Failed on a Flexion Test....??

[bandit]

morning!!!

I wondered how many on here know of good horses failing a 5* vetting on a flexion test? And how much value you put on them???

My horse Ludo, who is for sale as a hack / hunter with a past life with me as a bit more, was subjected to a 5* vetting yesterday by a person very keen on him.

He was reasonably priced to sell, as he is unfit and quite hairy, compared to what a fit hunter at this time of year should be...

He's not been regularly ridden for a while, although he's been smartened up, clipped, and hacked out by my friend who is doing the sale... Anyway, lady came and put a deposit on him, and sadly didn't want him once he'd failed the vetting.

He's 12 yrs old, IDx, hunts with amazing manners, and hacks both alone and in company. He failed on a flexion test on his right hind... I wasn't there so didn't see it, but if he passed on the other 3 I suspect it can't have been that bad, he passed on all the other bits....

I now have to readvertise him and it's just getting silly....

So - back to initial reason for posting - what do people think of flexion tests (I'd fail them personally), how much value should be put on them, and what do they really mean for a horse who's for sale as a hack / hunter - not the next Badminton prospect????

Bxx

 

[Weezy]

I really dislike flexion tests - it is SO easy for the vet to get them wrong (not the lame steps, the way they hold the leg)

Really feel for you

 

[bandit]

yeah - i'm gutted... poor horse, he didn't deserve that - thankfully there was a waiting list so still have interest in him... however not sure it was really necessary on that type of sale.

 

[Rambo]

I know of horses that have failed them, then when re-done after x-rays etc a few weeks later, have passed with flying colours. Vets will usually only use them as an indicator of further investigations being required, unless they are obviously hobbling.

How would you feel if you had the circulation cut off from one of your limbs for 30 seconds or so and were then asked to perform on it

 

[BBs]

Oh bloody hell! poor ludo

Well, okay, to put it into context. If i was looking at a potential eventer/young performance horse and it failed the ftest then I would probably have second thoughts.

However, knowing ludos age, and what hes gonna be used for, this wouldnt really worry me.

 

[siennamum]

The jury's out for me tbh. I bought a pony which failed a flexion test for a fair bit of money a couple of years ago, as I felt it was just a trivial thing and that he was actually sound.
As a seller I would probably want to investigate why the horse had failed and see whether its anything affecting long term soundness. As a buyer I would generally walk away I'm afraid, as I've done this year on a different pony. There are a great many nice animals around, I would not knowingly buy potential soundness issues.

 

[AmyMay]

Fexion tests are always soooo controversial. What a pain the in neck. Has the person said that they definately don't want him?? Did you also speak to the vet who did the test to see what he thought??

He sounds like a really great horse.

 

[nicnag]

I don't like them, there is too much room for error there. I had a mare vetted last year and she failed on the flexion test, her owner then got her vetted again and he passed her but by then there was that tiny seed of doubt and I walked away... Just so difficult to really be sure.

 

[Baileysno1]

When I bought my vetran I had a 5 Stage vetting and he failed on the flexion test, similar to yours he'd been out of work etc etc. Anyway I was totally gutted but didn't want to buy a horse that wasn't sound, however I did a bit of research and discovered the flexion test is generally a bit ropey, and went ahead and made an offer (a third of his asking price) best decision I ever made after a couple of months fittening work we did all riding club stuff including hunter trials he excelled at dressage and really taught me loads it was a risk well worth taking. I think now if I had a horse vetted and it failed on the flexion test depending on what job I was getting it for I definately consider buying it anyway.

 

[Agent XXX999]

I agree it depends on the horse …you would be hard pushed to find a Hunter, or indeed anything who has had a competitive/active career that did pass a 5* I recon…and realistically, I don’t think that vetting are all they are cracked up to be and wouldn’t have one (unless I was buying something that you need a mortgage for)

I always think of it as whether I would pass or not – e.g. if I had a leg splint I would prob fail but I am still OK to do normal every day stuff, but might get problems if I wanted to run the marathon. Or if I had COPD I would be OK for plodding round the woods with my mum, but might have a few problems if I was training for the 100 meters!

