Experiences with misaligned pelvis/backs?

[metalmare]

The back lady did her first treatment on Kes yesterday. He has a misaligned pelvis which in turn has caused his shoulders and neck to become crooked and his muscle development to become uneven. It has caused tension and is stopping him flexing laterally or over his topline.

She massaged then manipulated him which unlocked and straightened his pelvis, although his right hip bone dropped slightly. She also unlocked his shoulders and neck and straightened his spine.

This has shown real muscle atrophy on his right side and I have to build this up so that it supports his correct skeletal alignment. The back lady will come out in 6/8 weeks or so (I have to ring her after a month to report progress) and realign as she says it will have reverted to some extent.

In the meantime I have to do daily carrot stretches, lunge in walk and trot on the right rein and in canter on the left rein and give him a month off ridden work.

Does anyone have any similar experiences / advice?

I'm excited though because she says by the end of the summer he will be a different horse!

 

[Spotsrock]

He will be. We've had several bought cheap as 'unlevel' invested in a little treatment and discovered cracking little horse underneath. B1 slipped a disc and was completely fixed by my mctimoney though she still has to have her special saddle. After a treatment she's a different horse. Stick with is and he'll thank you.

 

[metalmare]

That's brill - I'm feeling so positive! This little chap really deserves a second chance in life because everything about him tells me he's been yanked about, badly ridden and sold on all his life.

Yet he still loves people.

 

[Tobiano]

Good for you for giving him a chance! Carrot stretches work wonders.

 

[metalmare]

To be fair, I didn't know about his back when I bought him, but I would still have had him knowing what I do now. And it's another learning experience that will only help me to become a more knowledgeable horse owner.

 

[Twinkle Twinkle]

My last pony had a misaligned pelvis the back lady came out every 3 months for about a year and then we got it to 6 months between visits. He went well having this done its expensive but well worth it

 

[emma.is]

My mare bronced because of a misalinged pelvis, 3 months later and she truely is a different horse!!

 

[metalmare]

To be fair, at 50 pounds a treatment, I think it's great value if it gets him right. Think of all the rubbish you could waste 50 pounds on...!

 

[metalmare]

I must stop saying 'to be fair'

Thank you for the positive stories guys - I'm feeling so excited about the coming year now!

 

[Chocy]

Sounds very similar 2 my horse- uneven pelvis, inabilty 2 bens correctly, shoulders tight due to what happening behind, sore back muscles/ligaments due 2 holding himself stiff all the time.

I had quite intensive physio on him- 5 sessions in 2 weeks including manipulation & ultrasound
Then on2 'rehab' programme of lunging (would highly recommend using equi-ami) then ridden work
Complicated my ill-fitting saddles (both of them!) Now have 1 usable saddle & very different horsey! Lesson last night for 1 time & instructor noticed huge difference- longer stride, more regularity 2 stride, maintains outline more consistently & her words were 'nice 2 c hes got his swagger back'!!
He lost some of his personality while being so sore/miserable & its now back with a bang- 2nite speciality was running out squealing then doing passage along fence line winding up the horses in nxt field! Grrrr but nice 2 have him back!

 

[Antw23uk]

Thanks for sharing, will be interested in hearing about his process. I ad my new mare booked in to be seen but cancelled due to weather. I think she will defo benefit from seeing a specialist

 

[Horseyjen!]

I had the exact same problem with my horse, after a lot of mc timoney treatments the pelvis held but a few weeks later i found out why he had moved in a way to make his pelvis drop like that and cause the knock on effect with his shoulder and neck - it was due to pain in his hind leg so i would get everything checked just incase there is a hidden route cause. Mine was calcification of his splint bones so it was encroaching on the space and rubbing on the suspensory ligament which only showed up on xray.

I have had kinesio taping with my horse to help repair and build the muscles in the atrophied side its amazing it makes them walk straight when they have the tape on def worth looking at if anyone does it in your area.

 

[catwithclaws]

I'm having quite a few issues with MM's pelvis being misaligned at the moment - had a mctimoney chiropractor out 3 times in 10 weeks. It starts with stiffness, and not following through from behind on the right rein. It doesn't worry MM at all, and she doesn't go unsound, she is just that tiny bit 'off'. But she is 21 now so I guess it's just part and parcel of getting older. We are currently working on building muscle correctly to 'hold' the pelvis in place, so lunging in the Pessoa and plenty of flat work long and low combined with hacking up hills will get us there. At £40 a treatment it's getting pretty expensive - thank god for the £10 voucher I got for Xmas!

