Feed Companies - why the lack of information on ingredients and nutritional info?

Scarlett

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Just reading the various feeding threads on here and it's got me wondering.

So many people now are more aware of what they are feeding, especially with the seeming rise in barefoot horses, gastric ulcers, Cushings etc, so why do we still have such a lack of information from the feed companies on whats in their feeds and the nutritional values.

I enquired about a 'low starch' feed a few years ago after starting my horse on it and him going through the roof, it had 28% starch content, the highest in their range.

When looking to change my horse - barefoot, ulcer symtom, lazy TB - feed recently it was a nightmare. Some feeds I looked at didnt even have the ingredients listed online, nevermind the sugar and starch content. I had to contact the companies and ask them specifically, yet the fibre/oil and vit/mineral content is on every manufacturers website.

Are the companies really hiding the important details on purpose? Or are the majority of people still ignorant to what they feed and why, thus giving the feed companies no reason to be honest?
 

TwoStroke

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My cynical side says that it's because they cottoned on to the fact they could fill a bag full of crap ingredients made palatable with sugar and we'd all pay through the nose for it.
 

Archiepoo

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yes theyve twigged were all not as stupid as they thought and are trying their best to hide the fact a lot of the feed theyre selling is no better than sweepings off the floor!!!
 

Oberon

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When you question them about the sugar and starch - some companies can be rather defensive too :eek:.

Thunderbrook feeds and Readigrass have also consistently refused to divulge their nutritional specs to enquiries :eek:

We have sleepwalked into this situation where we've trusted the feed companies too much. Now - with the focus on diet coming from research in hooves and ulcers, we are asking more questions....and some companies appear reluctant to share.

I get quite a few pms from people asking me to evaluate the horse's diet and it's really frustrating when there's none/patchy info on the websites :mad:
 

chestnut cob

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I've never had problems finding out what is in a feed. My previous horse was allergic/ intolerant to alfalfa so I spent ages with the local feed merchant going through every bag of feed they had in stock, checking the labels to check the ingredients and the nutritional breakdown. My conclusion was that D&H Safe & Sound seems to be the only product out there which does not contain alfalfa...
 

Scarlett

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I've never had problems finding out what is in a feed. My previous horse was allergic/ intolerant to alfalfa so I spent ages with the local feed merchant going through every bag of feed they had in stock, checking the labels to check the ingredients and the nutritional breakdown. My conclusion was that D&H Safe & Sound seems to be the only product out there which does not contain alfalfa...

Yes, actually physically looking at the bags - or more specifically the white label - is a good way, my issue is the lack of detailed info on websites in particular. On the D&H website there is no ingredients list for Safe & Sound for instance (though there is a sugar and starch figure, thankfully!). Why is that?
 

chestnut cob

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Yes, actually physically looking at the bags - or more specifically the white label - is a good way, my issue is the lack of detailed info on websites in particular. On the D&H website there is no ingredients list for Safe & Sound for instance (though there is a sugar and starch figure, thankfully!). Why is that?

I don't know but if you have time to spend in your local feed merchant's store, the ingredients for S&S are on the bag. I only know this because I went through them all looking for one without alfalfa.

Just googled "dodson horrell safe sound ingredients": http://www.bow-wow-pets.co.uk/horse-chaff/dodson-and-horrell-safe-and-sound.html so it is molassed but it doesn't smell or feel like a molassed feed at all. It doesn't smell sweet or feel sticky/sugary.
 

Scarlett

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I don't know but if you have time to spend in your local feed merchant's store, the ingredients for S&S are on the bag. I only know this because I went through them all looking for one without alfalfa.

Just googled "dodson horrell safe sound ingredients": http://www.bow-wow-pets.co.uk/horse-chaff/dodson-and-horrell-safe-and-sound.html so it is molassed but it doesn't smell or feel like a molassed feed at all. It doesn't smell sweet or feel sticky/sugary.

Two of my local stores don't let you near the bags, you order and they bring it out to you so if buying from them you need to know what you're after... :)

Does it have pellets in it? If so that's probably what the molasses is in.

IMO every feed company should have ingredients and a full nutritional breakdown on their websites in an easily understandable fashion. I don't think it's good enough, personally, to have to Google it and find it on another site.

On another note I can add S&S to my list of things I could buy if my local shop runs out of my usual chaff. Thanks! :)
 

chestnut cob

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Yes I do agree that manufacturers should list the full ingredients on their own websites and not really sure why they don't when it's quite freely available elsewhere online and on the bags.

Countrywide are pretty good for feeds because all of their stuff is out in the shop so you can go through the bags. At my local feed merchant, usually you can't get to the feeds as they're stored in big containers but I went in asking for advice. I told them the horse was allergic (comes out in hives badly) to alfalfa so what could they recommend / could we check the bags and they were fine with that.

