Faster work bitting / schooling advice

little_critter

little_critter

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My horse is ridden in a eggbutt snaffle with lozenge and his brakes are fine in the school, however we did some faster canter work in the fields yesterday and our brakes were a little lacking.
He doesn't put his head up / down, he's just ignorant to my requests to steady up / stop. He does do it...eventually without a fight, it just takes more pulling on my part than I would like. There's nothing nasty to it. I want to try some xc in a few months time and wouldn't want to be approaching a fence while he is "la la la I'm not listening"

So, I know the answer to this is always "it's a schooling issue"
a) what schooling exercises would you suggest when we are out and about trotting / cantering to get him to listen more (bear in mind I'm limited to cantering round field margins / tracks so can't do circles and shapes)
b) could a change of bit help? any suggestions what? It only needs to be a little bit stronger to get his attention.
c) I do wonder if he dislikes pressure on his bars, when schooling he doesn't like to soften at the poll and can feel like he's holding against you. So maybe an all round change of bit for both schooling and faster work if he is being ignorant through discomfort? (I do think I generally have a light contact, I'm not a heavy handed rider and like to ride as gently as possible) What mouthpieces take the pressure away from the bars (would need to be BD legal)

He's only recently changed from a lose ring French link snaffle and I would say he is similar in both the lose ring French link and the eggbutt with lozenge.
 
I like my Neue Schue lozenge Universal bit for fast work - its interesting because I started off needing it on the bottom ring for brakes but that was short lived once we were able to school a bit more in it and then I was able to move to the snaffle ring, it still gives a bit of extra leverage needed from a regular snaffle.

I think its worth playing around with another bit when doing different disciplines because you are teaching different things!!
 
I put anything over keen out hacking or doing fast work, in a kimblewick. When I got Millie last year, I took her on the stubble and had a serious brakes failure. Schooling she’s as soft as a brush in the mouth and instantly responsive to pressure, but she shifted gears on the stubble and I had major trouble stopping. Popped her in a kimblewick and took her out again and she was mannerly and came back to me at the lightest touch.
She now hacks and does fast work in a snaffle, but it did help me initially to have the kimblewick in.
I’ve used them for the last 25 years on a variety of horses and they are still my go to bit.
 
No suggestions, but having been royally carted by my 22yr old tonight (first time in his life I've ever been a bit scared on him) I understand why you want to have more control.
 
Yes I used to use a kimblewick on a strong horse. The mare doesn't get strong she just gets silly and wangs her head around and I can usually stop it by lifting up one rein or the other... lifting is key, if you pull she just grabs and goes for it at the rodeo.
 
Thanks folks, I was thinking kimblewick. I happen to have a Pelham and might just see what he’s like in that tomorrow but it might be overkill.
I know he’s used to a curb action as he has previously showed so competed on either a Pelham or a double.
If he doesn’t like pressure on his bars what mouthpiece would be best?
 
i used a dutch gag with 2 reins on my old mare as when hacking she could take off at odd times, , i used the top rein (snaffle) as routine but on the occasions i was being tanked off with i used the bottom rein to give a stronger aid and it worked well. i tried hacking in a pelham but she hated it and got very jiggy and behind the bit so then she tanked off with her chin on her chest and that was really scary....just used an eggbut snaffle for dressage and she was easily controllable it was only hacking and things like fun rides that i had problems with,,
 
little_critter said:
Thanks folks, I was thinking kimblewick. I happen to have a Pelham and might just see what he’s like in that tomorrow but it might be overkill.
I know he’s used to a curb action as he has previously showed so competed on either a Pelham or a double.
If he doesn’t like pressure on his bars what mouthpiece would be best?
Click to expand...


Ported Kimblewick - I use one for exciting stuff with my mare - she has a large tongue & low palette & she's very happy with this 😊
 
Kimblewick bought off eBay this morning so will see how he goes in it. It’s just the cantering that’s an issue, after a bit of an argument over speed / pulling up on Tuesday, he happily walked home (through the fields) on a long rein with no hint of wanting to go faster.
 