 

[Daytona]

Had this conversation with a very in the know vet at Xmas time

He said its the biggest load of gobbled goop - mis aligned anything , he said if you horse had a Mis aligned pelvis of such like it would be on the ground unable to move - ie totally dislocated

And no human could put a horses pelvis back in place.

He said a massage is beneficial like it is to human but all these "back" folks who speak about misaligned skeletal bits on horses are just filling owners heads full of rubbish.

This vet is right up to speed with equine issues , travels to all the conferences, research meetings etc, not just some out of date old school vet.

 

[Asha]

Had this conversation with a very in the know vet at Xmas time

He said its the biggest load of gobbled goop - mis aligned anything , he said if you horse had a Mis aligned pelvis of such like it would be on the ground unable to move - ie totally dislocated

And no human could put a horses pelvis back in place.

He said a massage is beneficial like it is to human but all these "back" folks who speak about misaligned skeletal bits on horses are just filling owners heads full of rubbish.

This vet is right up to speed with equine issues , travels to all the conferences, research meetings etc, not just some out of date old school vet.

I get what your saying here, maybe the terminology is wrong ?

My rising 4 YO, was standing awkward, sensitive to touch on his back. I got the back chap out. He pushed, pulled and tweaked, a crack and a pop was heard. Hes now better. Not sensitive and is standing correct. ( his back end was clenched tight underneath him)

I will be getting the vet to do an all round MOT on him, just to make sure there are no underlying causes.

Had a fab pony years ago. Her pelvis 'was out' frequently, back lady would come out would work her magic, leaving the pony so much better. This went on regularly. So got the vet to check her, and surprise surprise arthritis. She was 'holding herself' because of the pain and stiffness in her hocks. So in reality, was her pelvis out ? Nope, probably just causing stiffness in that region. But, it did help

 

[Copperpot]

I'm with Ludoctro I'm afraid. After spending god knows how much on having my horses back done every 6 weeks and being told his pelvis was "out" I finally had x rays taken and he has DJD of the hocks. Usually it's always a reaction to something wrong somewhere else. And no human can physically manipulate a horses pelvis. Yes they can treat the muscles around it but not the actual pelvis. Besides mine had fractured his as a young horse and to put it back in alignment she would of had to re break it as it healed slightly on the wonk!

 

[starsky]

I think that people on this thread have different understanding of 'misaligned'. Obviously if misaligned meant dislocated the horse would be lying on the floor unable to get up. In the OPs case think of misaligned as 'unlevel'.

The pelvis is made up of 2 ilium and the sacrum. The 3 bones are held together by ligaments to form the pelvic ring. Numerous other muscles and ligaments also join the pelvis.

The pelvis can be 'misaligned' if one of those ligaments are strained or sprained. Ask any human who has had a problem with their sacroiliac joint how painful that is. Horses can be affected in the same way. Likewise if a muscle attached to the pelvis is damaged it will probably be in a state of contraction meaning the muscle tendon will pull on the pelvis where it attaches, causing an increased torsion on one side of the pelvis. Contraction or damage to ligaments or muscles attached to any of the 3 pelvic bones can certainly cause an imbalance in the pelvis.

I have heard comments like 'you would need a sledgehammer to put a pelvis back in'. Well of course that depends on the proper diagnosis of 'misaligned', but horses pelvis's can be treated in a similar way to human's. Muscle techniques and manipulations can be used to release stuck joints or relax contracted muscles etc. Equine chiropractors and osteopaths use the same techniques on horses as they do for humans, just adapted to the different structural anatomy.

If your horse is standing square and you look at the top of its rump from behind the muscle either side of the spine should even on both sides. If one side is higher or lower this often leads to a diagnosis of 'out' or 'misaligned'. I do wish though that the people giving these diagnoses would then explain what that actually means in terms of joint mobility, musculoskeletal issues etc.

 

[metalmare]

The practitioner put her hands on his hip bones and as soon as she did that I could clearly see that one hip was several inches forward of the other. Then she did the treatment. She then put her hands back on his hip bones and they were level, but the right side had dropped slightly.

So something definitely happened, although I'm no vet so I wouldn't like to give a name to what happened!

I appreciate that there must be an underlying cause that has led to this and that it could be a nasty surprise, but for now I'm hoping that it's a fairly innocent explanation. His previous novice owner of 3 years was a big rider for a little pony and the general consensus from both the saddler and the McTimoney is that 3 years of crooked riding has probably forced the horse to mould to the rider. It might not be the explanation, but it could well be.

He's rising 13 so I would be disappointed if it is arthritis or similar already, although I don't know his past history... he could have had a hard life.