ETA - yes, S&S does have pellets in. It's generally a much nicer feed than Happy Hoof, which cost me more but looks and smells poor quality.
 

lachlanandmarcus

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I have taken this up with dengie previously, they tried to claim they 'weren't allowed' to list the starch and sugar levels on the bag due to labelling regulations, I pointed out other companies did !! apparently they are breaking the rules....:-/

Kept going at it esp as there was more info on the website than they chose to put on the bag, I explained I was particularly concerned about the lami approved range as peeps really did need to be given all this info but got nowhere really although my contact was pleasant.

Voted with my feet as far as my lami girl is concerned.

My suspicion was that because the feeds in some cases aren't that low starch/sugar despite being lami trust approved, they don't want to put the figures on as then people will compare and buy the lower figure one, which won't be the one they want to sell, they want people to buy based on the marketing and lami trust approved badge alone.

I wasn't impressed. If the rules don't allow them to do it how come some do. And anyway, if the rules say that, the rules should be changed and I don't see them doing much about it.
 

amandap

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Just reading the various feeding threads on here and it's got me wondering.

So many people now are more aware of what they are feeding, especially with the seeming rise in barefoot horses, gastric ulcers, Cushings etc, so why do we still have such a lack of information from the feed companies on whats in their feeds and the nutritional values.
I agree. It isn't good enough imo. Ingredients and nutritional breakdown should be on all websites etc. Ok there will be slight variation in batches but even so sugar/starch content is vital for those with metabolic horses and ingredients are vital for those with sensitive/allergic horses.
Also true mineral levels should be given in a standard measurement so comparison is easier.

Tbh, I just can't be bothered to trawl through trying to find out and then work out comparisons. Most horses don't need anymore than a good maintenance diet anyway.
Hay, speedibeet, balancer and linseed does just fine for my lot. lol
 

TGM

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As I understand it, it is mandatory to list the ingredients of an animal compound feed on the bag, along with the protein, oil, fibre and ash content. However, bearing in mind the size and manner of stacking of horse feed bags it can be quite a difficult and physical procedure to actually access this information, particularly if you wish to compare a number of feeds.

The info manufacturers put on their website varies a lot. Baileys, for example, put on the ingredients list but no starch and sugar levels. When I requested starch/sugar levels for some of their products they were only able to give me the starch content.

Spillers seem to be good with putting the starch content on their website, but don't feel we need to know the sugar content or the ingredients. Top Spec seem to be particularly bad, with lots of 'bumpf' and 'blurb' but little real facts. They don't put ingredients on their website and wouldn't even provide me with them when requested by email!
 

amandap

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I was looking at the Top Spec site yesterday and was alarmed at their lack of information but the claims made.

Info is on the bags but it's better to go to the feed shop armed with info rather than having to look through all the bags of stuff they happen to have in stock. It's very frustrating if you need a magnifying glass to read the white labels and end up buying anything to just get something. :rolleyes: I always phone first now to check SB is in stock before I go. I've had a few wasted trips in the past.

ps. I urge anyone not enrolled to do this course. It's free btw! https://www.coursera.org/course/equinenutrition
 
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Frozen Hoof Boots

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I subscribed to a online feed analysis tool and have found it very useful to analyse the minerals and vits in comparison to other feeds & supplements.

I rang Bailey's once to find out how much selenium was in their product per cup (that they supply). She had to go away and find out.

A lot of feeds have a very high amount of Selenium in them and the information is not clear on websites or labelling.

I think that Fast Fibre has far too much Selenium and if you're feeding it as a hay replacer you're overdosing on it in larger quantities.
 

Oberon

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I don't worry about that (even though my forage's selenium is high) with Fast Fibre - Obi pees so much due to his Cushings he will pee all the selenium out :D
 

Clava

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Supplement manufacturers annoy me more, often the ingredients listed could not be more vague (if listed at all) and people are expected to pay a great deal for them.
 

NeverSayNever

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Safe and Sound is definitely NOT Alfalfa free, which I have just found out by ringing D&H. The online ingredients dont list it but the label on the bag i was about to buy does! I was shocked as the previous bag i bought didnt!! Hence I rang them for clarification and they confirmed it does contain AlfAlfa, grrr
 

TGM

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To be fair, the ingredients list for Safe & Sound found online was not actually on the D&H website, but on the site of one of their retailers. It is possible that the retailers made an error themselves, or possibly the formulation has changed and the retailers didn't realise this and did not amend the information on their site.
 

NeverSayNever

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To be fair, the ingredients list for Safe & Sound found online was not actually on the D&H website, but on the site of one of their retailers. It is possible that the retailers made an error themselves, or possibly the formulation has changed and the retailers didn't realise this and did not amend the information on their site.

very true to be fair! It would be great if all the ingredients were clearly listed on the feed companies website though wouldnt it
 

TGM

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It would indeed! Perhaps if we keep contributing to this thread then it might make the HHO top thread list in the mag and manufacturers might start taking note.
 