Tried the Kimblewick today. He seemed perfectly comfortable in it on a walk hack,
Walk, trot, walk transitions in the field all fine
Cantering in field was lovely; I could get a soft, sensible canter with just some light resistance down the reins...lovely
Until I increased the rein pressure just a bit to ask him to pull up from canter. His head shot in the air, back went tight and he really didn’t like it. And I wouldn’t say it was an evasion, more a shocked “what’s just happened in my gob?!”
I think the curb chain was maybe a link too short. Would a too short curb cause this head in the air reaction? Or is it worth looking at an elastic curb?
Just wondering if it’s worth experimenting with curb chains or if that reaction is likely to be nothing to do with the curb.
He has worn a Pelham / Double (can’t tell which) previously in showing so a curb isn’t new to him.
 
I am considering a kineton noseband after some googling. I can have a short canter on a track without a brakes problem but in a field she switches into "hunting mode" (although no idea if she has ever hunted) and gets worryingly locked on to the hedge line in front of her! I don't particularly want to use curb action for more brakes as I school in a Pelham and want to keep it light and easy on the curb. So I was considering nose pressure and whether a myler combination or a kineton noseband might just give me that little bit more braking power when needed without increasing hardware in the mouth.

I don't know really. I feel your pain. She'll halt from trot if I squeeze my bum muscles so is nice and responsive but when that hunt mode kicks in she's not listening!
 
little_critter said:
Tried the Kimblewick today. He seemed perfectly comfortable in it on a walk hack,
Walk, trot, walk transitions in the field all fine
Cantering in field was lovely; I could get a soft, sensible canter with just some light resistance down the reins...lovely
Until I increased the rein pressure just a bit to ask him to pull up from canter. His head shot in the air, back went tight and he really didn’t like it. And I wouldn’t say it was an evasion, more a shocked “what’s just happened in my gob?!”
I think the curb chain was maybe a link too short. Would a too short curb cause this head in the air reaction? Or is it worth looking at an elastic curb?
Just wondering if it’s worth experimenting with curb chains or if that reaction is likely to be nothing to do with the curb.
He has worn a Pelham / Double (can’t tell which) previously in showing so a curb isn’t new to him.
Click to expand...
Id try a leather or elastic curb strap, lunge him in it and then lunge on 2 reins at all transitions to assess from the ground what his reactions are. That said, I prefer a Pelham where poss if I have to use a curb.

B Fuzzy is rather skitterish and currently I 'could' do with something stronger for about 10% of the time. I've been advised by folk to go to a Waterford, a Kineton, Pelham, a crank with flash etc etc and the list goes on.... all of which I do have in my armoury, but she actually has a lovely mouth till she decides to opt out, which is getting less and less in a schooling situation.

Instead, I've been having to put in loads of flat work, shes in a French link with cheeks and a relatively loose drop noseband, if she cant get her 'way' then she was flipping her tongue over the bit however high it might be and either rushed or got behind the bridle. Lots of steady stuff at present. She will still default out hacking if something bugs her but its getting less and less.

Good luck!
 
Is it a slotted (Uttoxeter) Kimblewick? Mine is & I only use the top slot - less pressure - your curb chain should be loose enough to fit two fingers upright between chin groove & chain 🙂
 
Micky said:
Transitions through the paces and lots of them!
Click to expand...
This. If you have field margins to use, start out 30paces walk, 30 trot then 30 canter. Repeat, repeat, repeat. If you can, add in leg yield both ways in trot. It does work, but you do need lots of practice. I don’t have field margins, just did as many pleasure rides as I possibly could until he was listening!
ETA if he runs away with you in 30 paces start with 10.
 