 

[metalmare]

From how it was explained to me, a crooked rider would lead the horse to contort to an extent, thus leading to irregular muscle development, which would in turn twist the spine. The massage released the muscles, the spine was then straightened and now the exercises should help to rebuild the muscles correctly so that they keep the spine straight. But this will take more than one treatment as it will take time for the muscles to regain enough strength.

That's my understanding of my pony's particular case... but it might not be the whole picture.

 

[philamena]

I think that people on this thread have different understanding of 'misaligned'. Obviously if misaligned meant dislocated the horse would be lying on the floor unable to get up. In the OPs case think of misaligned as 'unlevel'.

The pelvis is made up of 2 ilium and the sacrum. The 3 bones are held together by ligaments to form the pelvic ring. Numerous other muscles and ligaments also join the pelvis.

The pelvis can be 'misaligned' if one of those ligaments are strained or sprained. Ask any human who has had a problem with their sacroiliac joint how painful that is. Horses can be affected in the same way. Likewise if a muscle attached to the pelvis is damaged it will probably be in a state of contraction meaning the muscle tendon will pull on the pelvis where it attaches, causing an increased torsion on one side of the pelvis. Contraction or damage to ligaments or muscles attached to any of the 3 pelvic bones can certainly cause an imbalance in the pelvis.

I have heard comments like 'you would need a sledgehammer to put a pelvis back in'. Well of course that depends on the proper diagnosis of 'misaligned', but horses pelvis's can be treated in a similar way to human's. Muscle techniques and manipulations can be used to release stuck joints or relax contracted muscles etc. Equine chiropractors and osteopaths use the same techniques on horses as they do for humans, just adapted to the different structural anatomy.

If your horse is standing square and you look at the top of its rump from behind the muscle either side of the spine should even on both sides. If one side is higher or lower this often leads to a diagnosis of 'out' or 'misaligned'. I do wish though that the people giving these diagnoses would then explain what that actually means in terms of joint mobility, musculoskeletal issues etc.

^^^This. This debate is a bit wearisome when essentially it comes down to sloppy use of terminology. 'Out of correct alignment' (ie not as straight as it would be on a diagram of the skeleton) rather than 'out'. Pelvises can very easily be being held out of correct alignment with one side further forward, by muscles on one side being in spasm, same as yours or my hips could be wonky from a tight muscle on one side. It's also true that there is usually a different cause for most misalignment (I don't think as many horses have falls in the field as chiros and physios tend to cite as the cause) but problems in the poll, legs, feet would all feed into how equally or otherwise the back and bum muscles work, potentially causing or worsening misalignment by putting muscles which hold the bone into spasm in one area, thus wonkeying the bone. So in this debate here, it feels like everyone's right, they're just confusing the terminology.

 

[indie999]

Had this conversation with a very in the know vet at Xmas time

He said its the biggest load of gobbled goop - mis aligned anything , he said if you horse had a Mis aligned pelvis of such like it would be on the ground unable to move - ie totally dislocated

And no human could put a horses pelvis back in place.

He said a massage is beneficial like it is to human but all these "back" folks who speak about misaligned skeletal bits on horses are just filling owners heads full of rubbish.

This vet is right up to speed with equine issues , travels to all the conferences, research meetings etc, not just some out of date old school vet.

I absolutely agree with this. From a human perspective everyone is wonky. No one is symmetrical so I was just thinking the same that I cant think a horse is symmetrical. Most of us are not perfect but wonky. We all have a strong side and a weak side ie right handed/left handed so am guessing horses are same. But if it works thats great.

 

[metalmare]

It's not the same as being left / right handed though, when your spine is twisted. And there are different degrees of being wonky. This could range from being healthy but not being athletic through to being disabled, surely?

This is a horse whose back was slightly banana shaped, with a bulk of muscle on one side and little on the other... how can that be conducive to being athletic in ridden work? His muscles were so tight he was unable to flex at the poll which explains him head shaking when I asked him to work on the bit.

Anyhow, it's my money I'm being parted from and I'm happy with the treatment thus far... if after 6 months or so I think it's a load of hogwash I will update!

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

My loan mare has problems with misaligned pelvic/back area due to previous injury: having spoken and consulted with her owner there isn't, IMO, any "ONE" solution, its a mixture of veterinarians, alternative therapists such as McTimoney - and also not forgetting the importance of remedial farriery and correct (experienced) saddle fitting. These last two are absolutely fundamental and shouldn't be under-estimated.

Also...... giving the situation time, and listening to the horse. Some horses will never come back sound, but might be OK for say ordinary hacking and maybe pop a fence or two occasionally and even hunt now and then; others WILL, with care, be able to continue with the same level of work, whilst needing to be a bit careful obviously.