HaffiesRock

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I completely agree.

Gone are the olden days when people just fed anything. A lot of people now want to know what they are putting into their horses.

I was commenting on another thread last week about people over feeding horses. I was writing about how my friend feeds a completely inappropriate diet for her horse and I looked on the website to see the ingredients/nutrition and it was no where to be seen. And people wonder why their horses have problems.
 

airwolf

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I have a few empty bags of D&H Safe & Sound dating right back to 2010 and alfalfa is not mentioned as an ingredient. I did enquire of D&H about 3 years ago whether alfalfa was in Safe & Sound as I needed something which didn't contain this and they said it didn't and I wonder whether they only had the same information that is on the bags and decided no it didn't. I spoke to them today and they confirmed that alfalfa was in Safe & Sound and it was most probably in their vit & mineral pellet. I have asked customer services to find out how long alfalfa has been contained and am waiting for them to get back to me.
 

NeverSayNever

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I have a few empty bags of D&H Safe & Sound dating right back to 2010 and alfalfa is not mentioned as an ingredient. I did enquire of D&H about 3 years ago whether alfalfa was in Safe & Sound as I needed something which didn't contain this and they said it didn't and I wonder whether they only had the same information that is on the bags and decided no it didn't. I spoke to them today and they confirmed that alfalfa was in Safe & Sound and it was most probably in their vit & mineral pellet. I have asked customer services to find out how long alfalfa has been contained and am waiting for them to get back to me.

i wonder how many people are aware of this as a quick google throws up a heap of threads on various forums with people saying it is alfalfa free.
 

Slightly Foxed

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It would indeed! Perhaps if we keep contributing to this thread then it might make the HHO top thread list in the mag and manufacturers might start taking note.

Why don't we do a Hugh F-W and Tweet the companies involved? The majority of our horses will live very nicely thank you on good quality forage with a balancer to ensure they get the right amount of vitamins and minerals. Most of us need very little compound feed.
 

Rollin

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I completely agree.

Gone are the olden days when people just fed anything. A lot of people now want to know what they are putting into their horses.

I was commenting on another thread last week about people over feeding horses. I was writing about how my friend feeds a completely inappropriate diet for her horse and I looked on the website to see the ingredients/nutrition and it was no where to be seen. And people wonder why their horses have problems.

Sorry but can't seem to do smiley faces but your post made me smile. .."people want to know what they are putting into their horses" as opposed to their kids fed on value cheval.vache burgers!!!
 

Fintan

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Hm, the reason is competition in the market. As long as some keep the costumer in a lack of information about ingredients, they can use fairy tales for to promote their "secret mixes".

But this is what the costumer does want. The costumer dont want to know about nutrition, he wants to listen to nice storys.

In the end of a day, a horse is a horse is a horse. This does mean no matter what horse, the biological function is allways the same, the digestion is the same and the basic requirement is also the same.

OK, depending on the horse and the work the horse has to do, the requirements will go up or down.

But again, the basic requirement is the same.

A horse is a forager and not a concentrator. Nearly any work that has to be done, could be done on forage or fiber.

Only anaerobic work will require sugar only because the volatile fatty acids from the digestion process of fiber cant be used in anaerobic work.

But we have to realize that also forage (Hay) does contain a good amount of sugar which would do for a high speed canter unless the horse is not in race training.
Also here there is a new study, young racehorses where trained on a forage only diet. They did well, they did as good as the others with a traditional mixed feed diet.

This goes to show, that mixed feed is absolutely overvalued and overestimatet.

A 500 KG Horse can store in his body about 47300 gram of trigliceride, this is for aerobic work but only about 10% of this as glycogen for anaerobic work.

Most of us won`t work a horse longer then about 2 minutes in a anaerobic range if at all.

A international GP showjumping circuit is about 95% aerobic work.

Could be done on hay.

For to make a long story short, nobody needs a mixed feed.

Any feed is about fiber, fat, protein and sugar / starch. No matter what color the bag has.

If we know this we don`t need to somebody doing us canned feed.

Just stick with real horsefeed, plenty of hay, if there is a need for beetpulp, oats and oil.
With a real good balancer on top the horse will do much better and stay healthy than with any feed frm the fast food industrie.
 

weebarney

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has anyone else noticed how some topics in the horse world run parallel to things going on for humans? eg eating unsuitable foods that we dont really know whats in them, obesity, the barefoot movement...
 

Rollin

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A quote from my book on Equine Nutrition - Chapter of Common Feeding Myths.


"..as a general rule a horse or pony grazing on spring grass can take in large quantities of sugar without a problem. For example a 16hh, 500kg horse is abe to eat 12.5kg of grass a day .....this means an intake of 2.5kg of sugar."

Also "The horse evolved to live on grass and other pasture plants that are all high in sugars, and it is efficient at utlizing sugar which is broken down to glucose..."
 
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