Fair price for grazing + access to stable?

[sallybess]

I'm in the lucky position of having just purchased 5 acres of good quality grazing land in Worcestershire which is surrounded by an excellent network of bridleways. I have plans to get mains water on site, new gates, and to improve some of the fencing which will hopefully all be done this year.

Then next year I hope to put up a barn (permanent if possible, or mobile if planning is a problem) with hay/feed storage + tack room plus a mobile shelter with partition and gates so that it can be used as stabling should the need arise.

I will only have one horse (which I plan to keep out 24/7 if possible) but a friend has expressed an interest in keeping her horse there also and we could then share some of the routine daily horsecare duties which would be a great help to both of us.

So my question is what is a reasonable weekly charge for Grass livery with use of mobile type stable if needed as well as storage for tack / feed etc (I would like to include forage and bedding in the price) - mate's rate apply here so thinking £20 a week but not sure if that's too much / too little for this kind of set up.

 

[jnb]

£20/week sounds very reasonable. Tbh if supplying hay & bedding in winter, a minimum of £10/week more for those weeks where hay is supplied.

 

[splashgirl45]

that sounds very fair to me, i would have a chat with your friend and maybe put the ball in her court, ask her if she would be happy to pay £20 a week to help with the maintenance of the place, fencing, cutting grass ,provision of shelter etc..,that way you keep a nice friendly atmosphere if she says yes £20 sounds fine..... this is how i would approach it with any of my friends so they had some input and if it was more than they felt they could say right at the beginning. lucky you to be able to have your own grazing and make your own decisions....

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Ehmm, without wishing to rain on your parade, as a YO myself may I offer a word of caution as I think you need to have a good think about how you are going to do things.

"Mates rates" might be OK for now, but this "friend" might not be your friend in say a year's time - after which time you may come to resent the fact that she isn't paying her full wack yet is taking advantage of your generosity! It happens, friends might not always be friends, especially in close proximity like a yard where there is plenty of potential to disagree! You may enjoy her friendship now from a bit of a distance, which isn't the same as sharing a yard with her!

If you are essentially going to be "running a yard", then you will need to have to be brisk and business-like about it, as a YO the buck will stop with you and decisions you make might not always be regarded with popularity! - and so how you set things up now will be of paramount importance for the future. I really would counsel you to think very carefully about having a "friend" as a livery, if it doesn't work out you'll have lost not just a livery but a friend as well......

I'm a YO with a small concern, I live on-site and have room for just one DIY livery. May I respectfully suggest to you that you NEED, may MUST, set things up on a rather more official basis. You need to get a proper livery contract up and running and both of you should sign that you agree to all the terms on it. Don't forget the "euthanasia clause" where your livery needs to sign that in the event of an emergency where something happens to their horse and you can't contact the owner, you are authorised to call the vet, who will then have the authority to PTS for humane reasons without owner being notified or present. Awful I know, but has to be thought about.

BHS website is a good place to start, they have some pro-forma livery agreements on there, you can adapt it to suit your own needs, but I would strongly advise you to have something in place before you let anyone on the yard, albeit "friend" or anyone else!

The other thing is to charge a realistic amount for livery: you sound like you are going to be spending a lot of money on the place, and you need to be charging a commercially viable rent NOT "mates rates". Also, if you are having someone else's horse on the place, you need to think about insurance, primarily public liability, to protect yourself. You will also have running expenses such as repairs, fencing, stables, land maintenance such as harrowing & rolling, etc. etc. All of which costs!!

FWIW: I offer what sounds to be a similar set-up - DIY livery, use of own stable, own field, hay/fodder storage and own tack-room. My livery has two horses and pays me £100 per month. Hacking is mainly road-work here, but there is good access to local shows/events.

I hope you don't mind me saying all this!! And hope some of it, at least, might be helpful and/or give pause for thought.

 

[splashgirl45]

i assumeyou mean £100 per week as your livery has 2 horses and you have included hay as well. i think it also depends on how long the OP has been friends with the livery. i have friends of 50 years standing and am pretty sure we wouldnt fall out as we had a similar arrangement but i paid the lease on the field and she paid me...we kept our horses together for 30 years with never a cross word

 

[meleeka]

I think you need to consider how much of the care and maintenance she’s going to be putting in too, so it wouldn’t be fair to charge the going rate if she’s going to be as involved as you with the daily care of the horses, including yours.

Ask her what she thinks. You’ll have some idea of whether it’s worth it and she might surprise you by suggesting the £20 you were thinking of.

 

[sallybess]

Thanks for your thoughts -I'm new to this so want to get it right and it would be nice to see some return on investment / efforts even if only to subsidise my own horsey hobby!

I will definitely look at the BHS contract - I think sensible both parties have a clear notice period and that things like worst case scenarios are thought about in advance.

Just to be clear are you charging £100 per week or per month for the two liveries you have? (if per month it is actually less than what I am proposing).

Many thanks

 

[sallybess]

I think you need to consider how much of the care and maintenance she’s going to be putting in too, so it wouldn’t be fair to charge the going rate if she’s going to be as involved as you with the daily care of the horses, including yours.

Ask her what she thinks. You’ll have some idea of whether it’s worth it and she might surprise you by suggesting the £20 you were thinking of.

