skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
I saw this on Facebook and thought it might be of interest. She also has book on the same subject, available on Amazon.
FAO anyone who has a dog that bogs off hunting
- Thread starter skinnydipper
- Start date
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
As I know you are aware, a lead would solve the vast majority of these issues.
My lurcher Maz has a butter would not melt, can be surrounded by running sheep, in the sheds with ewes and lambs, will wash lambs, all of this one applies if we are there, if we are not then the game is one.
A good relationship is great and dogs need an outlet for their drive, we need a connection with them but people trust their dogs far too much.
My lurcher Maz has a butter would not melt, can be surrounded by running sheep, in the sheds with ewes and lambs, will wash lambs, all of this one applies if we are there, if we are not then the game is one.
A good relationship is great and dogs need an outlet for their drive, we need a connection with them but people trust their dogs far too much.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
I keep seeing this but dont know anyone that's actually done it. I suspect its a much more intense version of what we do now. He goes rabbiting, we do all sorts of engagement stuff to keep his busy little brain occupied and he has a harness and long line for anywhere I don't know or where I see deer paths or tracks. I'm about to start race training again. Its what I bought him for and what all that drive was supposed to be directed onto. He has other ideas, but I'm going to give it another go and see if he will engage now the track is reopen. I think actual coursing type racing might hold his interest more, so I just need to get him to the point where he's interested so I can give it a go.
Mine is stock broken and has zero interest in sheep but hell would freeze over before he went loose with someone else's sheep. I've said it before as well, my other one, zero prey drive really, couldn't catch a cold, would not be trusted with sheep ever. He was ok round mine if I kept a very close eye and close control of him, Left to his own devices he would definitely be a sheep botherer. I think there's probably something in it that Cooper has such a high prey drive but instinctively knows what he's bred to catch and is only interested in that, whereas Floyd no prey drive, sees a fluffy sheep moving and it lights up some primal instinct in him.
Mine is stock broken and has zero interest in sheep but hell would freeze over before he went loose with someone else's sheep. I've said it before as well, my other one, zero prey drive really, couldn't catch a cold, would not be trusted with sheep ever. He was ok round mine if I kept a very close eye and close control of him, Left to his own devices he would definitely be a sheep botherer. I think there's probably something in it that Cooper has such a high prey drive but instinctively knows what he's bred to catch and is only interested in that, whereas Floyd no prey drive, sees a fluffy sheep moving and it lights up some primal instinct in him.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
ok, just had a quick look, £700! Worth it to some people I guess. The first thing they suggest is the run and jump game. I'm waiting for the email with the details to see what it is, but I think this is probably directed at pet dogs that occasionally bog off rather than the coopers of this world. If I wanted to play games when he was out on a walk I'd be met with the whippet wall of stone where they just refuse to acknowledge or engage with you. Hes too clever to be fobbed off with my nonsense. I'm going to give it a go though because I like a challenge and will report back
Janique
Well-Known Member
I don't know about this but it's hard to imagine my Basset wanting to play games and to listen to me when she get a scent.
She seems to be in another world and would run for hours, jump ditch and climb banks to follow the scent. She isn't an athletic dog but she doesn't seems to realise that.
Even with my pockets full of cheese, she won't acknowledge me when she is singing and running behind a scent.
When the adrenaline is running, nothing will distract her and she would drop of tiredness before giving up.
As a result, i can never let her off lead, it's a shame but i adopted her at 7years old and i guess, it was too late then.
Still, i will also look into it, i also like a challenge but this one seems very big tbh !
She seems to be in another world and would run for hours, jump ditch and climb banks to follow the scent. She isn't an athletic dog but she doesn't seems to realise that.
Even with my pockets full of cheese, she won't acknowledge me when she is singing and running behind a scent.
When the adrenaline is running, nothing will distract her and she would drop of tiredness before giving up.
As a result, i can never let her off lead, it's a shame but i adopted her at 7years old and i guess, it was too late then.
Still, i will also look into it, i also like a challenge but this one seems very big tbh !
Smitty
Well-Known Member
I'm Dun, I have PMd you.
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
For 700 quid I would definitely want in-person, practical, hands-on training.
The problem is with any diversion/distraction/games etc is that you need a little second to prepare. Dogs have much more heightened senses than we do and prey animals don't tend to hang around while we fish out a rabbit skin tuggy or our bag of hotdogs and once a dog is off and running, it is incredibly hard to offer anything better than that, an activity which fulfills an incredibly primal need in a lot of dogs. In dogs which have had repeated success with hunt/chase/catch/kill, its is very hard to replicate the high that it creates, unless you are an incredibly skilled trainer and a very dynamic person.
