted with these saddles due to tree flexing and the bars coming down too far.

I just wondered what peoples thoughts were?

Hes fed on Allen and Page Soothe and Gain with a bit of mollichaff and gastriaid. His teeth were done 2 months ago.

He was so dopey beforehand like normal, literally as soon as weight went in the saddle.

I lunged and leaned over last night in the saddle and did the same again. I'm going lunge and lean over with no tack tonight to see if that makes a difference.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

I have a Kent & Masters GP, bought it brand new and it has the widest gullet fitted which fits my WB perfectly. He is a sensitive type and lets me know straight away if there is a problem with anything and I can honestly say he has never so much as flinched when the saddle has gone on and I have sat on him.

 

[Myloubylou]

If fitted 3 months ago as new then will have settled & is due a check. My mare had extreme reaction to her saddle, and was due to having put weight on and not being comfortable.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I don’t currently own a K&M saddle, but have done in the past. IMHO they are very good saddles for the money. I’ve never heard of this happening.

They don’t fit every horse, though. I wonder if these saddles were correctly fitted, or if the horses have changed shape since the fitting.

 

[AlDestoor]

I'm just exploring my options and with her guessing my saddle- it threw me a little.

Obviously I'm having him thoroughly checked before anything goes on his back.

Hes not changed that much in 3 months but I'm starting to hear increasingly alarming things about my saddle fitter so I'm concerned as I've used him for years but on chunkier types.

 

[TPO]

I've had good experiences with K&M however a few things come to mind...

The "bending" tree thing can be an issue with adjustable headpiece saddles. Some people think that by putting in a wider "gullet" that these saddles will fit anything. All these "gullets" do is change the width at the front. They don't widen the gullet and the tree had to fit the horse's back. If you have a standard saddle and put an XXX wide gullet in it then basic physics show that this has to affect the rest of the saddle and ultimately affect the shape of the tree. So while not a specific K&M issue its something to keep in mind when using adjustable headpiece saddles.

Secondly 3mths/12wks is plenty of time for a horse to change shape. Most saddle fitters offer a free check up 12wks after selling a saddle. So his reaction might be saddle related but this isnt necessary a reflection on the brand

 

[Bs_mum]

I have a K&M for all of mine apart from one (don’t come wide enough for her) wouldn’t ride in anything else. Absolutely love the saddles and love the fit on my horses. I’ve never had a problem with any of mine but mine are checked regularly.
Maybe it’s more of a saddler issue than the actual saddle

 

[Lady Jane]

Had one for years, checked regularly, no problems. A new saddle will definitely have settled after 3 months and should be checked

 

[Barton Bounty]

Tbs are very very sensitive, defo get it checked, the first saddle fitter fitted a k&m high wither to my boy in error!! He did the same as u, 🙄

 

[Carrottom]

Is it on the "compact " tree? I have heard of this tree causing problems. I agree with previous advice that a new saddle needs to be checked after a couple of months depending on how often it is used. I'm surprised your saddler didn't tell you this.

 

[Suechoccy]

I have a K&M GPH and a K&M GPD, both bought brand new from a master saddler and fitted by that saddler, with yearly saddle checks and adjustments by that saddle. Both horses go very well in them, these saddles are lightweight and have stood up to everyday use and hacking very well. Only complaint is dye on one has faded badly.

 

[bubsqueaks]

Yes we had one on our Connie - would never ever have one again & strongly believe they are so misleading to people & doing a lot of horses an injustice.
As above we were guilty of thinking changeable head plate so fine - but just look at the finger width in the gullet - ours was bridging his back & Im still hoping it was the main issue for his bronking & causing an ulcer flare up - they seem very popular because they are reasonably priced & misconceive people into thinking they are easily changed - yes they are at the front but thats not the whole picture.
It will be interesting to see how he reacts without the saddle although he may be anticipating the pain now or still have unknown pain somewhere else - take care.

 

[scats]

I have a Kent and masters GP. It was fitted to my little sports horse and despite it being fitted properly to the horse, once I got in the saddle, it put me in a dreadful chair seat.
The same saddle was then fitted to my part bred welsh and I ride in it fine, in correct alignment. It was very odd. I ride in it all the time.

I didn’t get on with the Kent and masters dressage saddle though. Neither did my horse.

 

[HeyMich]

I had a new K&M saddle fitted last year and have had it checked and re-flocked several times since, as the saddler told me that the flocking would settle on any new saddle (and it did!). Overall, I'm really happy with it. My horse also, annoyingly, changes shape constantly through the year, so regular saddle checks are an absolute must - we average a check/change gullet/re-flock every 2-3 months! Gah!

OP - I'm just wondering if there's something else going on with your horse, as it seems a fairly strong reaction that you're seeing - I'd ask the vet about KS maybe? Let us know what happens when you put pressure on his back with no saddle.

 

[sbloom]

Is it on the "compact " tree? I have heard of this tree causing problems. I agree with previous advice that a new saddle needs to be checked after a couple of months depending on how often it is used. I'm surprised your saddler didn't tell you this.

I believe the compact tree is just the standard tree, it's the panel that differs, as it is with the high wither version. I may be wrong as I don't fit them. The Compact is a deeper seat than the PC or Cob so I've never seen the point, it's very curvy for a flat back, and many short backs are pretty flat.

