Feed Guru's... Suggestions Please?

[ExpressPrincess]

Help needed with my mare with a tendency to be hyper / stressy, currently jumping BSJC but now starting BE80 and heading to BE90 so needs that extra feed but no omph required! However i need to keep conditioning as want to do ex racers showing over the summer (Hack type).

Currently feeding 2 feeds a day each containing

TopSpec Senior (as includes 10g glucosamine) - 250g (1 mug full)
Charnwood Mills Micronised linseed - 400g (2 mugs full)
Dengie Alfa A Oil - 200g (half a stubbs scoop)
Speedibeet - 500g (3/4 a stubbs scoop)
1 scoop Equine America Magnitude
200mls real camomile tea
10mls Corn Oil
10mls vegetable (Rapeseed) Oil

This makes up about 3/4 a 14L tyre bucket so thinking I could possibly be over feeding?

Adlib hay but only eats 3-4 sections (about 1/3 of a bale - home grown mixed species) plus about 10 carrots.

Ive been to tack shop but their only suggestion was a build-up supplement made with Skimmed milk powder and lard which I would need to spend nearly £60 a month on to feed at recommended rate!

I was thinking of trying a rice bran (Equijewel) or coconut (Copra) based product to complement her current diet taking out the equivalent in linseed or would people suggest adding something like brewer’s yeast / pink powder to increase absorption of what I’m already feeding - dont want to waste anymore money.

I feel like I am quite an experienced person when it comes to feeding but im feeling pretty stumped with this one!

PS have tried lots of mixes and I don’t want to go down that road… Would like to stick with the diet I have just make some adjustments.

Here are some pictures of her as you can see she is in average TB condition lacking top line and needs more rib covering as can see them when she strides out…

 

[JenHunt]

I'd say:
cut out 10ml of the 2 oils - they'll be making little or no difference.... though if you meant 100ml, then you are bordering on coating the gut with oil and undoing your hard work....

I'd also say to increase your linseed. I assume you're feeding full fat linseed meal (about 20% fat). Our two boys get half a stubbs scoop of linseed meal each for hunting...

I'd also increased your alfa oil - double it even.

You don't say whether you give one feed or two, but I'd suggest that with the amount of fibre you'd be feeding that you'd be fine to give it in one feed if she's not a gobbler (and IME most TB's aren't!). otherwise split it down into two or more feeds.

The other thing to try is to feed an entire tubtrug full of soaked sugar beet. I know, I know, it sounds a lot, but honestly, once they get over the novelty of it they settle down to pick at that and their hay over night and end up consuming more calories as fibre than they would otherwise.

she looks well to me, but as you say could perhaps do with a bit more topline and rib covering, but the fitness work you'd be doing for eventing will help.

 

[Scarlett]

I'd definitely cut out the oil and try the rice bran. I feed it to my tbs, and have done in one form or another for a while and on many different horses.

Equi-jewel sent mine loopy but I had good results with Omega Rice which is rice bran and linseed and have recently swapped to KeyFlow KeyPlus which is working a treat. My horses are holding weight, gaining muscle and have just the right amount of energy.

I'd up the Alfa A Oil to a scoop each feed and feed that with beet, rice bran, linseed and a vit supp. Keep it simple.

I tried Copra, they weren't to keen and I found it messy.

Maybe offer something like Readigrass in a bucket over night?

 

[tryinghard]

What a lovely horse

I think the Alfa A, beet and linseed are all good - but you could feed MUCH more alfa a - maybe 4/5 stubbs scoops a day split over 2/3 feeds if you can.

Also, as she is an ex-racer have you considered that she may have gastric ulcers?

 

[ExpressPrincess]

Thank you everyone!!! Glad to hear im not a total moron!

Oil wise i put it in a tubtrug with a scoop of unsoaked sugarbeet which makes up 3 days worth of soaked feed so hard to know how much i feed exactly but i put about 50mls of each in the bucket so unlikely to be much more than 10mls total just to increase the callorie element really.

Linseed is the full fat 20% stuff works out to about 2/3 a stubbs scoop daily so can make that up a bit but very powdery.

What would you think to 2 small feeds then a bucket of sugarbeet and Alfa-A over night could give her that about 8pm? Has last feed at about 5pm usually. Is out all day with other horses so cant have a feed in the middle of the day.

Also quite worried about portion sizes as she is only 15hh so conscious of feeding too much at once and getting push though.

Also, as she is an ex-racer have you considered that she may have gastric ulcers?

Thank you, yes she was an ex racer but finished as a 2 year old after 3 races went to stud and was out 24/7 as a broodmare until 5 when I brought her she is now 8 in 2 weeks (officially 8 already) so unlikely to have ulcers but not impossible – like most ex racer owners I do keep that thought in the back of my mind though

Will have a look at the KeyFlow and KeyPlus as think just a cup of something else do the trick plus grass is on its way so hopefully full out the gut more.

 

[HazyXmas]

Just a thought.

Why do you soak 3 days worth of Speedi-beet? It only takes 5 mins with warm water & i would be very worried that it would be starting to ferment. I do mine fresh every mealtime & throw away any that i don't use.

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

I would keep the alfalfa and use Lifeforce Elite - you could lose all the other supplements oils etc

 

[Goldenstar]

I'd say:
cut out 10ml of the 2 oils - they'll be making little or no difference.... though if you meant 100ml, then you are bordering on coating the gut with oil and undoing your hard work....

I'd also say to increase your linseed. I assume you're feeding full fat linseed meal (about 20% fat). Our two boys get half a stubbs scoop of linseed meal each for hunting...

I'd also increased your alfa oil - double it even.

You don't say whether you give one feed or two, but I'd suggest that with the amount of fibre you'd be feeding that you'd be fine to give it in one feed if she's not a gobbler (and IME most TB's aren't!). otherwise split it down into two or more feeds.