Interesting to note, I have never seen a dog being 'force-free' when ripping little fluffy creatures limb from limb....
The problem is with any diversion/distraction/games etc is that you need a little second to prepare. Dogs have much more heightened senses than we do and prey animals don't tend to hang around while we fish out a rabbit skin tuggy or our bag of hotdogs and once a dog is off and running, it is incredibly hard to offer anything better than that, an activity which fulfills an incredibly primal need in a lot of dogs. In dogs which have had repeated success with hunt/chase/catch/kill, its is very hard to replicate the high that it creates, unless you are an incredibly skilled trainer and a very dynamic person.
Interesting to note, I have never seen a dog being 'force-free' when ripping little fluffy creatures limb from limb....
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Nope, it's very quick but my god is it brutal. I find it hard to reconcile my sensitive, super cuddly spoilt pet with the vicious murderer he is.
Following on from the sheep comment, we just went for a walk. There were lots of sheep and lambs out, both dogs on short leads by me. Thank God, because there were a ton of muntjac in the area, we saw a couple leap into the bushes, and then there was a black sheep that looked like a muntjac, the same sort of size and shape, same weird little horns, and Cooper showed far too much interest. He wasn't doing his yodelling hunting noise and his body language was more what the help is that rather than let me at it. I'm not sure he'd have killed it delibarately, but he would absolutely have gone over to check it out, and it would have run, and he'd have chased it and the end result would have been the same. No matter how steady you think they are, you just cant be totally sure nothing will ever catch their intention.
Id still take 10 fields of sheep over 1 bloody deer though!
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
So after a lot of chew I still cant access the free game. I don't care enough to get involved emailing their support team either. But this video is what it is. Which confirms my thoughts that some pet dogs that chase because its fun and they are a bit bored and go the same walks etc will engage and have a wonderful time. Mine go to different places every day, do a ton of enrichment and other stuff. I have no doubt they would play this with me a once or twice, but if I wanted them to do this all walk every walk there would be a mass mutiny! Whippets are notorious for just not engaging, so breed is going to make a difference as well. But no game on earth would stop mine if a deer launched out of the woods in front of us.
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
This might explain the "training " i have seen locally, dog gets rabbit sent, charges off and idiot owner chucks a ball across its path in the hope of distracting it. It would also explain the dog balls on our sheep field
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
Dogs in the video are clearly well-trained to indicate place markers, are not in hunting mode and are engaged with their handler. Lovely. Not sure what they're supposed to be tempted into chasing in that environment. Dolphins?
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
Ah, I met this training when mantrailing my girl. Off lead spaniel comes flying towards us, owners obviously saw the dog in training vest instructor was wearing, so lobbed a ball to try and distract it, which only resulted in my poor dog having a ball land a few feet from her, followed by a spaniel. She was a good girl and ignored it, then b***er me we met them again and they did the same thing!This might explain the "training " i have seen locally, dog gets rabbit sent, charges off and idiot owner chucks a ball across its path in the hope of distracting it. It would also explain the dog balls on our sheep field
planete
Well-Known Member
I trained the socks off my first lurcher. Pet classes, gundog classes, agility, man trailing...I instilled emergency stops, off lead heel work, practiced retrieves both straightforward and blind. And I had to realise that nothing would stop him if I failed to give the command for an emergency stop in the split second available before he took off after game. Ever seen a roe buck start out of a clump of Autumn bracken six feet from your dog? He will be on it before you can open your mouth. Thankfully he brought it down after a few yards and I was able to reach them before he had actually choked the life out of it and got him to let go. I am willing to be proved wrong but in my book the only failsafe prevention measure is a lead.
druid
Well-Known Member
I had a lurcher that was completely deer broken (and he had been killing them in previous home - just one one of the many reasons he ended up with me). We worked him as a gundog on an estate with many, many deer. I did, however, use an e collar to break his deer chasing habits at the time.
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
planete
Well-Known Member
I did think of an e collar but did not feel confident that I could use it with the exact timing necessary to be effective. One of my fosters was a deerhound cross and temperament wise could probably have been trained to be deer safe as he was very much more a person pleaser than my saluki/whippet/greyhound types and far less of a loose cannon.