 

[siennamum]

I think the problem is that the misalignment is a symptom but is treated by back people as a stand alone problem. If your horse has had a slip in the field or you are crooked, it could cause the horse to become crooked so fair play, lets hope that is the real reason.

Generally though the pelvis LOOKS crooked because there is a problem somewhere else which is causing the horse to compensate. While you are spending months getting regular massages and manipulation your horse continues to have arthritic changes in the hock, issues in a lower leg, unbalanced feet, poorly fitted tack, teeth which need attention, kissing spines, EPSM, Ulcers or to be badly ridden - take your pick.

It is ethically wrong and illegal for a back person diagnoses a misaligned, twisted or rotated pelvis if the horse has not had a full workup from a vet to properly understand the cause.

 

[metalmare]

The pony is not unsound or showing symptoms of discomfort or pain; he simply isn't performing as well as I would like.

The vet gave permission for the back lady to come out and she is sending the vet a report.

I have full confidence in my trimmer to ensure that the pony's feet are balanced.

The pony had his teeth rasped a couple of months ago.

I don't doubt that the saddle that came with him may be part of the issue, however the back lady has advised that I wait for his muscles to develop before buying another. I did have the saddler out a few months ago though and she said the saddle was okay... being Cair though one of the panels has flattened slightly in response to his muscles, hence the need for a new saddle.

So I do have a team of people, including the back lady, trimmer, dentist and saddler working together to support the horse, with the blessing of the vet.

I don't believe I am crooked, although I would be perfectly willing to get my own back checked and I do have an instructor coming out when he is back in work. I have regular lessons on other horses though and I have been told my position is fine.

I do believe he may have come from a crooked rider though, which affected his back, causing the saddle to alter, which may have caused a cycle of problems which have to be broken by the body worker and the saddler together. I'm planning on them fitting the new saddle jointly.

Only time will tell.

 

[skint1]

My Tb mare had a badly misaligned pelvis (at the time we were very novice owners and took us a long time to get to figure that out) and like your horse it effected her shoulder and all sorts. She was always hollow and unbalanced in the school no matter what my daughter tried and how many lessons she had. She was hard to get to go forward and very prone to spectacular tantrums too.

Initially, after 3 weekly appts the chiro came to her every 6 weeks. She became a lot less tantrumonious though she'll never be an easy horse to ride, she would actually go forward when asked and began to soften and work through. However, what really sealed it for her was getting her hoof balance addressed, she had some remedial farriery and after this she hardly ever needed any adjustment from the chiro and went from every 6 weeks to 1-2 times a year.

 

[metalmare]

Well, it's interesting the foot balance issue, because although my trimmer is FAB when the pony arrived his feet (barefoot) weren't in the best state. Although now, less than a year on, they are well balanced, the back problems could perhaps be a hang over from before when they weren't?

I really should make it clear that this is a healthy, happy pony who does work well and is perfectly sound, but that because my trimmer is so on the ball (she noticed slightly irregular wear in his feet) she suggested I get his back checked out. This is being done out of love and because I am a perfectionist, not because the horse is in a bad way!

There seems to be an assumption that I am treating this as a quick fix and not engaging all professionals... I don't know what would give anyone that idea. I engage fully with a range of professionals and take a very holistic view of horse management.

 

[siennamum]

Well, it's interesting the foot balance issue, because although my trimmer is FAB when the pony arrived his feet (barefoot) weren't in the best state. Although now, less than a year on, they are well balanced, the back problems could perhaps be a hang over from before when they weren't?

I really should make it clear that this is a healthy, happy pony who does work well and is perfectly sound, but that because my trimmer is so on the ball (she noticed slightly irregular wear in his feet) she suggested I get his back checked out. This is being done out of love and because I am a perfectionist, not because the horse is in a bad way!

There seems to be an assumption that I am treating this as a quick fix and not engaging all professionals... I don't know what would give anyone that idea. I engage fully with a range of professionals and take a very holistic view of horse management.

I apologise if that is how my thread came across, I really meant a 'you' as in people generally. Clearly you aren't fixing the symptom but are reviewing lots of potential issues. Plenty of people don't though and that is where I am coming from, there is a tendency to see the rotated pelvis line as a magic bullet.
How interesting (though not in a good way)_ that there were foot imbalance issues, I wonder to what degree this contributed to the back issue.

 

[metalmare]

Sorry siennamum, I didn't mean to be sensitive. Always the problem with forums

It will be interesting to see how it all pans out and I will update anyhow over the summer.


Thank you to everyone for their input

 

[MissP]

Hi Metalmare
Reading this thread, just wanted to say it sounds like you have your head screwed on and are doing the best for your pony I'm really interested to hear how it all went and if the treatment and month of exercises worked for him? Hope so!