Extremely nappy, stubborn youngster!

[Hormonal Filly]

Extremely nappy, stubborn youngster

Hi all!
I love this forum as most of you guys are so knowledgeable and helpful, unlike Facebook and a lot of other forums. Its going to be another long one but you've helped out so much before with my posts, I apologise but need to explain so you know the situation.

I have a gelding I bought as a 'baby', hes a Welsh, having not done anything. He was rather full of himself so thought he'd be perfect as a forward alrounder in the future. Turned him away, hes had a lovely upbringing. Bought him on really slowly, started leading him out while riding. Visited a few shows in hand just for experience, trips in the trailer. Long lining etc.
Backed him at 4 and done it all myself, hacking out alone and in company. Never done much flat work on a surface as he was extremely lazy, so schooled or 'played' in a field every month or so but apart from that hacked around all different places. Hes nappy, but always has been although I know him very well, know he ticks and he'll do more for me than anyone else.

Attended his first funride this year (5yr old now, owned a few years) he was amazing. Infact, hes only ever popped a tiny log and he pulled me into 1m fences without a fuss and me holding on - so many compliments on what a excellent lad he was. He loved it.

I have started introducing flat work again this year, 15 mins once a week, if that! Now hes 5 I really want to do some more dressage after he came second in January with 69% in his first test in a W/T test! (He was kept in alot of winter on haylage so full of it then plus there was lots of horses there, which is why we done quite well!)
Well, clearly a arena, no matter where we are, what we are doing, is boring if hes on his own! If we share with another in a arena, hes full of himself, which is what drives me mad.
He just is the laziest, unforward going horse. Hes ridden 3/4 times a week ALWAYS with a day off inbetween as hes immature at times and i'm aware of this. Hes not over weight and looks a spit of health.

My instructor has got me to ask nicely for a trot say, a light nudge with my leg, then a pony club kick, no difference - drop the reins and smack him with a schooling whip so he learns he has to go forwards. It works but hes started to get wise to that at times. Even tried spurs (used correctly) as recommended by a professional and made no difference either. I have recently moved yards and now on a much thinner surface which is lovely, so its much easier for him, but hes no difference.

Your all going say, school in a field and of which we do, and I have to hold him back or school while hacking, we do that too. But most of the local tests are on a surface.. which would be embarrassing currently. He gets hot VERY easily, I am considering clipping him in summer, just because he doesn't cope with heat well. Always ride late evening or early morning, will give him ultra hot days off.

I have had saddle checked, work up at the vets inc tests and physio (who actually said he was extremely supple!) Hes fed all year but more in winter. Calm and condition, Alfa A, linseed powder and salt. I do often think about changing the calm and condition for something more like competition cubes etc but don't want be feeding him to make him more forward going.

Has anyone got any advice? I don't mind anyone who wants to be straight to the point as it helps but nothing to hurtful as already feel like advertising him. I am 10000% certain hes napping the entire time and feels like he is, as he does KNOW what i want and chooses not to do it, now hes 5 I really feel like I need to do something before he gets worse and worse. I know he may mature but I just can't see him suddenly being more forward

 

[be positive]

Three questions, what is he like on the lunge? does he do polework or any jumping? have you tried cutting out all feed? that seems like a lot of grub for a native and I wonder if something he is eating is causing him discomfort.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Three questions, what is he like on the lunge? does he do polework or any jumping? have you tried cutting out all feed? that seems like a lot of grub for a native and I wonder if something he is eating is causing him discomfort.

On the lunge hes very lazy, the same as riding him in a arena really but he does listen and go to the voice, so he does know what walk, trot, canter is etc. Lunged on grass or a open space - totally different! We do pole work and started jumping this year (being worried about his joints left it until he was 5) he is more forward when poles and jumps are involved but still not off the leg, hes still very very green jumping specially show jumps. He isn't the best of doers really for a native, my instructor refers to him as a Warmblood even though hes a pure D. He rides like a warmblood too. He gets a small amount of feed during the summer, grass is ok but not tons of it so we bring in during the day on good hay. I will try cutting all feed, he did have a reaction last year to a pasture mix which caused a huge rash so that is worth doing - thank you! All worth trying!

 

[HufflyPuffly]

If all checks have been done, then it's likely he's five and just needs the basic's installing a little more firmly about reaction to the aids. Some horses are just more laid back than others.

