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Jo C

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I am currently having problems feeding Patrick as he just doesn't really want to eat his feed so I have been contacting the feed companies for advice. I would like to contact as many companies as I can as I like to weigh up all the advice for myself before taking the plunge. So far I have contacted Dodson & Horrell, Dengie, Baileys, Allen & Page, Spillers and Saracen. Please could you let me know if there are any other big feed companies out there I have missed. I need to be able to get hold of this feed in Essex so that is an important consideration as to which company I choose. Any help would be great thank you!
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OK you asked for it!
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Currently on 1kg of LucieBix and 0.5kg of Purabeet from Simple Systems +Eclipse recovery and Equistro Megabase (Megabase on vets advice) the only way I can get him to eat the Simple systems feed is to add a handful of mix which kind of defeats the object.
He is an extremely laid back Connemara weighing about 500kg in good condition (score of between 2 and 3) but drops weight very easily. Has an allergy to grass and has history of stress induced and steroid induced laminitis although fortunately not had nutritional induced lami so far. Turned out on poor to average grazing for around 4 hours a day. Currently in medium work 45 mins +, 6 days a week and competes BD. Needs weight maintaining and added fizz/ energy sparkle.
I have no idea what to feed him anymore, thought SS feeds would solve my problem but he just doesn't like it and throws it around his stable in a strop (not to mention over the door if he gets a chance!). Was previously fed on Alfa A and Spillers Instant energy for years before the lami with no problems what so ever and was put back on this after the 1st lami attack again with no problems. After steroid induced attack I thought it prudent to change to a 'safer' feed.
 
Do you know I would just go back to what you were on before, it is readily available and appears to suit your horse. I sometimes think the equine feed industry is out to baffle us with science in order to prise more money out of horse owners - with ever increasing 'scientific' feeds - and you can research yourself into a corner.
If he has a tendency to stress, give him what makes him happy and you know works for him.
 
There was a posting on here recently about horses not liking the simple systems. So you aren't alone.

You've contacted the main ones and Baileys are only in Braintree, you missed Marriages which is a small firm that makes some of its own stuff in Chelmsford. Rather than get too confused and try any more, perhaps wait and see what they come back with. Personally I like the Spillers stuff and they have helped me out a couple of times with my ancient laminitic and a weight dropper.

Sometimes its best to keep to what you know suits him and not over complicate things. I hope that the companies come back to you with some good advice. Having had problems with Laminitis, have you checked the advice at www.laminitis.org - the laminitis trust, you often see their logo on spillers feeds?
 
Will be interested to hear what the different feed companies suggest.

If he was OK before on Alfa A, I would think of returning to that (partly because you know he will eat it!) - either Alfa A Lite (which is Lami Trust approved) or Alfa A Oil (which contains no molasses, but is coated with oil which will add extra calories but no soluble carbs which are lami triggers). You might find that if you feed the maximum daily amount of Alfa A Oil that might be enough to maintain weight and give sparkle.
 
What's Eclipse Recovery and Megabase?

How stressy is he? What made him susceptible to laminitis? Was it diet or stress or the injection?

Sorry for all the questios - it just makes me wonder when a horse stops eating- in my experience its usually due to discomfort which can easily be sorted out - once this is taken into consideration then they start eating again - however, having said this he may just not like the SS
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(I knew a mare who would pick out every bit of alpha from her feed and spit them to one side!)

Kate x

ETS - forgot to put my suggestion! PMSL!
Spillers Winergy would be ideal for you - it's forage based and would give him suitable levels of energy for his workload
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Have to admit I am very tempted to but if you mention laminitis and instant energy/alfa a in the same sentence everyone throws their hands up in horror as all laminitics should be fed on happy hoof etc. as they are all overweight and don't need any energy apparently. Sorry generalising a bit there but you know what I mean, it is nice to find someone with the same opinion as me, thank you.
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I would try the winergy equilibrium feeds with him (www.winergy.com). I have a hunter who got toxic laminitis last january who has been fed it and is doing really well on it. He eats it quite happily (this from a horse who the vet thought may actually be anorexic (I didn't even realise they could be!!)

