Farmers field margins - hunt route

FabioandFreddy

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Hi,

I know a lot of the farmers field margins near us are the set aside they get subsidies for. However, the field directly behind us the local hunt often use - would this mean it's likely not subsidised? I'd like to ask for permission to use it but just gauging my chances first!!
 

Shay

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With permission you can ride on set aside field margins. It doesn't matter what else or who else might be able to ride there. But it is private land so you must have express permission first. Don't assume that just because the hunt have permission that you can do so also.
 

poiuytrewq

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I don't really know how all this works but live on a farm and am allowed with care to ride on the field margins. They are in a scheme for wild birds and flowers/insects. This year they did let the hunt over but I think it's a time of year that obviously the flowers aren't growing and insects are probably not around either.
Still definitely worth approaching for permission but I'd not take the fact the hunt ride on them as a definite sadly!
 

Goldenstar

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Another thing to consider is that someone other than the farmer may own or have control of the sporting rights.
 

SEL

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Our local farmer won't let us ride around the margins because of the subsidies he gets - he says if they see horse poo there then he'll lose his money.

He does let the hunt over - I think its a case of one rule for them and another for us!
 

glamourpuss

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My experience of this is they tend to say 'no'. It's nothing personal & nothing to do with subsidies...but more likely to be that if any other horse riders see/find out that you are riding on the area they will think it's fair game & start riding on it too....then it gets damaged & THEN they lose their subsidies.

This actually happened to me, I had permission to ride on some certain set aside areas around me. I was very careful (only at a walk, not when they were wet, being respectful) but must've been seen by other horse owners in the area who thought they would also ride there without asking permission.
They absolutely trashed the edge of one of the fields - 4 of them cantering backwards & forwards across it. Poor farmer got into lots of bother because of it.
He had no choice but to put up huge signs & block the entrances, he came & spoke to me & was very apologetic about having to stop me riding there as well but he had no choice.
I totally understand why he did it & was fuming on his behalf.

It's no wonder most farmers just say a flat 'No' to requests.
 

Clodagh

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As most hunts drag over a set route and are easily traceable most would have permission.

Meanwhile, back in reality!

We do not allow horses on our field margins as when we were in the ELS it effected the payments. In practice a select few were allowed, as long as it was dry and they didn't damage it.
Some landowners have now come out of ELS so your chances may be higher, unless it comes under 'greening'. (I am a farmers wife and it loses me, tbh).
The hunt make a mess but it recovers quickly come the spring, I suppose if the farmer is pro it is woirth the risk as they are unlikely to come over more than once or twice a season. Many hunt followers nowdays seem unable to distinguish between crops and margins anyway.

ETA you have nothing to lose by asking, offer to pay and go and speak face to face.
 

Orangehorse

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"No" because of subsidies was a general get out clause really. If they left a wider margin then that was "acceptable" - it is how Toll Rides were able to use field margins - except for those specifically in a wildlife scheme where you are really not allowed.

Also farmers are very wary about liability issues. We were all set to be able to use a few field edges to avoid some main roads and join up a couple of bridlepaths when the farmer's daughter who is a solicitor said "no way - If a rider falls off or the horse gets damaged they will sue you."

Around here hunts have permission and are generous in return = free point to point ticket & farmers' dinner.
 

Annagain

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Sorry to hijack but does anybody have any advice on how best to approach a local farmer to see about setting up some sort of permit ride scheme? We have limited off road hacking and an award winning local farmer who is very well known for diversification and being very forward thinking so I (as my local riding club chair) would like to try to set up a meeting to see if she'd be open to doing something like this. She has some lovely field margins that would link beautifully with a couple of the very limited bridlepaths we have to create circular routes that would keep us off a very busy road. I'd like to be as prepared as possible before I speak to her so is there any information out there I could swot up on first please? Are there any organisations (other than the BHS, I've already spoken to them) who might be able to offer us both advice on how to make it work?
 

jrp204

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I would guess if they have 'really lovely margins' they will be buffer strips or he will be in an ELS or HLS. I very much doubt, since his Single Farm Payment will rely on conditions being met that he would want to risk contravening the rules. But, you can only ask.
 

Annagain

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I would guess if they have 'really lovely margins' they will be buffer strips or he will be in an ELS or HLS. I very much doubt, since his Single Farm Payment will rely on conditions being met that he would want to risk contravening the rules. But, you can only ask.

