Extra livery charges for soaking haynets (DIY)... WWYD?

[fuze]

I'm after some opinions, please!

Scenario:
- DIY yard
- £32.50 per week DIY livery
- Hay is supplied by yard, £40pm, green good quality hay, you can't supply your own forage
- My cob is a good doer
- He's out in the day (7am to 5.30pm), in at night
- I work full time, 8am - 5pm
- I've been struggling with cob's weight. His hay is weighed and soaked, he's worked most days, he isn't given hard feed, he's rarely rugged
- He's given between 4 and 5kg of hay per night. It's split between two haynets, meaning I use two tubs to soak them. They're filled so that hay is covered, not filled to the top. They're left to soak for 10hrs, then rinsed out
- On moving on, I was told there's year round turnout, only restriction is in at night in winter. Turnout is available every day
- I've been on the yard 7mths. No issues thus far, at all

Baring this in mind, what would your reaction be if YO told you (rather abruptly):
- Yard water is on a meter. You shouldn't be soaking haynets. You shouldn't be using so much water, you'll be charged for water usage if you don't pack it in.
- It's your own fault your horse is fat. You insist on turning out at the crack of dawn, he's one of the last out, and you wonder why he's fat. He shouldn't be turned out for so long.
- *On pointing out working hours* We offer morning turnout. You should be using it (turnout is £3 a day).
- There's no goodness in that hay. You're wasting your time (and our water) soaking it. It was cut late, if anything you should be supplementing it with vitamins (hay is nice, green hay. When soaked, the water is turning brown within minutes, by the time I pull it back out 10hrs later, the water is dark brown. Soaking has made a difference weight-wise).

What would you make of it? Reasonable? Unreasonable? People routinely hose legs down, wash tails out, and I'm not the only one to soak hay.

Opinions?

 

[teasle]

Is there any way of having a water butt ie free water?

 

[Fjord]

I soak hay daily and use the water in the buckets from my stable. They need to be changed anyway so rather than tipping them down the drain I pour them in my soaking bucket. Could you offer to do this to help reduce water usage? I can understand you not being happy about it, tbh water costs should be built into your livery in the beginning.

 

[Janesomerset]

Myself and another lady on our DIY livery yard have to soak all our hay. The water is on a meter and the previous (non-horsey) YO commented on the high water bills and said how on earth did that number of horses get through that much water? We did explain why we have to soak the hay and we offered to pay a little extra - but we were only paying £90 per month, not £130! The yard has just changed hands, the monthly rent has gone up to £100, and we are waiting for the new owner to receive the first water bill. I would not object to paying a little more for my yard water consumption because I am very happy on this yard and so is my horse. I do think it's unreasonable to single you out if other people soak hay or use lots of water washing their horses. I also think £130 per month should cover all your water!

 

[travelmad]

I thought water for agricultural use was classed differently and not like regular meters? (I'm not an expert but I'm sure there is different classifications and it can't be that expensive) Worth checking that out before you respond to them but personally I would be very unhappy about it.

 

[Janesomerset]

Forgot to say we also use the water from the stable buckets towards soaking the hay.

 

[unbalanced]

Would it be beneficial or just cause more conflict to have an analysis done of the hay to show its nutritional value? D&H do them for about £7.50 (or £40-something if you want vits and minerals done as well). Then you could say that a nutritionist has agreed with their point about feeding a mineral supplement (possibly) and also told you to soak your hay.
Or get your vet to advise you to do it. That's what I would have done at my old yard where the water was on a meter. We weren't even allowed to wash legs unless the vet had recommended cold hosing.
FWIW your cob is probably better off out on hardly any grass than in on good hay!
I have so much sympathy though - my pony has COPD but is in 24/7 and I am not allowed to steam hay so I have to feed haylage even though she has cushings.

 

[Mongoose11]

Soaking does help.... But if your YO won't let you soak from now on then you may need to move? Her rules whether you think it is reasonable or not. I would offer a token amount to cover extra water, maybe a pound or two a week? If the yard is brilliant other than water issues then is it worth kicking up about it. I LOVE my place and I soak hay, if my YO complained I would do whatever I could to appease the situation to be honest. What about muzzling if she won't let you soak? Tbh muzzling would probably help more than soaking...

 

[vieshot]

If it were just that they didn't want you using water to do hay I wouldn't be to miffed and would just offer a little extra.....but to basically be told you don't know how to manage your horses weight and that everything you are doing is wrong.....I would be gone!

 

[Polos Mum]

Have you been soaking hay for 7 months without issue? or is it new to soak hay? Strange if it's suddenly become an issue - could something else be bothering YO?