The other thing to try is to feed an entire tubtrug full of soaked sugar beet. I know, I know, it sounds a lot, but honestly, once they get over the novelty of it they settle down to pick at that and their hay over night and end up consuming more calories as fibre than they would otherwise.

she looks well to me, but as you say could perhaps do with a bit more topline and rib covering, but the fitness work you'd be doing for eventing will help.

Linseed is 35% oil

 

[ExpressPrincess]

Linseed is 35% oil

Your right but i was refering to protein the one i feed is

Protein 23.00%
Oil 35.00%

Sorry for any confusion.

I will start soaking my sugar beet daily just is case i used to feed Purabeet so was just easier to do a batch, think its unlikely to ferment this time of year - it was frozen solid this am and i dont feed it in the summer.

 

[Overgrown Pony]

Just a wee note as you mentioned Equijewel.

I did a comparison of the high oil supplements Equijewel, Outshine and Sumo (Rowan & Barbary).

Sumo came out as best all round. It's got the highest MJ/kg, highest oil, very low starch and works out the cheapest to feed per day (worked out half that of the other 2).

If you're going to try it introduce it slowly to get your horse used to it as it's quite a strong smell and flavour.

 

[Puppy]

I would switch the hay for haylage.

 

[JHC]

The other thing to try is to feed an entire tubtrug full of soaked sugar beet. I know, I know, it sounds a lot, but honestly, once they get over the novelty of it they settle down to pick at that and their hay over night and end up consuming more calories as fibre than they would otherwise.

I thought of doing this with my poor doer... But I was a little worried about colic etc... Do you feed it over night by starting with a small amount then upping the amount as they get used to it?

 

[JenHunt]

Thank you everyone!!! Glad to hear im not a total moron!

What would you think to 2 small feeds then a bucket of sugarbeet and Alfa-A over night could give her that about 8pm? Has last feed at about 5pm usually. Is out all day with other horses so cant have a feed in the middle of the day.

Also quite worried about portion sizes as she is only 15hh so conscious of feeding too much at once and getting push though.
.

1) not a moron at all!! always better to check and ask questions IMO!
2) yes, that sounds perfect re the bucket at 8pm!
3) linseed plus some of the chaff, plus supplements and a blob of sugarbeet to hold it together shouldn't come to toooo much for one meal really... try measuring out the linssed and supplements and add just enough of the chaff and sugarbeet until you are happy that it sort of stays together (so she can't ignore bits!) and is a sensible size!

I thought of doing this with my poor doer... But I was a little worried about colic etc... Do you feed it over night by starting with a small amount then upping the amount as they get used to it?

up to you really.... if you are feeding unmolassed sugarbeet or alfabeet then I was told that it's fine to just add the bucket at a fair amount as long as they've previously been getting it in their rations. BUT... if you are concerned then there's certainly no harm at all in introducing it gradually!

 

[Fintan]

You shoud stick with the hay. The easiest reason is, haylage is more acidic then hay, PH value about 4.5 and hay is neutral about 7.

This is doing in the long term damage to the teath (not kidding) and it will provoce the stomach. The horse has to buffer gastric acid permanently by the chewing process (saliva production) and it is not beneficial to feed something with a bigger acid content than neccessary.

As well the haylage has a higher content of moisture (about 20% higher than hay) and with this the horse will chew less and buffer less gastric acid.

Due to the fermentation process in the haylage there will be a bigger content of histamin in the haylage.
This can provoce allergic reactions, think about antihistamine.

Some horses will gain some weight on haylage, the only reason for this is the relative higher content of protein in relation to digestible energie.

It is looking nice but it will keep the liver and the kidneys busy, this is not beneficial at all.

In the end of the day, 90 cm jumping is not really work it is only light exercise.
This can easy be done on a forage based diet.

If your hay is low on protein, feed 1 kg of beetpulp (dry weight) and add on some soybean meal.
If you stir in about 300 to 400 gram of soybean meal (49%) this is pretty much enough.

Consider in you have a thoroughbred and not a draught horse. By the nature, most of them won`t be bulky, there not bred for this.

Don`t forget a really propper balancer, this is a part of the game. Traceelements (like zinc) and Vitamins are necessary for the production of digestive enzymes and with this for the uptake of digestible energy.

If you have a malnutrition here, you can feed what you want, you wont come close to the target.

 

[ExpressPrincess]

You shoud stick with the hay.

Glad someone thinks this as we grown our own and have about 300 bales left to use!

Don`t forget a really propper balancer, this is a part of the game. Traceelements (like zinc) and Vitamins are necessary for the production of digestive enzymes and with this for the uptake of digestible energy.

If you have a malnutrition here, you can feed what you want, you wont come close to the target.

I feed TopSpec senior which is pretty much their comprehensive balancer with the addition of 10g glucosamine per 500g of feed so i feel is unlikely to be a driving factor.

 

[Fintan]

I don`t have a crystal ball.

The very best would be to spend a couple of pounds and get the hay testet.

This will save you lots of trouble and give you the right direction for how to top up.

You should test for digestible energy MJ DE, fat, sugar, digestible protein, calcium, phosphorous, magnesium.

As well for zinc, copper, iron, manganese for to get a basic overview.

With yourè balancer I can`t tell you, for me it is only a name but I don`t know from this end of the world what is in and what is missing in your hay.

So I can`t tell you what to top up.

As well I don`t beleive in any balancers that supply someting else than vitamins and traceminerals because this supply has to be fully independend from energy, no matter if protein or what else.

Here is a lab that can do it for you in UK

http://www.sciantec.uk.com/

It is not really expensive. Specially not when you have 300 bales left, this will save you trouble.