Feed balancer: TopSpec or BlueChip?

[SpanishNeddy]

I am trying to decide what feed balancer I should feed my Spanish boy and wondered what people recommend.

Am I right in thinking TopSpec and BlueChip are the leaders? If so what one do you prefer?

I was also considering Dengie HiFi Balancer and D&H Ultimate Balancer but only if they are as good/better than BlueChip or TopSpec otherwise it will be out of those two!!

Help appreciated.

 

[Toast]

Ive heard good things about both but id go for topspec as its cheaper. Bluechip feeds are wonderful but wonderfully overpriced!!

 

[Oberon]

Brand names and price mean nothing.

It depends on how suitable they are to compliment your forage.

I would suggest neither are.

 

[Guignol]

I would agree Top Spec...

 

[PolarSkye]

Brand names and price mean nothing.

It depends on how suitable they are to compliment your forage.

I would suggest neither are.

Really? Why? Genuine question, btw.

P

 

[Amaranta]

Really? Why? Genuine question, btw.

P

Yes me too!

Balancers are designed to complement forage, to me there is a world of difference between Blue Chip and TopSpec and would go TopSpec every time on spec alone. However, the Spillers Balancer is also very good.

OP if your horse is in hard work then TopSpec Comprehensive Balancer or Spillers Original, if, however he is in light-medium work (which most leisure horses are tbh) you could go for the lite versions of either. D&H Ultimate Balancer is nigh on identical in spec to TopSpec and also a little cheaper - don't be influenced by what other people are buying but rather what is best for your horse.

 

[maggiesmum]

Because they may well be balanced but what are they balanced too?
Is your forage perfectly balanced in vitamins and minerals to a horses daily requirements?

Most grass and hay/haylage is high in a few things and low in others so with a 'balancer' on top you'll be totally overloaded on some minerals and underfeeding on others.
If ones too high it will block the uptake of another... its a complex subject but IMHO balancers are a lot of money for a bag of uncertainty.

 

[Oberon]

Really? Why? Genuine question, btw.

P

Almost all commercial supplements are too high in iron and too low in copper, zinc and magnesium to be of full benefit.

They calculate their nutrient ration via computer software that doesn't appreciate the common inbalances in most of the UK's grazing or even mineral's absorption relationships to each other (save for calcium and phosphorous).

I am continuously amazed that horses are as healthy as they are, given the 'microwave dinners' of feeds and supplements we feed them

The fact that feral horses appear healthier than our domestic horses just embarasses me.

 

[Oberon]

Yes me too!

Balancers are designed to complement forage, to me there is a world of difference between Blue Chip and TopSpec and would go TopSpec every time on spec alone. However, the Spillers Balancer is also very good.

OP if your horse is in hard work then TopSpec Comprehensive Balancer or Spillers Original, if, however he is in light-medium work (which most leisure horses are tbh) you could go for the lite versions of either. D&H Ultimate Balancer is nigh on identical in spec to TopSpec and also a little cheaper - don't be influenced by what other people are buying but rather what is best for your horse.

But how do they know what's in the forage (which changes from area to area - including the water) without testing it prior?

 

[Spyda]

I am continuously amazed that horses are as healthy as they are, given the 'microwave dinners' of feeds and supplements we feed them

The fact that feral horses appear healthier than our domestic horses just embarasses me.

Interesting. How do you recommend the average horse is fed? Is there a supplement you recommend to compensate the general lack of minerals?

 

[Spyda]

I am trying to decide what feed balancer I should feed my Spanish boy and wondered what people recommend.

Am I right in thinking TopSpec and BlueChip are the leaders? If so what one do you prefer?

I was also considering Dengie HiFi Balancer and D&H Ultimate Balancer but only if they are as good/better than BlueChip or TopSpec otherwise it will be out of those two!!

Help appreciated.

Have you thought of Bailey's Lo Cal or Spillers Lite balancer instead of the expensive full-blown balancers? My WBxTB sports horse has been on one or the other of these and looks absolutely fabulous with just the addition of ad-lib grazing or hay (in winter). Lots of people use and recommend the Bailey's Lo Cal on here, and not just for fatty ponies needing their weight kept down!

 

[SpanishNeddy]

I would say he is light to medium work yes. He is only a baby and coming back into work from having an operation. But he does some showing and dressage. I currently feed him HiFi molasses free chaff and he gets a nutball (D&H High Fibre Nuts) plus supplements (garlic, MSN & Magnitude).

So how do you know TopSpec is better than BlueChip?