Tihama said:
Is it a slotted (Uttoxeter) Kimblewick? Mine is & I only use the top slot - less pressure - your curb chain should be loose enough to fit two fingers upright between chin groove & chain 🙂
Click to expand...
I’ve moved the rein now so it’s not in the slot at all, just round the bit ring so less leverage. Will check curb fit tomorrow
 
little_critter said:
Tried the Kimblewick today. He seemed perfectly comfortable in it on a walk hack,
Walk, trot, walk transitions in the field all fine
Cantering in field was lovely; I could get a soft, sensible canter with just some light resistance down the reins...lovely
Until I increased the rein pressure just a bit to ask him to pull up from canter. His head shot in the air, back went tight and he really didn’t like it. And I wouldn’t say it was an evasion, more a shocked “what’s just happened in my gob?!”
I think the curb chain was maybe a link too short. Would a too short curb cause this head in the air reaction? Or is it worth looking at an elastic curb?
Just wondering if it’s worth experimenting with curb chains or if that reaction is likely to be nothing to do with the curb.
He has worn a Pelham / Double (can’t tell which) previously in showing so a curb isn’t new to him.
Click to expand...
No honestly don't do elastic as you can't gauge the pressure and release may not be quick enough. Try a one-handed lift - it's subtle and really works. Keep one rein steady with a soft contact and lift with your other, you only need a twist up palm towards your face and a very clear upwards smooth motion. Practice somewhere safe on both reins. Lifting is the key towards the corner of the mouth, any pulling back affects the bars which is painful in a straight bar.
 
tallyho! said:
No honestly don't do elastic as you can't gauge the pressure and release may not be quick enough. Try a one-handed lift - it's subtle and really works. Keep one rein steady with a soft contact and lift with your other, you only need a twist up palm towards your face and a very clear upwards smooth motion. Practice somewhere safe on both reins. Lifting is the key towards the corner of the mouth, any pulling back affects the bars which is painful in a straight bar.
Click to expand...
Great - thank you. The plan tonight is to try the longer curb chain. If he goes ok in it then we will do lots of transitions in all paces so he's listening for the next transition instead of bowling on.
Will work on using my seat more and lifting the rein.
 
Tried the longer curb chain and the reins in the higher slots. Brakes were fine, we worked on transitions, never doing more that 10 paces of trot or canter (fewer if he felt like he was trying to take hold)
However, I think he doesn’t like the Kimblewick, towards the end of the session (when he was calm, so not an evasion) he was pulling down on the bit which I understand is trying to avoid pressure on the bars.
I’m going to try a Wilkie, I know they are generally disliked but I understand they act like a mild gag so should keep pressure off the bars.
Once we’ve mastered getting him listening in a stronger bit I hope to move back down to a snaffle.
 
little_critter said:
Tried the longer curb chain and the reins in the higher slots. Brakes were fine, we worked on transitions, never doing more that 10 paces of trot or canter (fewer if he felt like he was trying to take hold)
However, I think he doesn’t like the Kimblewick, towards the end of the session (when he was calm, so not an evasion) he was pulling down on the bit which I understand is trying to avoid pressure on the bars.
I’m going to try a Wilkie, I know they are generally disliked but I understand they act like a mild gag so should keep pressure off the bars.
Once we’ve mastered getting him listening in a stronger bit I hope to move back down to a snaffle.
Click to expand...

Why are Wilkies generally disliked?!
They are a pretty good option for a step up from a snaffle, mild gag action but nothing sinister, certainly worth a try - my big lad showjumps in one. We are still trying to find the right XC bit now he has found the go button
 
ihatework said:
Why are Wilkies generally disliked?!
They are a pretty good option for a step up from a snaffle, mild gag action but nothing sinister, certainly worth a try - my big lad showjumps in one. We are still trying to find the right XC bit now he has found the go button
Click to expand...

I have no idea, I have used them and they tend to be my first step up from a snaffle, I had one eventer that was too strong xc in a snaffle and a Wilkie was just enough to allow the rider to half halt quietly when required, far neater than a dutch gag which seems to be the main bit in evidence in my area.
 
little_critter said:
If you google wilkie bit you fill find lots of 'haters'. I suspect stemming from their use on childrens' showing ponies.
Click to expand...

But put it into context - the whole point is that show ponies/horses just need to trot (or be led) around a ring in a mannerly way. They really have to do bog all other than be the right type, have basic schooling and behave themselves. For a kids pony if it can’t do that in a snaffle then I can get the criticism on a Wilkie.
 
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