I have not particularly heard of this issue with the tree shape and bars but yes, a saddle should always be checked between 1 and 3 months from new, and a horse doesn't have to change much (they change from morning to evening!) for it to affect saddle fit, and just a small settling of the flocking at the front may have brought the bars lower. However if the tree is a bit curvy for your horse then the bars can just end up too close to the horse, I see it often.

I would have him checked by a vet for the incident/reaction but would also be looking at saddle, get the original fitter to come and do a regular check, it might just be that.

 

[AGray825]

I don't have a K&M, but I do have a Thorowgood (Cob GP) on my Welsh mare and it's not great to be honest (better than what I used to have though!). Once I've saved enough cash I'm planning on having her fitted for an AH saddle but we're having to do for now. My saddle fitter has said that the saddle isn't hurting her in anyway, but it's not exactly super comfy for either of us and she's a sensitive soul.
I find mine tips me forward and if I try to force myself back it puts too much pressure behind for her so she shoots off! Not helpful for a pony that is on the forehand anyway but putting a sheepskin PE cloth under it seems to have helped somewhat and come spring we should have enough money for a nice saddle for her!

 

[bubsqueaks]

Is it on the "compact " tree? I have heard of this tree causing problems. I agree with previous advice that a new saddle needs to be checked after a couple of months depending on how often it is used. I'm surprised your saddler didn't tell you this.

That's interesting - Ive just checked & ours was indeed the S Series Compact do you have any further info/details ?

 

[cold_feet]

I’ve had my K&M about 6 months, fitted by a master saddler and checked after 6 weeks as horse changed shape. Reflocked and gullet changed. He goes well in it, and I find it really comfortable. Very happy with it. Leather quality not as good as my Albion (which I was never really comfortable in) but that was twice the price.

 

[Goldenstar]

Fatty came with one it was a good cheap saddle I sold it when he got slim .
OP three months on I think your first port of call should be the saddle settling ( totally normal ) or the horse changing shape also totally normal as well .
What does the saddle fit look like to you ?
Many physios do a saddle fitting course if yours has that’s the place to start .

 

[TPO]

I don't have a K&M, but I do have a Thorowgood (Cob GP) on my Welsh mare and it's not great to be honest (better than what I used to have though!). Once I've saved enough cash I'm planning on having her fitted for an AH saddle but we're having to do for now. My saddle fitter has said that the saddle isn't hurting her in anyway, but it's not exactly super comfy for either of us and she's a sensitive soul.
I find mine tips me forward and if I try to force myself back it puts too much pressure behind for her so she shoots off! Not helpful for a pony that is on the forehand anyway but putting a sheepskin PE cloth under it seems to have helped somewhat and come spring we should have enough money for a nice saddle for her!

In the nicest possible way that doesnt sound like it fits and you should perhaps look for a halfway house just now rather than wait until you've saved enough for a new AH saddle.

The longer you continue with a saddle that doesnt fit the higher future Bill's might be for physio, time off etc for the horse as risking bruising and atrophy and the chance of developing behavioural issues through pain/discomfort.

It's not really fair to judge brands when they dont fit as that's not a true reflection of their quality or not.

 

[bubsqueaks]

I have a Kent and masters GP. It was fitted to my little sports horse and despite it being fitted properly to the horse, once I got in the saddle, it put me in a dreadful chair seat.
The same saddle was then fitted to my part bred welsh and I ride in it fine, in correct alignment. It was very odd. I ride in it all the time.

I didn’t get on with the Kent and masters dressage saddle though. Neither did my horse.

Yes scats I found the chair like position awful & also the stirrup bars used to dig into legs as well.

 

[AGray825]

In the nicest possible way that doesnt sound like it fits and you should perhaps look for a halfway house just now rather than wait until you've saved enough for a new AH saddle.

The longer you continue with a saddle that doesnt fit the higher future Bill's might be for physio, time off etc for the horse as risking bruising and atrophy and the chance of developing behavioural issues through pain/discomfort.

It's not really fair to judge brands when they dont fit as that's not a true reflection of their quality or not.

Hmm.... perhaps I might see if I can get an appointment with the other saddle fitter that's near me....
She is seen quite regularly by both a vet/chiro (trained as a vet first and then as a chiropractor) and apart from the issues with her neck (a problem she developed due to previous rider's keeping her in a tight contact all the time) she's never reported any back problems, in fact she said for a pony of 19 she has a lovely back/hind end
Same story from the McTimoney person I have that sees her every 3-6 months, never had a complaint over her back just stiffness through her neck and poll

But I'll get her booked in with Mark Fisher and see if he thinks that saddle is no good for her.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I used a K&M for a while with Skylla, she had a very extreme reaction to what she considered too narrow a gullet (she measures a medium but we had to fit a MW). I have been told since, that the tree points are quite long on them so might have been what she objected to, she objected at the fitting though and was fine afterwards with the technically too wide version...

I also found it did my position no favours, though it was a nice saddle for the money!

 

[Carrottom]

I have a thorowgood gp on the standard tree which I was told (by my saddle fitter) is different to the compact.
When I needed a second saddle for my new horse he told me to avoid the compact tree, I don't recall the details.

 

[Shoei]

I have a dressage k and m and both me and horse love it. I was advised to get it checked after 3 months though when I had it new due to settling i think, but i generally get it checked every 4 months anyway