failing on flexion tests

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ajn1610

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The recent experience of a friend of mine got me thinking.

We all know that horses who a perfectly sound for work can flex up lame. How many posts on here have we seen on here of horses failing vets because of this? I'm coming round to thinking that I can make a fair judgement myself of whether or not a horse is fit for the job I want it to do and unless you are spending a lot of money, say £10,000+ and having a full 5* with bloods, xray etc. are vettings really worth bothering with?

I know you need them for insurance but it seem like the insurance companies just use them as an excuse for exclusions.

The only horse I've ever had vetted, passed with flying colours but is the one most often out of work on the yard(kissing spines, tendon injuries). All the others have missed work on a handfull of days combined.

I'm sure there are incidences where vettings have flagged up hidden issues but I'm sure they must be massively out numbered by great horses who've missed out on good homes based on a few short strides after being bent into dodgy positions.

So my question is, what do you guys think? Are vettings worth doing? Who stipulates what they should include and is there a better way to test soundness than a flexion test? Be interested to hear any Vet's points of view. Bit bored and just wanting others opinions please.
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What a timely post, a subject close to my heart at the moment.

My first horse I had vetted passed a 5 stage with flying colours, he broke down within 6 months of owning him and ended up LOU. Second horse passed vetting including flexions, he was diagnosed with a bone spavin some 18 months later although despite having a spavin and some OCD he flexed sound.

I wish there was any easy answer to this question but I don't think there is!
 
I had never had a horse vetted before i bought Waldo, and even then i just had ears & eyes & heart done. I have heard of so many horses breaking after a full 5*, i took the chance & didnt get one done.
 
we always get them 5*vetted (except Monty, but we bought him off someone we know, and he had had him for years)

it just gives me peace of mind. but if a problem did pop up, i wouldnt automatically dismiss the horse....i would think about the problem, what i want to do with the horse, long term effects and whether it would actually cause any problems in their work.

but i do think vetting is worth doing if you plan to have them in hard work/regularly competing...but maybe if its just a happy hack and your short on cash - then it wouldnt hurt to miss out on the vetting xx
 
He is insured for less than his value, but enoght for me to buy another youngster if needed. There is a max they will insure for without a full vetting.
 
I have only ever had one vetted - a five star - and it had shivers which was missed at the vetting! WIll not have a vetting again ...
 
I didnt have my boy vetted. He was clearly stiff having advanced evented and i could tell just by looking at him he would fail a flexion. I havent had a days trouble with him (touch wood!!).

My personal feeling with flexions is that any vet can make any horse fail them if they try hard enough. I've seen a horse nearly fall over becasue the vet was being really hard with the flexions.
 
I like to have heart and eyes checked. If I was having one vetted I think I would make my vet go and do it - I sold one to friends who wanted it vetting even though they knew it had an old tendon injury - proper bowed tendon, just to put their mind at rest for the rest of him, they used their own vet who missed his tendon and passed him with flying colors!!!!!
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Despite knowing my horse before I bought him I still had a 2 stage vetting, he passed overall but had one positive flexion on a foreleg (I was expecting him to fail behind!). My vet said that there had been some studies done in America on positive flexions in forelegs and soundness issues in that limb in later life - and there was little/no correllation. We'll wait and see if that will be true for us, I hope so!
 
That's interesting Grumbledor so if there is no correlation between flexion passes and later issues and if as hannahbanana said it doesn't even show an existing injury what is the point in doing them???!
 
The last two horses I have bought have been 3yo's and have passed their 5stage vettings 100%, but then a 3yo who didn't pass would have to be viewed very suspiciously indeed.

An equine vet has told me that he very rarely passes any horse over 5, as they always have some little niggle or issue. I find this a very freaky thought.

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I had one fail a vetting due to having something really obscure wrong with its teeth - it was recently imported so before the vetting I just thought it was in poor condition due to the journey from the continent. I think the owner ended up having it PTS as it couldn't eat properly and would never have been able to digest its food as a result. I was very lucky as not all vets would have spotted it and I could have bought a horse with its days numbered.