When I say "really lovely margins" I mean from the point of view that they'd be lovely for a good canter, they're not a thing of beauty. I have seen some that are specifically set aside for wildlife etc and these don't look the same as those. And he's a she :p :)
 

Aleka81

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Sorry to hijack but does anybody have any advice on how best to approach a local farmer to see about setting up some sort of permit ride scheme? We have limited off road hacking and an award winning local farmer who is very well known for diversification and being very forward thinking so I (as my local riding club chair) would like to try to set up a meeting to see if she'd be open to doing something like this. She has some lovely field margins that would link beautifully with a couple of the very limited bridlepaths we have to create circular routes that would keep us off a very busy road. I'd like to be as prepared as possible before I speak to her so is there any information out there I could swot up on first please? Are there any organisations (other than the BHS, I've already spoken to them) who might be able to offer us both advice on how to make it work?

Permit schemes are notoriously difficult! In my experience no farmer or land owner in there right mind will entertain this if they speak to others who have tried to offer this.
 

Annagain

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Permit schemes are notoriously difficult! In my experience no farmer or land owner in there right mind will entertain this if they speak to others who have tried to offer this.

Thanks - I feared this might be the case. Will give it a try anyway!
 

ironhorse

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Generally if the margins are part of an environmental scheme and the farmer is receiving a payment for them, then she won't be able to earn money from a permit system which includes them. :(
There is a farmer near us who has a permit arrangement with a neighbouring livery yard, not sure how above board this is!
Not sure if the TROT (toll rides) organisation is still going - worth a google. Another possibility is to talk to a landowner that operates such a scheme - I think Somerford EC in Cheshire has one?
 

Orangehorse

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Sorry to hijack but does anybody have any advice on how best to approach a local farmer to see about setting up some sort of permit ride scheme? We have limited off road hacking and an award winning local farmer who is very well known for diversification and being very forward thinking so I (as my local riding club chair) would like to try to set up a meeting to see if she'd be open to doing something like this. She has some lovely field margins that would link beautifully with a couple of the very limited bridlepaths we have to create circular routes that would keep us off a very busy road. I'd like to be as prepared as possible before I speak to her so is there any information out there I could swot up on first please? Are there any organisations (other than the BHS, I've already spoken to them) who might be able to offer us both advice on how to make it work?

TROT - Toll Rides Off Road Trust is a charity in Kent that has been operating toll rides for 20 odd years. They help riders to set up a ride, they don't come and do it for you!

It operates so that the charity has the contract with the landowner, and riders who wish to use the route pay a subscription (like a riding club). The charity takes a % for admin, insurance, etc and the rest goes to the landowner.

Having helped to run these rides it is vital that the local riders are keen and want the ride, and will use it responsibly and that is serves a real need. Also that the Local Agent (the person who is the link between the landowner, riders and TROT)would be using it a lot, so they really keep an eye on things.

The original idea was that they would be for riders to use for frequent use for hacking and exercising, rather than a "destination" special ride, although some of those exist. It is no good thinking to put one in and hope that it will be used, local help and enthusiasm is vital to start with.

Some of the routes in Kent are up to 20 miles of linking bridlepaths, quiet lanes and commons. It can work, if there are enough keen people. What I found was that everyone thought it was a good idea, but the hardest part was getting the riders to pay.
 

Orangehorse

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Generally if the margins are part of an environmental scheme and the farmer is receiving a payment for them, then she won't be able to earn money from a permit system which includes them. :(
There is a farmer near us who has a permit arrangement with a neighbouring livery yard, not sure how above board this is!
Not sure if the TROT (toll rides) organisation is still going - worth a google. Another possibility is to talk to a landowner that operates such a scheme - I think Somerford EC in Cheshire has one?


No, but the farmer can easily make the margin a bit wider. This was endorsed by DEFRA.
 

FabioandFreddy

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Thanks all. I would assume the hunt do have permission as they meet at one of the farmers houses at least once in the season. The farmer with the other field that meets our land I'm not sure but would think so.

So now to get the balls to ask! I hate having to do stuff like that with people I don't know! Would be happy to pay to use though if they would allow permission
 

bollybop

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I would guess if the hunt gave permission to use them, they are literally going to be there for one day a year, giving "general" permission out could lead to horses on it every day of the year
 
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