Feed ?

[sasquatch]

So I probably sound a bit silly, I've done my Stage 1 and everything else I'm just a bit confused

Moved my 15hh cob type gelding to a new yard.
Previous yard his feed was covered and provided for him, and at his new yard I have to provide feed for him.

He's quite a high energy horse on his own. Over summer when all he ate was grass he did slow down a little bit, but still had enough energy for at least an hours hard work in the heat 5-6 days a week. When he's stabled all winter he either needs exercise every other day or at least some turn out during the week

Before he was fed mollichaff and occasionally a handful of cool mix if he needed it. At the new yard I can get up to see him and ride him every day whilst previous yard I could only get up during the weekends and he's going to be doing more competing.

He only moved on Tuesday, so I'm keeping him stabled until he gets into the new routine and settles down. Probably should be on turn out, I just want to make sure he's happy and feeling confident before he goes in a field with new horses!

Anyway, so far he's been getting a morning net and breakfast feed, then I come up and ride around lunch time, and give him an evening/dinner net between half 3 - 5.

For his morning feed he gets a scoop of mollichaff as I don't see the need for any cool mix yet. However I'm getting really confused as to how much to give him as the scoop I have has measurements for 'half scoop' etc on the side, yet one feed company recommends his feed in lbs and another in cups!

when his feed was done before, it was in handfuls and lbs because he didn't need much at all.

so a bit confused as to what he should be getting, in turns of 'scoops'

for him and his needs atm, a scoop of mollichaff seems to be fine but when I need to increase feeds I'm a bit confused as to how to measure it as everywhere seems to use a different way!

also, for a 15hh energetic good-dooer type, does his feeding sound okay?
I know you should always adjust feed as it seems fit. I do worry he's maybe not getting enough but he does have a bit of weight to loose and hopefully he will start his summer turnout at the new place within the next few days.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I am not familiar with Mollichaff as such, there are several varietes, they come with " a low sugar spray", does that mean lower than 5% or lower than 50%? I am of the opinion that no added sugar is best for horses.
A chaff I know about is Dengie non molassed, I find it is palatable and has no added molasses/moglo. In order to provide sufficient daily minerals I would rather feed minerals, [1 or2 mineral scoops 25 to 45gms] per day as the manufacturer recommends., but you need a carrier such as chaff, because straight minerals are too concentrated to be palatable. They are a powder.
I know it is easier to feed one thing eg Mollichaff, but I don;t really think it is the complete feed for most horses. In some cases in order do to feed enough minerals per day you need to feed 2.5kgs of chaff............ which is expensive.
You can buy cheap scales in Morissons, a luggage scale will be fine for haynets, and a cooking scale for feed. You can buy a pet scoop in Morissons or a proper feed scoop in local feed store, either way you need to find out how much you are feeding by using scales.
In the pony world we talk about Stubbs Scoops, which are big, pet scoops which are small and mineral scoops which are tiny, but when it comes down to it, you need to know how much each ingredient weighs.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Get two /three months supply of "original" minerals from Feedmark/Equimins or a mineral summer balancer from pro earth, they are all good value.
I think a small feed for a horse [assuming you are feeding him twice a day when stabled, is approx two good pets scoops or one stubbs scoop, again you need to weigh ingredients. Damp your chaff to prevent choking.
Once you have got him in to a routine you can think again if he needs more energy, but to be honest when yoiu first get a horse it is better to keep him in "low Energy" mode rather than stuffing full of grub. He won't starve. Most important thing is that he has access to forage most of the day and night.
There should be someone to ask at the yard, maybe the Yard Owner/yard Manager.

