Failed vetting front leg flexion (bad shoeing?)

[Merryweather]

So a young mare 7yo that we had vetted today with a view to buy failed the flexion test on a front leg.
The vet has offered to return Free of charge next week after she’s had her feet done by a different farrier. He says current shoes are too tightly on and are overdue.
Seller admits it’s been 8-9 weeks due to farrier sickness but vet says it would also have been a bad job originally.
So the question. Has anyone any experience of bad shoes causing a failed flexion test?
Also do you put a lot of value in a flexion test, she will be a jumping and dressage amateur competition horse as well as a pet. All Opinions welcomed

 

[doodle]

At 7yo yes I would value it. At 17 yo less so. If vet is happy to come back next week for free then I would do that. If horse fails again I would walk away.

 

[SusieT]

If she was lame all round I might accept bad shoeing - flexion specifically flexes the joints so if sound before flexion and lame after flexion then more likely not shoeing related and I wouldn't take the chance unless price reflects and you can afford to keep a lame pet.

 

[Merryweather]

If she was lame all round I might accept bad shoeing - flexion specifically flexes the joints so if sound before flexion and lame after flexion then more likely not shoeing related and I wouldn't take the chance unless price reflects and you can afford to keep a lame pet.

She’s only shod on the front and it’s just her front right that’s failed flexion test. All other tests lunging and tight circle etc she’s passed before and after flexion test.
Trying to gauge if a bad shod foot could cause a failed flexion test.
She’s not been lame in the two years on this yard and she’s on working livery, working 3-4 days a week 1-2 lessons on those days including a reasonable amount of jumping. We’ve been trying her for the last week so having jump lessons on her and hacked her so she’s worked more than usual this week.
Lots of my horsey friendsare saying walk away , but also saying most horses fail the flexion test, Or that’s why I never vet check mine the tests unreliable as a check for future problems.
Leaving me a bit confused.
The yards in no rush to sell so there’s no movement on price we approached them for the sale not the other way around. They are happy to keep her having only entertained our interest because they thought we’d be the right sort of home for her. The mare is not advertised for sale anywhere it was a walk in.

 

[splashgirl45]

lunging on the hard in a tight circle would show up foot lameness so i would say the feet are not the problem. some vets hold the leg up too high and for too long and some horses will show a couple of lame strides when they first trot but are then ok. if you want to jump etc i would be very careful, if just hacking she may be ok. as an example my mare wasnt quite sound on lunge circle on the hard but was fine on all flexion tests even though her shoeing was overdue and done badly. i stopped the vetting and did buy her for less money, she was much better once my farrier had done her feet but had foot problems in later life even though i only hacked and did dressage ..

 

[dixie]

If the vet is willing to go back free of charge then you have nothing to lose surely. He is obviously confident it’s shoeing problem and seeing he was there and is the professional I would take his advice.

 

[Goldenstar]

Take the vet up on his offer .
my only worry is if it’s mentioned on the vets cert even if the horses has ‘passed ‘will it affect your insurance position .

 

[Merryweather]

Take the vet up on his offer .
my only worry is if it’s mentioned on the vets cert even if the horses has ‘passed ‘will it affect your insurance position .

That’s one of my concerns and I’m not sure yet is the honest answer.

 

[ycbm]

I dont understand why a flexion would fail due to a shoe when the shoe isn't flexed and the horse was sound on the hard circle.

I would be very concerned. A horse I sold to a dealer was subsequently vetted by a friend of mine (the vet, not the buyer). She failed in exactly the same way, and my vet friend said that his best guess without x rays would be a floating bone chip in the joint.

I wouldn't buy this horse without an xray even if it passes the flexion next time.

.

 

[Melody Grey]

I can't see it being shoe related to be honest, but if being so overdue and possibly badly done tonstart with has created an imbalance, I guess it's a possibility? Re-vet and see what that reveals. Would the vendor entertain the horse being shod by your farrier?
If it passes I think I'd want x-rays on the front to satisfy myself and try to prevent insurance exclusions. It would be good for the horse to maintain the current level of work between now and re-vet. You don't want a few quiet days off waiting for the farrier to hide whatever might be going on.

 

[Merryweather]

Horse being reshod today by farrier recommended by the vet. We are going to leave it over a week to give settle time and retest. Vet doing retest free of charge. Then it’s final decision time.

 

[Orangehorse]

As other said, the small circles should show up foot problems, the flexion test is for joints. A couple of lame steps is regarded as not significant, but any more or marked lameness, particularly with a young horse, would raise alarm bells. Discuss with your vet.

 

[ycbm]

Horse being reshod today by farrier recommended by the vet. We are going to leave it over a week to give settle time and retest. Vet doing retest free of charge. Then it’s final decision time.