Did someone say D&H Ultimate Balancer is as good as TopSpec??? I like D&H products.

 

[Daytona]

I used to always use blue chip until I came across a website where someone had compared the ingredients if all the main balancers and topspec came up tops, it had the most of everything in it, and it's cheaper so I changed over and have noticed no difference in my horse, still looks lovely and shiny

 

[Amaranta]

Almost all commercial supplements are too high in iron and too low in copper, zinc and magnesium to be of full benefit.

They calculate their nutrient ration via computer software that doesn't appreciate the common inbalances in most of the UK's grazing or even mineral's absorption relationships to each other (save for calcium and phosphorous).

I am continuously amazed that horses are as healthy as they are, given the 'microwave dinners' of feeds and supplements we feed them

The fact that feral horses appear healthier than our domestic horses just embarasses me.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you there, having checked the spec on many many commercial balancers.

We do not have a magnesium deficiency in this country, although parts of the country are low in copper.

Re the computer software comment, this begs the question why the major feed companies spend thousands on nutritionists! Blimey they could save themselves a fortune if they just used a computer. I also know several nutritionists personally who would be absolutely horrified by your suggestions. Nicola Tyler from TopSpec for instance works personally on every single product that company produces,

 

[Amaranta]

I would say he is light to medium work yes. He is only a baby and coming back into work from having an operation. But he does some showing and dressage. I currently feed him HiFi molasses free chaff and he gets a nutball (D&H High Fibre Nuts) plus supplements (garlic, MSN & Magnitude).

So how do you know TopSpec is better than BlueChip?

Did someone say D&H Ultimate Balancer is as good as TopSpec??? I like D&H products.

If you check the specs on TS and BC (label on the bag) you can see that the TopSpec has much more to it and it is also on a soya base so you get the added benefit of shine. D&H Ultimate has almost an identical spec to TS, the only difference is the base which I believe is, like BC, wheatfeed.

Personally I would go for either TS Leisure Time or Spillers Lite as your chap does not need the level of vit/mins a horse in harder work would. If you do however feed too many vits etc, don't worry, these will be excreted naturally and harmlessly in the horse's urine.

I did forget about Lo-cal, but this is also a good option.

 

[Spyda]

I am trying to decide what feed balancer I should feed my Spanish boy and wondered what people recommend.

Am I right in thinking TopSpec and BlueChip are the leaders? If so what one do you prefer?

I was also considering Dengie HiFi Balancer and D&H Ultimate Balancer but only if they are as good/better than BlueChip or TopSpec otherwise it will be out of those two!!

Help appreciated.

You might find this link informative http://www.freewebs.com/higgyleiko/Balancer - per 500kg horse new(1).xls

 

[Oberon]

Sorry but I have to disagree with you there, having checked the spec on many many commercial balancers.

We do not have a magnesium deficiency in this country, although parts of the country are low in copper.

Re the computer software comment, this begs the question why the major feed companies spend thousands on nutritionists! Blimey they could save themselves a fortune if they just used a computer. I also know several nutritionists personally who would be absolutely horrified by your suggestions. Nicola Tyler from TopSpec for instance works personally on every single product that company produces,

We don't have a magnesium deficiency - we have too much calcium and/or phosphorous which blocks and limits absorption of magnesium.

Most 'calmers' are magnesium based due to the chronic deficiencies in some horses (which can cause aggitation).

I can't speak for the nutritionists - but they work on the NRC's advice for nutrients. The NRC works on how much you feed of the minerals to avoid a deficiency. Avoiding a deficiency is not the same as adding enough to keep a healthy horse.

Using 150% - 200% of the NRC of nutrients often yields much better results....but only when they are in balance. Which they are often not.

I really don't understand why feed companies pay nutritionists - and yet still come out with crap that contributes to behavioural problems/ulcers/hoof problems.....

 

[Oberon]

Interesting. How do you recommend the average horse is fed? Is there a supplement you recommend to compensate the general lack of minerals?

There are currently two commercial mineral supplements that I will agree with, but after another poster huffed at me and accused me of 'stealth marketing' recently, I am not going to say what they are.

 

[BlairandAzria]

Can't quote as on the phone but the link spyda provided is out if date.

I did a lot of research when I got My new horse as he was undernourished, I googled and rang around nearly every feed company trying to get a list of ingredients in their balancers -I'm a geek at heart and have an excel spreadsheet with a breakdown of the informatIon I got. I was very surprised by the reaction from the lady I spoke to at topspec who would not, point blank refused-to provide me with an ingredients list or quantities, although I do believe this info is on the bag, although I may be mistaken . Blue chip recommended I feed their balancer plus supplement with msm and oil.