My five year old for comparison is ridiculously sensitive and too forward (getting relaxed and calm is our struggle), but is nappy as well. The napping on their own is a confidence thing, they need to learn that they need to react in the way you want them to, to your aids no matter what. Her napping is getting less and less, as she knows it is a black and white area with me and she must go when I tell her. She is also the same in that she gets more excited in company (we don't need that extra forward mind :eek3, but is gaining confidence with more trips out.

My suggestion would be get a pro in to really get him understanding the aids and to make sure it isn't you blocking him in anyway. Or look to your own riding, are you completely consistent with small aid to big aid if no response and above all no nagging in-between? He will learn with consistent training it might just take him longer than something naturally forward. Also you've said he's a good weight but how fit is he, he might be more forward the fitter he is.

 

[SEL]

Could it also be that your horse finds the school boring? You do have a welshie and they are inclined to express their opinions and right now I suspect that yours finds riding with his friends FUN, but doing 20m circles on his own in the school BORING.

Its 2 years since I've backed my mare and its probably only the past few months where we've actually been able to get some decent work in the school without hitting 'I can't and I won't' sulky patch.

I had to do a lot of freeschooling with mine as she couldn't be ridden for a while. She likes free schooling and I think that made her associate the school with a lot more fun stuff, especially when there were poles out. I also find that keeping the school work sessions short and then heading out to ride around the field or lanes stops them becoming sour.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

If all checks have been done, then it's likely he's five and just needs the basic's installing a little more firmly about reaction to the aids. Some horses are just more laid back than others.

My five year old for comparison is ridiculously sensitive and too forward (getting relaxed and calm is our struggle), but is nappy as well. The napping on their own is a confidence thing, they need to learn that they need to react in the way you want them to, to your aids no matter what. Her napping is getting less and less, as she knows it is a black and white area with me and she must go when I tell her. She is also the same in that she gets more excited in company (we don't need that extra forward mind :eek3, but is gaining confidence with more trips out.

My suggestion would be get a pro in to really get him understanding the aids and to make sure it isn't you blocking him in anyway. Or look to your own riding, are you completely consistent with small aid to big aid if no response and above all no nagging in-between? He will learn with consistent training it might just take him longer than something naturally forward. Also you've said he's a good weight but how fit is he, he might be more forward the fitter he is.

Thank you! I have a baby gridwork lesson in a week a hour away in the box which may help as its with other horses and is in a lovely indoor. I have also booked 2 lessons with 2 professional instructors, one man and one lady - both highly recommended and have some ideas so will see! Yes - i do have to be consistent - hes very switched on and realizes straight away if i don't bother to give a big aid. Hes fit enough to do regular long hacks, as in 10-12 miles with lots of galloping. We regularly box for a long hack with alot of fast work and hes done some 10 mile rides and was still galloping at the end. He isn't MEGA fit but fit enough i think but worth nothing, thank you!

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Could it also be that your horse finds the school boring? You do have a welshie and they are inclined to express their opinions and right now I suspect that yours finds riding with his friends FUN, but doing 20m circles on his own in the school BORING.

Its 2 years since I've backed my mare and its probably only the past few months where we've actually been able to get some decent work in the school without hitting 'I can't and I won't' sulky patch.

I had to do a lot of freeschooling with mine as she couldn't be ridden for a while. She likes free schooling and I think that made her associate the school with a lot more fun stuff, especially when there were poles out. I also find that keeping the school work sessions short and then heading out to ride around the field or lanes stops them becoming sour.

Yes - thats the nail on the head! He does express his opinion and he only wants to do things he finds fun! Thing is, will that last forever? I really don't want a horse I can't ride in the arena in winter (work long hours so sometimes the only option during the week, usually jump once school once mon - fri on my other) as hes so lazy so feel i need to nip it on the head before he gets worse. Thank you! I will add some poles tonight and see how we get on, i wonder if taking him in again but making it ultra short and sweet (say 5 mins each rein) and maybe add a cross pole he may enjoy more! - thank you!

 

[honetpot]

To me he sounds like a typical pony. Mine has just come back from basic backing, hacking out alone and in company but has hit the wall in the school and started planting and then leaping when you get after him. The women backing him was really surprised as he had been so cooperative up till then. He is a sports pony type Connemara, placid but just like Highlands obviously has a low boredom, why should I do this again threshold. So he's home for a month off, he has grown whilst away at five, when it gets a bit cooler we will start again. The heat really affects them and most ponies are grumpy in hot weather.
Having had many ponies my advice is to back off, and avoid it. You can do all your schooling out hacking, leg yield, turn on forehand, spotting for halt, learn weight aids and mix it up and have fun. Sneak up a test on grass when it rains. You just have to fool them and try and be smarter than them.