Horses for courses really!

 

[bandit]

I know - poor Ludo indeed...

I know I had my new event mare vetted and that was because of the job I wanted her to do.

Based on all the other desireables needed in a horse, Ludo ticks all the boxes, and just this seems really sad.

He is obviously sound in normal situation if it was only a flexion failure as a 5* is fairly thorough...

Bx

 

[Tempi]

aw hun, more bad luck for you, im so sorry to hear it........i know bloss would definately fail a flexion test, but shes never had a day lame in her life.........

 

[druid]

It depends on what I wanted the horse for...though S failed a flexion and then passed 5 minutes later, same vet just the horse being an arse!

 

[BBs]

Exactly, hes being purchased as a hunter/hack. He isnt 7 years old, he has done a fair bit in his life and is sound.

Like FF said above, its horses for courses! if they were buying ludo (who is being sold as a Hack/Hunter) as a performance horse then okay they have reason to have second thought. However, he isnt mega bucks, you have been realistic in the price and what hes capable of doing.

GAHH i feel for you babe and ludo.

Vx

 

[siennamum]

I think I also have a different perspective because everything I buy has to be resold when outgrown at the moment.
If I were buying for myself, then I might have a different view.

 

[BBs]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I also have a different perspective because everything I buy has to be resold when outgrown at the moment.
If I were buying for myself, then I might have a different view.

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally understand your view M

 

[bandit]

yeah - right rare b*gger.....

He's always been fine, and I've not lied about him, explained he's not a competition horse anymore, although hacks and hunts and will do sp rides and pairs ht..... Seems a shame to consider selling him only as a companion because i'm sure if he were fitter, he'd not have failed - lack of mucsle and top line probably counts for alot...

Bx

 

[the watcher]

it wouldn't worry me personally as long as the horse has a normal way of going at all other times, but if this vet report is to be disclosed to the insurers they will immediately make exclusions for that leg, then even the most minor problem won't be covered...so I can see why a purchaser might wobble.

 

[amage]

to be honest i have mixed feelings about them. technically they are allowed 3 lame steps when the foot is initially dropped. however if you have an older stiffer horse they react alot more to the flexion so will often trot lame for more than 3 steps. the average older horse if worked or given a good walk out or even just stood with magnetic rug will actually trot sound on the flexion...therefore if someone wanted to they could actually fake the flexion results by working them before vet comes. also there are vets i know who would say well technically its a fail...but then explain what i have said above! i think in youngsters they have a place but they should be taken with a pinch of salt in an older horse!!

 

[Reashi]

Reashi was advertised at 12k, with points in BE and BD, and money in BSJA, placed intermediate BE, won elementary BD (since qualified for regionals) etc. However, he would not pass the vet because of failing a flexion test. Eventually he went for 5k, which was an absolute bargain for a horse of his calibre. I think its great for a buyer to pick up a bargain, but it also carries a certain amount of risk that some people aren't willing to take.

 

[GTs]

It depends how lame the horse was, and who I was buying the horse from - if it was someone in my circle I would have no problems with a little lameness after a flexion if the history was good.

 

[teapot]

I know of 3 horses atleast who all failed a flexion test but have gone on to make good horses

Wonder how many of us would be sound after being made to hold your leg up like that?

 

[burtie]

Personally as part of a buying vetting I think they are a waste of time as to be any good you surely you would need to do each joint and any horse would be hoping after having each joint done?
However as I 've never seen it done for vetting as I 've never had a horse vetted so can't comment on exactly what happens but would be interested to hear?

If I'm looking at a horse for me I go on regularity of pace, on a straight, on a circle and through transitions and how it tracks up.

I like to watch a horse form straight out the box to fully warmed up.