 

[sasquatch]

I am not familiar with Mollichaff as such, there are several varietes, they come with " a low sugar spray", does that mean lower than 5% or lower than 50%? I am of the opinion that no added sugar is best for horses.
A chaff I know about is Dengie non molassed, I find it is palatable and has no added molasses/moglo. In order to provide sufficient daily minerals I would rather feed minerals, [1 or2 mineral scoops 25 to 45gms] per day as the manufacturer recommends., but you need a carrier such as chaff, because straight minerals are too concentrated to be palatable. They are a powder.
I know it is easier to feed one thing eg Mollichaff, but I don;t really think it is the complete feed for most horses. In some cases in order do to feed enough minerals per day you need to feed 2.5kgs of chaff............ which is expensive.
You can buy cheap scales in Morissons, a luggage scale will be fine for haynets, and a cooking scale for feed. You can buy a pet scoop in Morissons or a proper feed scoop in local feed store, either way you need to find out how much you are feeding by using scales.
In the pony world we talk about Stubbs Scoops, which are big, pet scoops which are small and mineral scoops which are tiny, but when it comes down to it, you need to know how much each ingredient weighs.

Get two /three months supply of "original" minerals from Feedmark/Equimins or a mineral summer balancer from pro earth, they are all good value.
I think a small feed for a horse [assuming you are feeding him twice a day when stabled, is approx two good pets scoops or one stubbs scoop, again you need to weigh ingredients. Damp your chaff to prevent choking.
Once you have got him in to a routine you can think again if he needs more energy, but to be honest when yoiu first get a horse it is better to keep him in "low Energy" mode rather than stuffing full of grub. He won't starve. Most important thing is that he has access to forage most of the day and night.
There should be someone to ask at the yard, maybe the Yard Owner/yard Manager.

I checked when I went up today, I have a Stubbs Scoop! It has 1/4 1/2 and 3/4 measures on the side, so I'm now assuming that that's a measurement in terms of lb.

I've actually had my horse 3 years - he was on working livery at his old yard and it included his feed. He only gets the most basic mollichaff as it's what he was fed before (same for the cool mix) and atm he gets 2 nets and one hard feed, which is what he also got at previous yard. He does have a mineral lick, however he's in absolute perfect health and condition apart from being a bit tubby so I'm not to0 worried about adding mineral supplements as of yet.

He really is a good-doer, doesn't need much for energy at all which was why he only got mollichaff and occasionally a little bit of cool mix depending on the work he was in.

am just going to have to see how it works out as I go along I guess. I take it the markers on my scoop for 1/4, 1/2 etc are to do with lbs or am I going up the wrong tree?

 

[be positive]

The markers are not relating to weight as feed weight varies, a scoop of chaff is much lighter than a scoop of mix for example, if you want to find out how much you are feeding by weight you will need to use scales to weigh each type of feed.

I would not get hung up at this stage on the feed situation, get him out as soon as you can, he should settle better if he can go out rather than being shut in and sometimes the longer you leave it the worse they will be once they get out.

Longer term, looking to winter when he may be in more, most of his needs will be provided by having access to hay or grass at all times with a small feed to carry any supplements which provide his vitamins and minerals, mollichaff is not the best as it is very highly mollassed, does not provide much more than a sugary token feed, you would be better feeding something unmollassed with a vit/ min supplement if he doesn't require much additional weight or energy.

 

[sasquatch]

The markers are not relating to weight as feed weight varies, a scoop of chaff is much lighter than a scoop of mix for example, if you want to find out how much you are feeding by weight you will need to use scales to weigh each type of feed.

I would not get hung up at this stage on the feed situation, get him out as soon as you can, he should settle better if he can go out rather than being shut in and sometimes the longer you leave it the worse they will be once they get out.

Longer term, looking to winter when he may be in more, most of his needs will be provided by having access to hay or grass at all times with a small feed to carry any supplements which provide his vitamins and minerals, mollichaff is not the best as it is very highly mollassed, does not provide much more than a sugary token feed, you would be better feeding something unmollassed with a vit/ min supplement if he doesn't require much additional weight or energy.

my reason for keeping him on mollichaff is it's what he's used to and not had any problems with for the past 4/5 years. depending on his behavior, his feed can always be adjusted/changed as it needs to be especially over winter and I can take it as it comes.

hopefully I'll get him out tomorrow, he seemed to be stumbling today when I rode and there was a bit of heat in the leg he was stumbling on. fingers crossed he's not lame!