The low energy version has a really good spec of vits and mins and the only reason it is not laminitis trust approved is apparently because the spec is too high for it to be fed as a total forage replacer which is apparently the measure!

I feel that the simple systems stuff is just a very well marketed high fibre, low sugar/starch diet and know a lot of people who have had palatibility issues with it.

Otherwise stick with laminitis approved stuff and a balancer eg, spillers high fibre cubes, speedibeet and hifi lite (I have one eventing off that and he looks fab!) But if he is not the best eater give the winergy a go, i haven't had anything turn its nose up at it yet!!

HTH's
 
another feed combo to try possibly is either the saracen/baileys endurance feed as even tho they are mainyl aimed at competition horses they are based on fibre and oil and I found with one of mine actually put weight/condition and stamina on better than the normal conditioning feeds or another one to try is readigrass/just grass etc with fibrebeet or alfa beet think the last two are lami trust approved and I have one that is in work for at least an hour a day 6 days a week and looks fab on it
 
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What's Eclipse Recovery and Megabase?

How stressy is he? What made him susceptible to laminitis? Was it diet or stress or the injection?

Sorry for all the questios - it just makes me wonder when a horse stops eating- in my experience its usually due to discomfort which can easily be sorted out - once this is taken into consideration then they start eating again - however, having said this he may just not like the SS
blush.gif
(I knew a mare who would pick out every bit of alpha from her feed and spit them to one side!)

Kate x

ETS - forgot to put my suggestion! PMSL!
Spillers Winergy would be ideal for you - it's forage based and would give him suitable levels of energy for his workload
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Eclipse recovery - A tonic feed based on fermented wild flower meadow forages from Austria, with horseradish. High in naturally occurring minerals and metabolites of microbial fermentation. Appears to act as a boost to the immune system and aids recovery from viral infection. Used for horses following a hard season, recovering from infection or just needing a boost. Does not contain yeast. One 5kg pack is used as a course.
Equistro Megabase is a broad spectrum vit and min supplement basically.
The stress lami was brought on by a bone infection in the splint bone which was treated with antibiotics unsuccessfully and subsequently had to be removed surgically. The steroid induced was brought on by steroid tablets given for his grass allergy which was casuing breathing problems.
He is not particularly stressy more nosey and just has no interest in his feed, if you put it in, it is quite common for him to ignore it completely and just watch everyone else eat but he doesn't stress over it just isn't interested. I think he jut doesn't like the SS feeds as he also won't eat things such as happy hoof either but has no problem eating Alfa A for example (that must be the molasses, having said that I have in the past added molasses to try and get him to eat and he ignored that too!)
Think thats answered the questions, I will look into Winergy thank you!
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I was warned by my vet not to use the Readigrass as apparently it can trigger lami but I will look into the other suggestions thank you.
 
Is the grass allergy only related to fresh grass or other grass products? Only I think some of the Winergy range contain grass nuts.
 
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Is the grass allergy only related to fresh grass or other grass products? Only I think some of the Winergy range contain grass nuts.

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As far as I know he is allergic to rye and sorrel grass, my vet seems to think it is the pollen only however this hasn't been proven either way yet. As it results in a respiratory problem I would guess he is right. I'm not entirely sure it is worth the risk though as if the respiratory problem comes back we have no way of treating it. Thank you for pointing that out - prob best to stay clear I think.
 
I feed H hifi lite spillers fibre cubes and our own liquid balancer - it gives her more than enough energy - if I wanted to increase her energy I'd move onto alpha oil. Go back to basics on something he likes
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Kate x
 
Hi there, i'm new to this forum. Hope you don't mind me putting my 2pworth in.