If the rest of the yard is perfect I'd offer to pay a little more to cover the cost of the water, or offer to get water butts to collect rainwater for soaking (but you'd need a lot and it would probably work out pretty expensive)

Could you swap some hay for straw to cut calories?

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

I thought water for agricultural use was classed differently and not like regular meters? (I'm not an expert but I'm sure there is different classifications and it can't be that expensive) Worth checking that out before you respond to them but personally I would be very unhappy about it.

If it's a proper livery yard then it's normally on a meter and the charges are quite high.

I think it is reasonable to ask someone to pay for extra water they use compared with the normal liveries if there is an direct extra cost to the yard but not to say they can't do it provided they are prepared to pay.

DIY livery yards do not on the whole make much money at all so I don't think it should be approached as though it is profiteering.

What would be undreasonable is if the OP agreed to pay the extra cost for the extra water and then still wasnt allowed to soak hay which she needs to from a health perspective. OP have you considered a grazing muzzle to allow the horse to keep the same hours of turnout but less intake of grass?

 

[Spring Feather]

Has everyone on the yard been asked to moderate their use of water? My farm has 3 wells so I don't pay for water thank goodness, but maybe your YO has just had a killer of a water bill come in and she's panicking a bit? If it were me I'd ask how much extra the water will be if you still use it at the same rate as you're doing, and I'd pay it for the convenience of being able to soak the hay on the yard. Alternatively you could bring filled water containers from home each day and use that water to soak your hay.

 

[AmyMay]

Reasonable re the water.

 

[D66]

Could you put the filled haynet in a large trug and take it home to soak? fiddly, but doable if you drive there.

 

[Spit That Out]

Not ideal but can you soak at home or bring water from home in containers otherwise invest in a steamer.

 

[skint1]

We don't soak but steam hay by using old Dengie bags and putting haynet in then pouring in a kettle of boiling water (you could use water from your buckets if you've got a kettle you can designate to this task) and pour in, tie bag up and voila, all steamed, not much water!

 

[Oliver12]

As has already been suggested, I would ask if I could provide oat straw and mix it with the hay 50/50.

 

[Clannad48]

Just a thought, we had this on a previous yard. I wonder if it is on 'normal' water rates and not business water rates. Any large increase in usage may warrant a query by the water company

 

[DragonSlayer]

Reasonable re the water.

I agree with this, metered water can be crippling if not kept an eye on. I imagine quite a few gallons are 'lost' through this technique.

I'd invest in a steamer or think about something else.

BUT.....I don't think the YO needed to rant a bit, just mentioning that the cost is too high on your current rental would have been sufficient.

 

[Wagtail]

If it's a proper livery yard then it's normally on a meter and the charges are quite high.

I think it is reasonable to ask someone to pay for extra water they use compared with the normal liveries if there is an direct extra cost to the yard but not to say they can't do it provided they are prepared to pay.

DIY livery yards do not on the whole make much money at all so I don't think it should be approached as though it is profiteering.

What would be undreasonable is if the OP agreed to pay the extra cost for the extra water and then still wasnt allowed to soak hay which she needs to from a health perspective. OP have you considered a grazing muzzle to allow the horse to keep the same hours of turnout but less intake of grass?

This^^

Perfectly reasonable of the yard owner. I would probably charge an extra £1 a day if I did DIY and someone was soaking that much hay and then rinsing it.

 

[maree t]

I didnt think that steaming took the sugar out of hay like soaking ?

 

[fuze]

Thanks for the replies! For the record, it's a large livery yard, not a private yard. I also agreed to pay any extra costs when she mentioned it being metered, but insisted that I do need to soak. Just gonna pick out main points here:

Is there any way of having a water butt ie free water?

Possibly, I'm not sure, worth asking!

I soak hay daily and use the water in the buckets from my stable.

I can do, he doesn't tend to drink an awful lot of a night though (as he has soaked hay), so I don't fill large buckets for his stable. Half a trug is more than enough, so I'd have to use tap aswell.

I also think £130 per month should cover all your water!

I assumed it would aswell, it wasn't said any different in contracts / when we moved on.

I thought water for agricultural use was classed differently and not like regular meters? (I'm not an expert but I'm sure there is different classifications and it can't be that expensive)

I have no idea, going to check it out on Google though!

Would it be beneficial or just cause more conflict to have an analysis done of the hay to show its nutritional value?...
FWIW your cob is probably better off out on hardly any grass than in on good hay!

I had considered the analysis, but I have a feeling it won't change things regardless of the results. I've requested restricted grazing for spring / summer in the past, YO refused. I was told to stable and muzzle...