 

[honetpot]

Thank you! I have a baby gridwork lesson in a week a hour away in the box which may help as its with other horses and is in a lovely indoor. I have also booked 2 lessons with 2 professional instructors, one man and one lady - both highly recommended and have some ideas so will see! Yes - i do have to be consistent - hes very switched on and realizes straight away if i don't bother to give a big aid. Hes fit enough to do regular long hacks, as in 10-12 miles with lots of galloping. We regularly box for a long hack with alot of fast work and hes done some 10 mile rides and was still galloping at the end. He isn't MEGA fit but fit enough i think but worth nothing, thank you!

I have just read this and that sounds like an awful lot of work. I have mis read is he four coming five? With galloping I would be worried about his legs.

 

[be positive]

I have just read this and that sounds like an awful lot of work. I have mis read is he four coming five? With galloping I would be worried about his legs.

Thank you! I have a baby gridwork lesson in a week a hour away in the box which may help as its with other horses and is in a lovely indoor. I have also booked 2 lessons with 2 professional instructors, one man and one lady - both highly recommended and have some ideas so will see! Yes - i do have to be consistent - hes very switched on and realizes straight away if i don't bother to give a big aid. Hes fit enough to do regular long hacks, as in 10-12 miles with lots of galloping. We regularly box for a long hack with alot of fast work and hes done some 10 mile rides and was still galloping at the end. He isn't MEGA fit but fit enough i think but worth nothing, thank you!

I think that sounds like a lot of work, I would not be properly galloping a 5 year old at all let alone regularly, having read this and given it some more thought i would wonder if he is lacking confidence to go forward, as someone else has suggested, does not understand what you are asking in the school and that the fast hacks are giving him mixed signals in what is expected of him, I would see how the next few weeks go and consider giving him a break from hard work and see if some time off refreshes him.

 

[TheHairyOne]

Yes - i do have to be consistent - hes very switched on and realizes straight away if i don't bother to give a big aid.

Putting aside everything else this sums up your problem. He may perhaps be on the relaxed side of life, but you are schooling him to need a big aid. You should always give a small aid, then follow with a bigger one to teach the desired response, which is moving from a small aid. Hopefully some instruction should help as it sounds like maybe there are some bits missing from his education.

My guy is natually laid back, and i also got caught in the trap of doing too much. The more laid back the horse is the less leg you should try and use to get forward!

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I have just read this and that sounds like an awful lot of work. I have mis read is he four coming five? With galloping I would be worried about his legs.

Hes technically 5 and a half. I don't see a problem with a fit horse attending funrides, alot I meet on them have rising 4 year olds - now that angers me. I say lots of galloping, he doesn't go flat out everywhere if that is the impression I gave. We have nice canters and a odd gallop with a group of friends - funrides we do abit more galloping but he'll have 4 days off after that.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I think that sounds like a lot of work, I would not be properly galloping a 5 year old at all let alone regularly, having read this and given it some more thought i would wonder if he is lacking confidence to go forward, as someone else has suggested, does not understand what you are asking in the school and that the fast hacks are giving him mixed signals in what is expected of him, I would see how the next few weeks go and consider giving him a break from hard work and see if some time off refreshes him.

I wouldn't say hes in 'hard work'. He gets ridden 3-4 days (at most) a week with a day off always in between and comes in for a nap during the day before so never on a belly of grass. He'll do 20 mins jumping (as in 2ft if that) one day for fun, day off, then a 40 minute hack around the lanes with a friend in walk/trot, day off, then 15 mins flat work, day off and then a nice couple of hours hack with a group of friends every other weekend with cantering and galloping. I would never gallop a 4yr old but don't see the problem of galloping 5 1/2 year old thats fit enough to do it, hes been bought on slowly and only ever done things once hes fit enough. I disagree more with jumping 4yr olds or even 3yr olds. I often see them as young as that jumping 1.20m and even jumping them that young at all is bad IMO. A lot of people on here BE their 5yr olds I see regularly. Far worse jumping than won't hunt him until hes turned 6 so don't think hes pushed.

However thank you, i am wondering if he is confused what i am asking now you've mentioned it, hopefully a new instructor may be able to help!