Saying that.... I think there are arguments against having vettings, the only thing I really would want to have checked out by the vet is the eyes and heart as I have a couple of very knowledgeable friends whom I think I could rely on to spot anything else wrong with a horse.
 
I know alot of horses that have passed vettings at a variety of ages. My coloured passed the flexions with flying colours as a 7yr old, and my mare didn't even take a dodgy step in her vetting. I would be concerned if a horse didn't pass, and would want further investigations
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There are plenty out there that are sound and will pass in my experience.
 
My vet doesn't pass or fail horses! He merely advises on suitability.

However, would always have a horse vetted, it's not that much of an expense on top of the cost of purchase at the end of the day, use a vet you trust, I'll only use my own. At the end of the day what if a heart murmur was missed or similar.

Realise this doesn't answer the question.

My vet was vetting horse belonging to a friend of mine a year ago and she was lame on her near hind after flexions. He advised to have X-Rays which they did and it showed the start of a bone spavin in the hock. They bought anyway following advice (horse was 13), horse was kept at same yard and new owner has now become a friend. No problems since, but have had her on Superflex since as a preventative.
 
I am not the greatest believer in vettings and there outcomes however one saved me from wasting an awful lot of money .we looked at a very well bred 4 yo mare for eventing and although it looked fine and it moved OK .However to be quite honest it was about 5k under priced so we had vetted and only failed right at the end as it was slightly lame when it came out after 30min rest we were told alsorts of excuses by the owners.So the vetting was well worth it from our point of view .The last we heard was that it had been sold as a broodmare for £1200.
 
Pilfer failed his vetting on left fore lameness on a circle (he was about 3/10 lame).

i didn't buy him then but couldn't find anything to match up to him in the next 3 months so went back and bought Pilfer.

he has done 6 full seasons of eventing since then, including 16 events this season!!!

he had some shoulder stiffness that my McTimoney man sorted and he gets checked minimum twice a year.

i paid £4k for him and got him insured for £5k including LOU no problems at all.

since i bought Pilfer i have never vetted any horse i have bought (even ones bought to sell on).
 
Last year we were very keen to buy a 7 year old eventer from a good friend - who had bred the horse herself.

As it was expensive (for us anyway!) and was potentially a 2/3* horse, we had the works - 5* vetting with full x-rays.

Horse failed on several counts - mostly 'potential' problems showing up on x-rays, but also mildly on 2 of the flexion tests, and because one eye had clearly visible small cataracts.

We decided not to proceed, and the horse was sent South to be sold - where it passed a 5* vetting from a top vet (who apparently said nothing about the eye) and was sold for even more money!! Don't think they did x-rays on that occasion.

Am watching to see how far it goes..........! So far was eventing happily at a lower level this season, but who knows ............did we do the right thing?
Personally I think we did - but it is frustrating when so many fail!

However, recently another top vet told me that he only recommends getting x-rays done on youngsters (up to the age of 4) as after that most competition horses will show some sort of potential problem even if they are perfectly sound!!! But if they show problems when they are young and relatively untried, then you DO need to worry!
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My vet doesn't pass or fail horses! He merely advises on suitability.


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Ditto this, had mine vetted 5 years ago as a 4yo and he wasn't really fully developed at that time (half Luso).

The vet passed his toe out legs on the proviso that he would be suitable to anything given a couple of years to mature. Sure enough after an easy first two years with him (touch wood) he competes up to PN and Disc (hopefully more SJ if I pull my finger out) and has never had a problem.
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I have never had a horse vetted.
My mare was sent to me to sell on for a client, she failed the vetting as she had a newly formed splint. I bought her at a reduced price and the only problem she has had is when a horse jumped on her so not her fault at all.

I recently sold a 3 yo who had a 5 stage with his new owners. The vet passed him but wouldnt write up the report as he had a cut on his leg and the vet thought he could have chipped a bone. He was sound on all flexions. It was a complete farse as the vet wouldnt come back out until the cut had healed. In the end he eventually went to his new home a month later.

Unless I was spending huge amounts on a horse I wouldnt have a vetting.
 
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