In any case, if you're interested im more than happy to pass you across the info I have.

I currently feed GWFs equilibra 500, and have fed d&h ultimate balancer. IME there are a couple I wouldn't feed and i couple i really like but put of the others they're all very similar, so it totally depends on personal preference.

As you have a youngster have you looked at d&h suregrow? Might be worth giving a coupe of companies a call to see what they recommend?

 

[BlairandAzria]

Oberon can you pm me the supplements you recommend? I'm very interested, and have found a lot of your barefoot posts extremely helpful over the last few months, I'd value your info!

 

[Amaranta]

We don't have a magnesium deficiency - we have too much calcium and/or phosphorous which blocks and limits absorption of magnesium.

Most 'calmers' are magnesium based due to the chronic deficiencies in some horses (which can cause aggitation).

I can't speak for the nutritionists - but they work on the NRC's advice for nutrients. The NRC works on how much you feed of the minerals to avoid a deficiency. Avoiding a deficiency is not the same as adding enough to keep a healthy horse.

Using 150% - 200% of the NRC of nutrients often yields much better results....but only when they are in balance. Which they are often not.

I really don't understand why feed companies pay nutritionists - and yet still come out with crap that contributes to behavioural problems/ulcers/hoof problems.....

I agree that phosphorous can inhibit the absorbtion of magnesium, which is one of the reasons that magnesium can be beneficial to laminitics. The only other group of horses to benefit from magnesium are racehorses and horses who do not get enough fibre in the form of forage.

Re magnesium calmers, personally I do not find them very effective as the vast majority of horses in the UK are not deficient (aside from the two groups mentioned above). A triptophan based product is much more likely to bring results, as can cutting out starch and feeding a probiotic.

The majority the problems you mention are not caused by nutritionists bringing out 'crap' products, rather they are caused by owners overfeeding their horses, the majority of leisure horses in this country do not need 'hard' feed, they simply do not work hard enough, most would do well on fibre and a vit/min supplement or a balancer.

The behavioural problems/ulcers/hoof problems we are experiencing are not because the vit/min content is out of balance, it is simply a fact of feeding too much starch and not enough fibre.

 

[Cupcakes and Horses]

I used to always use blue chip until I came across a website where someone had compared the ingredients if all the main balancers and topspec came up tops, it had the most of everything in it, and it's cheaper so I changed over and have noticed no difference in my horse, still looks lovely and shiny

That's very interesting I am blue chip fan as have been using if for years with good results so I haven't bothered looking into anything else.....why fix what isn't broken....but that has got me thinking some research might be in order

 

[maggiesmum]

I'm with Oberon on this and Ive fed blue chip (good results), top spec (never again! I have no wish to die!), lo-cal (noticed no difference) and D&H Ultimate balancer (again noticed no real difference) but my horses have never looked better than they do now without all the expensive feeds.
It just doesn't add up how 1 bag of feed expects to balance the forage over the entire country to meet a horses daily requirements! How can it possibly balance both a wild flower meadow (and yes there are still a few here and there) AND a field of grass that was sown and has been treated for years to be suitable for dairy cows (lots of diversification going on!)?

 

[Amaranta]

Can't quote as on the phone but the link spyda provided is out if date.

I did a lot of research when I got My new horse as he was undernourished, I googled and rang around nearly every feed company trying to get a list of ingredients in their balancers -I'm a geek at heart and have an excel spreadsheet with a breakdown of the informatIon I got. I was very surprised by the reaction from the lady I spoke to at topspec who would not, point blank refused-to provide me with an ingredients list or quantities, although I do believe this info is on the bag, although I may be mistaken . Blue chip recommended I feed their balancer plus supplement with msm and oil.

In any case, if you're interested im more than happy to pass you across the info I have.

I currently feed GWFs equilibra 500, and have fed d&h ultimate balancer. IME there are a couple I wouldn't feed and i couple i really like but put of the others they're all very similar, so it totally depends on personal preference.

As you have a youngster have you looked at d&h suregrow? Might be worth giving a coupe of companies a call to see what they recommend?

Very surprised at the lady from TopSpecs reation tbh, I picked up a detailed list of ingedients from my merchant just the other day, they publish it readily

There are vast differences in all of the balancers and you really do need to check the labels.

 

[maggiesmum]

The only other group of horses to benefit from magnesium are racehorses and horses who do not get enough fibre in the form of forage.