Soaking does help.... But if your YO won't let you soak from now on then you may need to move? Her rules whether you think it is reasonable or not. Tbh muzzling would probably help more than soaking...

I know they're her rules and that's fair enough, just curious as to whether other people think it's a reasonable request of a livery yard He will be muzzled in due course, but the fields they're in are still relatively bare at the minute. The soaked hay will help regardless when he comes in, even when muzzled, IMO.

but to basically be told you don't know how to manage your horses weight and that everything you are doing is wrong.....I would be gone!

It shocked me a little at the time, in all honesty. I told her I'd be happy to put extra in if required, the rest seemed a little unnecessary...

Have you been soaking hay for 7 months without issue? or is it new to soak hay? Strange if it's suddenly become an issue - could something else be bothering YO?

Could you swap some hay for straw to cut calories?

Soaking has only been for the past couple of months. I'm aware YO isn't a fan of soaking hay, so we tried to get by on dry... despite cutting out hard feed, upping exercise, etc, it was a bit of a losing battle. I gave in and started soaking, it helped, I've continued since then. Others have been soaking all winter, some for sugars, others for dust.

OP have you considered a grazing muzzle to allow the horse to keep the same hours of turnout but less intake of grass?

See above, muzzle is at the ready He'll still have to come in though (muzzles can't stay on 24/7?) and the plan was to soak hay for when he came in...

Has everyone on the yard been asked to moderate their use of water?

I'm aware one other livery (who has a laminitic, and little choice) has been told the same. From what I can gather, no one else has.

Could you put the filled haynet in a large trug and take it home to soak? fiddly, but doable if you drive there.

It would be difficult due to other factors. As a last resort maybe, but for £32.50 a week you'd hope life would be a little easier than that

We don't soak but steam hay by using old Dengie bags and putting haynet in then pouring in a kettle of boiling water !

Does this get rid of sugars, out of interest?

As has already been suggested, I would ask if I could provide oat straw and mix it with the hay 50/50.

We're not allowed to bring our own forage onto the yard. We're not allowed to bed on straw either... there's no straw anywhere.

Just a thought, we had this on a previous yard. I wonder if it is on 'normal' water rates and not business water rates. Any large increase in usage may warrant a query by the water company

It's a large yard, so I'd assume it would be business. Could be wrong, however.

 

[Sprig]

Muzzles can stay on 24/7. My cob lives out and he had his on from when I got him in Sept to Dec when I decided the grass was OK. Had no issues. I took it off twice a day to clear out any clogged bits and make sure it was not rubbing. I did get a few tiny rubs to start with which I vaselined twice a day and after a very short period of time had no rubs and no vaselineing required.

 

[amandaco2]

If ur using old water from the stable buckets I can't see the problem???also its best to have a fatty out on poorish grazing than sitting using no calories in a stable.....

 

[JenJ]

I didnt think that steaming took the sugar out of hay like soaking ?

I agree. I think steaming will reduce the dust spores, but won't affect the sugar content.

 

[skint1]

ah yes, sorry I didn't read carefully enough, we were doing it for a mare with a bad cough, not to reduce sugar..apologies for that!

 

[Natch]

I'm another who doesn't think that steaming reduces sugar content, in fact it's good for maintaining the nutritional content of hay for a horse who you struggle to keep weight on!

I wonder if you got organised and had the room at home you could take 2 nets home at night, soak them, have two draining overnight so it's easier to transport to yard next day.


... It sounds like s lot of faff I admit
What about investing in the small holed nets that are around? You could reduce the amount of forage he eats, if it took him longer to eat it

 

[JenJ]

I can do, he doesn't tend to drink an awful lot of a night though (as he has soaked hay), so I don't fill large buckets for his stable. Half a trug is more than enough, so I'd have to use tap aswell.d assume it

But your YO doesn't need to know that your horse doesn't drink much. It's fair usage to allow a fresh decent size bucket/trug for overnight, so using this leftover (which would be quite a bit, if he doesn't drink much) to soak would then 'solve' the problem?

 

[vieshot]

Muzzles can stay on 24/7. My cob lives out and he had his on from when I got him in Sept to Dec when I decided the grass was OK. Had no issues. I took it off twice a day to clear out any clogged bits and make sure it was not rubbing. I did get a few tiny rubs to start with which I vaselined twice a day and after a very short period of time had no rubs and no vaselineing required.

Really?! I'm shocked that people muzzle 24/7......

 

[Twinkley Lights]

I agree. I think steaming will reduce the dust spores, but won't affect the sugar content.

This ^^