Teaselmeg
Well-Known Member
I've been to a two day workshop by Simone. it's a very interesting concept, you work on games that mimic the prey sequence, but you are doing it together, so the dog learns that you can offer the same drive/fun for them as the prey. I've had my boy watch squirrels, ignore them and then turn away to me, where previously he would be on his hind legs screaming. It does take a lot of consistency, so people may not want to put the work in, but it definitely helps.
FionaMc
Well-Known Member
I would try reading the book Hunting Together before investing in the course.
Simone Mueller does put together a whole system for how you do this and has good proof points with high prey and hunt drive dogs. (She will also recommend being on a lead/longline throughout).
She is definitely not talking about distraction or diversion - but encouraging certain parts of the predatory sequence together with the handler, and often rewarding with substitutes for other parts of the sequence.
I think worth reading, even if not for you as it’s interesting stuff.
Simone Mueller does put together a whole system for how you do this and has good proof points with high prey and hunt drive dogs. (She will also recommend being on a lead/longline throughout).
She is definitely not talking about distraction or diversion - but encouraging certain parts of the predatory sequence together with the handler, and often rewarding with substitutes for other parts of the sequence.
I think worth reading, even if not for you as it’s interesting stuff.
twiggy2
Well-Known Member
I have trained many dogs to be stock proof, a large proportion of those have been terriers and lurchers.
Its far easier and more successful to train a dog to be stock proof or to be able to prevent the bog of hunting thing if its never been a reward in itself.
Dogs that have been off hunting and had the reward of that are far more difficult to train and be able to trust.
At the end of the day if the training replicates hunting and fulfils all those needs then the dog doesn't need to be off lead in areas that bogging of hunting is a possibility unless you are actively engaging with it.
I think the notion that owners need to interact with their dogs is an eye opener for many dog owners and that in itself is a worry.
Its far easier and more successful to train a dog to be stock proof or to be able to prevent the bog of hunting thing if its never been a reward in itself.
Dogs that have been off hunting and had the reward of that are far more difficult to train and be able to trust.
At the end of the day if the training replicates hunting and fulfils all those needs then the dog doesn't need to be off lead in areas that bogging of hunting is a possibility unless you are actively engaging with it.
I think the notion that owners need to interact with their dogs is an eye opener for many dog owners and that in itself is a worry.
planete
Well-Known Member
The lurcher whose deer catch I was able to rescue was totally stock proof and had never been worked. Do not underestimate instinct. He knew just what to do without ever having done it before: grab one hind leg of the running buck to slow it down, overtake it, jump for the throat and clamp the jaws around it to bring it down and start choking it to death. Very neat, very efficient, no mauling, no fumbling. He just knew.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
My lurcher went off after deer a few weeks ago and he is fine off lead everywhere else but the place he saw and chased the deer , as it’s a nice walk I now keep him on lead until past that area.. he has not forgotten so I’m afraid he will be on lead forever in that area…
Identityincrisis
Well-Known Member
Haha! You have a basset? I had 2
2 very different characters , one was a ‘good’ girl, the other was VERY naughty 
the good one was only good by default because the other was so naughty the naughty one was as you describe, if she had a scent (or was just bored of our company) she was off and no amount of calling would entice her back. She was eventually not allowed off lead as she nicked off one too many times! I remember once, she had been lost over 2 hours, i was crawling through undergrowth where she had been seen. I was calling and calling, i spotted her a couple of meters away and she still acted like i wasn’t there!!!! Total disregard for the stress she had put us through! Bloody bassets 
Clodagh
Playing chess with pigeons
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
The deer population has exploded, they are spilling over into rural and even urban areas as more houses are built
Pearlsasinger
Up in the clouds
This^^^^
One reason that we have had so much trouble with off-lead dogs getting into.our grazing is that so many walkers are glued to their phones and simply aren't available to nip any unwanted behaviour in the bud.
planete
Well-Known Member
Yes. Thirty years ago I knew which areas the deer where in, now they can be anywhere.
CorvusCorax
'Do you come here often?'
I just passed someone walking a Toller which was staring adoringly at her face. Engagement we would all kill for. BURNING her. She didn't appear to notice
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
Mine won’t even recall in the house despite hours of training. Unless there’s food involved she’s a typical saluki Lurcher. Totally self obsessed. We saw a lovely big buck deer on our walk today. She is always on the lead in open land. She watched him bound away and stared longingly in his direction. Sorry mate! Can’t afford the vet bills when it all goes wrong!!
Identityincrisis
Well-Known Member
Or pick up the poo because they’re not paying attention to the dog! The poo around our local area is disgusting
pistolpete
Well-Known Member
That’s a whole other topic!