Actually barefoot horses benefit massively too.

most would do well on fibre and a vit/min supplement or a balancer.

Neither of which are balanced to each other or the grazing and hay that the horse is also consuming - which is the whole point!

 

[BlairandAzria]

Amaranta sorry can't quote, I was very surprised too. I explained it was purely for personal research and all I wanted was a basic ingredient breakdown, such as can be found on most other feed company websites ... Maybe she was new?

 

[Oberon]

I agree that phosphorous can inhibit the absorbtion of magnesium, which is one of the reasons that magnesium can be beneficial to laminitics. The only other group of horses to benefit from magnesium are racehorses and horses who do not get enough fibre in the form of forage.

Re magnesium calmers, personally I do not find them very effective as the vast majority of horses in the UK are not deficient (aside from the two groups mentioned above). A triptophan based product is much more likely to bring results, as can cutting out starch and feeding a probiotic.

The majority the problems you mention are not caused by nutritionists bringing out 'crap' products, rather they are caused by owners overfeeding their horses, the majority of leisure horses in this country do not need 'hard' feed, they simply do not work hard enough, most would do well on fibre and a vit/min supplement or a balancer.

The behavioural problems/ulcers/hoof problems we are experiencing are not because the vit/min content is out of balance, it is simply a fact of feeding too much starch and not enough fibre.

I do agree with you - but I do feel feed companies should shoulder some of the blame. They market inappropriate feeds to horse owners and blag some science to sell it.

The owners never know where to turn half the time...YOs and feed store owners are often the points of contact and advice!

Molasses in the guise of mogolo in lamintic feeds. Wheatfeed in laminitic feeds....I could go on and on.

I don't think the prevalence of ulcers is only dietary - but grains and conditioning feeds really won't be helping the situation.

I had a forage analysis done by Dodson and Horrell - who highlighted the problems with my forage and then on the next page tried to flog me some of their feeds that were totally inappropriate!

I really can't take the word of any nutritionist who is paid by a feed company. I would only consider using an independent with a good reputation.

 

[Amaranta]

I'm with Oberon on this and Ive fed blue chip (good results), top spec (never again! I have no wish to die!), lo-cal (noticed no difference) and D&H Ultimate balancer (again noticed no real difference) but my horses have never looked better than they do now without all the expensive feeds.
It just doesn't add up how 1 bag of feed expects to balance the forage over the entire country to meet a horses daily requirements! How can it possibly balance both a wild flower meadow (and yes there are still a few here and there) AND a field of grass that was sown and has been treated for years to be suitable for dairy cows (lots of diversification going on!)?

I must admit that I had one react to TopSpec, only one out of 15 but react she did, and like you I had not wish to die so now feed Spillers.

Unless we all en masse have our pastures analysed and then get bespoke supplements made (all the feed companies do this btw) there will always be a need for 'blanket' type supplements which cover the majority of a horses needs. As I said before, anything the horse does not use is harmlessly excreted.

This applies to ANY off the shelf supplement and/or balancer.

 

[Oberon]

I must admit that I had one react to TopSpec, only one out of 15 but react she did, and like you I had not wish to die so now feed Spillers.

Unless we all en masse have our pastures analysed and then get bespoke supplements made (all the feed companies do this btw) there will always be a need for 'blanket' type supplements which cover the majority of a horses needs. As I said before, anything the horse does not use is harmlessly excreted.

This applies to ANY off the shelf supplement and/or balancer.

Iron is a big problem - they can't easily excrete that. Too much Vit C will also enhance iron absorption - robbing zinc....

Other excretion ability isn't the problem - it's the imbalances they cause while they're in there.

It would be lovely if we all got our forage analysed - or refused to buy hay/haylage unless it was already done by the seller (I believe this is the norm in the dairy industry in the US).

Until then - we need to demand better and more balanced. Equimins has listened to us and brought out a specific product - as has another company.

Hopefully it won't be long until the other companies catch on.

I saw amazing improvements in my elderly boy (who was already healthy and had a 'good diet') when I balanced my minerals - I've had more compliments about how well he look this year than ever before too.

 

[maggiesmum]

As I said before, anything the horse does not use is harmlessly excreted.

Which is fine if theres too much of something but what about when that mineral is blocking uptake something else, then theres a deficiency problem.

I agree its a very difficult situation, far too many people buy something because of the marketing hype rather than because its right for their horse and lots of people i've come across really have no idea whats in their feed bag or the reason they're feeding it!
For me I just feel that balancers are horrendously expensive and very unnecessary.