Thanks for this - I'm not going to be asking her to look after my horse for me - rather a mutually convenient arrangement whereby I can do her horse on some days and she can do mine on other days in return so she's not really obliged to work for me in that sense and as such I would view it as a separate to the rental charge. She won't be expected to maintain the place other than the usual expectations of a livery (keeping her own things tidy etc) - I will take care of the grass management, fencing and buildings etc.

 

[Leo Walker]

i assumeyou mean £100 per week as your livery has 2 horses and you have included hay as well. i think it also depends on how long the OP has been friends with the livery. i have friends of 50 years standing and am pretty sure we wouldnt fall out as we had a similar arrangement but i paid the lease on the field and she paid me...we kept our horses together for 30 years with never a cross word

That is massively overcharging! The going rate for a grass paddock that may or may not have access to stables but currently has no water or electric is roughly £10 a week round here. Theres livery yards only charging £20 for a proper yard, school, tea room, barn, stabling etc, etc, etc. It varies from area to area, but you could be over charging at £20 a week per horse. I would keep hay separate. Depending on the acreage you may need none or you may need substantial amounts

 

[TPO]

For up here £15-25pw is the going rate for grass livery depending on what other facilities are on offer. The top end of the scale is offering schools and good hacking too.

OP I'd work out your costs first: muck heap removal, seeding, fertilising, harrowing, rolling, water & electricity rates and fencing aren't long in adding. Plus you'll need to look into insurance, not only for your property, but what if something happened on your property and the friend sued (ie horse caught in fencing). As you'll be doing the set up and maintenance for your horse this might not be a concern to you BUT how will you feel/what would the arrangement be if friend's horse chewed your posts or broke your fencing etc.

Once you have worked out the costs of establishing and maintaining your place I'd work out how much extra it is having a livery (with insurance, wear and tear etc) and compare that to the costs of hiring a freelancer when you needed a hand and perhaps having your own companion pony.

I'm always wary of keeping two horses together too. What happens if one of you rides without the other; would the remaining horse be ok? What if friend's is ok being left but yours is not, or vice versa, as that situation isn't long in creating issues.

If you decide to go ahead with livery I'd keep bedding and hay separate. Depending on the storage you could either buy it in and livery buys as and when from you or each purchase your own hay/bedding. When people think it is "free" they often aren't as careful with waste etc.

I'm sure there are plenty of people on here that can advise on how costly it is maintaining your own place, there is always something!! Just last night fat cob managed to shear the bolt and mangle the holder for the downpipe and completely rip it out of the ground pipe by scratching his big butt on it! So make sure you factor in all the costs before committing. There are LOTS of advantages of having your own place but it can come at a price and often a good yard with part livery works out a lot cheaper with better facilities and help on hand etc.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Thanks for your thoughts -I'm new to this so want to get it right and it would be nice to see some return on investment / efforts even if only to subsidise my own horsey hobby!

I will definitely look at the BHS contract - I think sensible both parties have a clear notice period and that things like worst case scenarios are thought about in advance.

Just to be clear are you charging £100 per week or per month for the two liveries you have? (if per month it is actually less than what I am proposing).

Many thanks

Some excellent advice from "TPO" above, especially re. the issue of your horses being compatible and/or pairbonding problems! I had this a few years ago - our very first livery's horse and my old boy became totally inseparable, it was very embarrassing riding through the village on a creature constantly braying its head off like an elephant!!! Also created practical problems in the field as livery's horse got very possessive of my boy and there were times I had to take a lunging whip in with me........

Just clarifying: I just have the one (DIY) livery; the livery has two horses and pays me £100 per calendar month. I don't supply hay/straw or anything other than the field & looseboxes, plus hay & storage facilities, her own tackroom and space for the lorry. She's a superb livery, a real peach! I'm very lucky!

 

[splashgirl45]

That is massively overcharging! The going rate for a grass paddock that may or may not have access to stables but currently has no water or electric is roughly £10 a week round here. Theres livery yards only charging £20 for a proper yard, school, tea room, barn, stabling etc, etc, etc. It varies from area to area, but you could be over charging at £20 a week per horse. I would keep hay separate. Depending on the acreage you may need none or you may need substantial amounts

i was not suggesting this , i was just querying the yard owners post just before mine who said OP should charge a realistic rate and then she quoted £100 per month for a diy who had 2 horses which would have worked out as less than the op as the YO was also including hay...i agree that £20 would be a fair amount, it all depends which part of the country you are, i was paying £27.50 per week for grazing and stable and that was cheap for my area , the less availability of grazing the more it costs...

 

[splashgirl45]

Some excellent advice from "TPO" above, especially re. the issue of your horses being compatible and/or pairbonding problems! I had this a few years ago - our very first livery's horse and my old boy became totally inseparable, it was very embarrassing riding through the village on a creature constantly braying its head off like an elephant!!! Also created practical problems in the field as livery's horse got very possessive of my boy and there were times I had to take a lunging whip in with me........

Just clarifying: I just have the one (DIY) livery; the livery has two horses and pays me £100 per calendar month. I don't supply hay/straw or anything other than the field & looseboxes, plus hay & storage facilities, her own tackroom and space for the lorry. She's a superb livery, a real peach! I'm very lucky!

i am now confused, if you are charging £100 per month for 2 horses then it is cheaper than the OP was thinking and i thought you were implying that she wasnt charging enough.... sorry if i am misunderstanding but the rate round me is nearer £30 per week for just stable and grazing and a bit of storage space...

 

[Darbs]

I am in Worcestershire and for grazing plus a stable around £20 per week is about right.