Please don't make a final decision without x rays, even if the horse is sound on retest. The shoe explanation makes no sense, there are many conditions that are intermittent in the pain they cause, and the seller has had time to stuff the horse full of devil's claw, MSM and/or other anti inflammatories that won't show up on an ordinary blood test, or even to take a chance on bute. And make sure a blood sample is taken just in case you need to test it.

.

 

[Melody Grey]

Please don't make a final decision without x rays, even if the horse is sound on retest. The shoe explanation makes no sense, there are many conditions that are intermittent in the pain they cause, and the seller has had time to stuff the horse full of devil's claw, MSM and/or other anti inflammatories that won't show up on an ordinary blood test or even take a chance on bute. And make sure a blood sample is taken just in case you need to test it.

.

Please don't make a final decision without x rays, even if the horse is sound on retest. The shoe explanation makes no sense, there are many conditions that are intermittent in the pain they cause, and the seller has had time to stuff the horse full of devil's claw, MSM and/or other anti inflammatories that won't show up on an ordinary blood test or even take a chance on bute. And make sure a blood sample is taken just in case you need to test it.

.

agreed! Also a week off/ reduced work could make an intermittent lameness more elusive. The cost of front x-rays won’t be horrendous in the grand scheme of things and although I wouldn’t routinely x-ray a purchase, I’d feel I had just cause in this case.

 

[Merryweather]

So update.
Firstly Thankyou everyone for your replies.
You def made us take the results seriously.
So
With the new shoes and 13 days she passed with flying colours.
The vet checked both before and after lunging on tight circles
He also compared the two front legs again.
He did the test 3 times in total and she didn’t falter at all
A lot of you said take the vets advice. Our vet said he no longer has any concerns about her front legs. He is 100% happy.
Also some of you mentioned lack of work so the stable manager has provided videos and a photo of her work schedule from the last 13 days so we are confident her workload hasn’t changed.

The vet has given us a vetting document that states that she failed but that shoes were considered to be unacceptable and a retest was agreed and then states her passing at retest with new shoes and that he is happy that the shoes caused the initial fail.
We are now taking a few days to process everything and then we will make a decision.
Feel free to comment further, I know many of you couldn’t see the shoes changing anything and as such we had prepared for a fail but they did make a huge difference on this horse.

 

[ycbm]

That sounds promising but personally I would still x ray. Did your vet take blood? If not, be sure he does before you complete the deal.



.

 

[Merryweather]

Re. Drugging in anyway to aid result, please note the yard aren’t actively trying to sell the horse we approached them. They have a a young rider who wants to loan the horse to compete on if our sales falls through. They were concerned for the horse at the fail not about the sale and were upset they hadn’t spotted the shoes as they trusted their farrier having used him for years. We are in the lucky position to trust our seller.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I’d echo the suggestions for bloods and front foot x rays before completing the purchase, even if you think you can trust the vendor.

 

[Dyllymoo]

I’d echo the suggestions for bloods and front foot x rays before completing the purchase, even if you think you can trust the vendor.

As above.

I would also be weary that any insurance companies may well exclude her feet/ legs. My mare struggled slightly with canter transitions intermittently during vetting, vet put a note on vetting sheet to say "Schooling issue as green", her whole back end wasn't covered by insurance. Turns out they were right to do it as she had SI and suspensory issues.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I would only proceed with bloods being taken and I am somewhat surprised your vet didn't suggest this?

 

[Melody Grey]

I would x ray the fronts- might be worth asking your potential insurer whether clean x-rays would prevent an exclusion being applied due to the initial vetting result. Might seem like overkill but it could really save your bacon if you do need to claim in the future if you can completely dismiss any underlying problems?

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Another adding to the echo of taking bloods and getting xrays done regardless of how much you trust the seller. I’d also have a chat with your insurers and find out what exclusions may apply based on the initial fail.

 

[ycbm]

Re. Drugging in anyway to aid result, please note the yard aren’t actively trying to sell the horse we approached them. They have a a young rider who wants to loan the horse to compete on if our sales falls through. They were concerned for the horse at the fail not about the sale and were upset they hadn’t spotted the shoes as they trusted their farrier having used him for years. We are in the lucky position to trust our seller.

The vendor doesn't have xray eyes and can be as honest as the day is long but the horse still has a question mark over it. I have seen horses that pass flexion with no question then fail on x ray with things that were pretty much certain to cause future issues.

I'm sorry we're being so negative, but a few of us on here have been around the block a few times with things like this, and our concern is for you, that we don't see you posting about a lame horse in a few months time.

.