I put my wee man on to SS about a year ago, lucie stalks, total eclipse. This was fine to stabalise his weight and temprement, however he wasn't a huge fan so took ages to eat his feed and often wasted it. I also found I had to feed him a large quantity's when he was in heavier work. turning point was that his weight started dropping off a wee bit towards the end of last summer, so had a rethink, he is now on greengold, purabeet & top spec leisure as a balancer instead of the total eclipse - he's really thriving on it, lovely weight & energy, Also loving it, bucket licked clean, then thrown around the stable!
 
basically just dust extracted lucerne chop, along the same lines as simple systems, they stock it, but it's more readily available as ss don't actually make it. our local place stocks it for 5.50 per bag - our slightly dearer but more local place is 6.50 per bag, but our simple systems dealer is 7.90 per bag!! ouch - she'll be out of business soon!.

Green Gold

A discerning Scot makes this lucerne chop from his very best dried lucerne. Different soils result in a slightly different nutrient profile. Selenium and iron are higher, so this chop is particularly appropriate for horses in hard work, although its low sugar content means safe for natives and laminitics.

PS, although it's dust extracted, i still find it a wee bit dusty as there is no molasses whatsoever. I always dampen my feedswith a wee bit water so it's fine.


also point worth noting that purabeet is unmolassed beet containing about 5% naturally occuring sugar. exactly same as unmolassed speedibeet if you are disorganised or can't get simple systems in your area.

F x
 
wow, you sound like my twin! My boy was also on alfa A and instant energy before getting stress lami, have since reworked his diet to avoid starch (instant energy is fairly high in it) and although his wasnt nutrition related I've been told his old feed could trigger a new attack. He's a bad doer, and fairly laid back, so I really struggled to find food that would give him everything he needs. I've now found the right balance - I use Alfa Oil as its high in oil which keeps weight on and gives him energy, in summer if he keeps his weight on better I can swap this to Alfa Lite, either way avoid Alfa A as its mollassed (evil!). His mix has been replaced by copra meal, which again is high oil and maintains weight, gives energy and high protein so great for his muscles. I have recently swapped the third part of his diet, originally speedibeet onto alfabeet, as he is still a little ribby, and it bulks out his feed. Ontop of this he has topspec balancer and cortaflex, and adlib hay. He still has enough energy (just about) to prevent me going back onto energy mixes, and he's maintaining weight fairly well. However if your boy is fairly fussy he may not like the copra meal - mine will eat anything! I've also heard saracens equi jewel is meant to be good!
 
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wow, you sound like my twin! My boy was also on alfa A and instant energy before getting stress lami, have since reworked his diet to avoid starch (instant energy is fairly high in it) and although his wasnt nutrition related I've been told his old feed could trigger a new attack. He's a bad doer, and fairly laid back, so I really struggled to find food that would give him everything he needs. I've now found the right balance - I use Alfa Oil as its high in oil which keeps weight on and gives him energy, in summer if he keeps his weight on better I can swap this to Alfa Lite, either way avoid Alfa A as its mollassed (evil!). His mix has been replaced by copra meal, which again is high oil and maintains weight, gives energy and high protein so great for his muscles. I have recently swapped the third part of his diet, originally speedibeet onto alfabeet, as he is still a little ribby, and it bulks out his feed. Ontop of this he has topspec balancer and cortaflex, and adlib hay. He still has enough energy (just about) to prevent me going back onto energy mixes, and he's maintaining weight fairly well. However if your boy is fairly fussy he may not like the copra meal - mine will eat anything! I've also heard saracens equi jewel is meant to be good!

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Gosh another one of me out there! I didn't think there would be another horse in existance like Patrick!
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Your diet does sound good but he is such a fussy monster - wouldn't even eat a horse treat last night as he thought I was trying to poison him - I don't really want to buy feed he is unlikely to eat.
 
try John Chapman at Gravenhorse Feeds. He has a small feed company and makes his own feed, he is an Equine Nutritionist and gives sound advice. He is based in Beds so not far from you


www,gravenhorse.co.uk

Mark
 
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