 

[Shay]

The Stubbs scoop is a "standard" so if you tell a feed professional that you feed 1/2 a scoop they will know which scoop you mean. Otherwise it could be 1/2 a scoop of anything! To find out that each 1/2 or 1/4 or whatever actually weighs you meed to measure it out and then weigh it separately. The only reason really to do this would be to check you are feeding to manufacturers spec so the Vits & mins are balanced - but you will also recall from your Stage 1 that chart you had to learn about the percentage of horse's body weight in forage, concentrates etc which is all worked out by weight.

Don't get too hung up on feeds - it tends to be easier and less complex than you think. Stick with what you have and see how he goes.

 

[Tnavas]

It's great that you are asking about how and what to feed as the feed companies are great at brainwashing customers with all the pretty bags.

A suggestion for you, sign up to participate in the Equine Nutrition course with Coursera and Edinburgh University. It's free, run online, usually in January, this is the link
https://www.coursera.org/course/equinenutrition

A multi mineral block will suffice while he doesn't need hard feed. I leave mine in the paddock as she lives out 24/7, you could have one in the stable and paddock.

The best way to work out what your scoop holds is to either take the kitchen scales to the paddock or take several plastic bags there, place the amount you feed of each food into separate bags, then take home and weigh.

Fibre is the most important food that you need to feed your horse second only to water. Always add chaff to grains or pelleted feeds to help open the mix, this helps slow eating, and digestion.

If your grazing is OK you may not need to feed at all, just hay when stabled

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

my reason for keeping him on mollichaff is it's what he's used to and not had any problems with for the past 4/5 years. depending on his behavior, his feed can always be adjusted/changed as it needs to be especially over winter and I can take it as it comes.

hopefully I'll get him out tomorrow, he seemed to be stumbling today when I rode and there was a bit of heat in the leg he was stumbling on. fingers crossed he's not lame!

Ask someone to look at his leg, it should not have heat in it and he should not be stumbling.
When was he shod?

 

[sasquatch]

It's great that you are asking about how and what to feed as the feed companies are great at brainwashing customers with all the pretty bags.

A suggestion for you, sign up to participate in the Equine Nutrition course with Coursera and Edinburgh University. It's free, run online, usually in January, this is the link
https://www.coursera.org/course/equinenutrition

A multi mineral block will suffice while he doesn't need hard feed. I leave mine in the paddock as she lives out 24/7, you could have one in the stable and paddock.

The best way to work out what your scoop holds is to either take the kitchen scales to the paddock or take several plastic bags there, place the amount you feed of each food into separate bags, then take home and weigh.

Fibre is the most important food that you need to feed your horse second only to water. Always add chaff to grains or pelleted feeds to help open the mix, this helps slow eating, and digestion.

If your grazing is OK you may not need to feed at all, just hay when stabled

I will look into the course, although january I may have modules so I'll have to see what my workload is like!

Between the BHS guidelines, what the 2 different bags from different companies say, and what the feed companies and 'experts' the companies employ say it's all very confusing. I think I'll re-read feeding in my Stage 1 book (and also see what the Stage 2 book says as I'll need to learn that too)

It might be easier to take the scales down and make a chart I can pin on the wall so I have something to refer to if I need to. Atm he's out at grass and only coming in for 2-3 hours now his turnout is sorted so he'll only need a net if he's in for more than a few hours.

I think I'll stick with the mollichaff when he comes in in september, and if he needs any changes for his energy requirements then I can work with it as it comes

Do the Himalayan salt licks work as a mineral block, or will I have to look for another one? I know they help with electrolytes and hydration and he is a very well hydrated horse.

thank you though, very helpful.

Ask someone to look at his leg, it should not have heat in it and he should not be stumbling.
When was he shod?

he was shod 2 weeks ago. It might just be the new surface or him not picking his feet up. I've kept an eye on his leg and the next day there was no heat and he's been fine since I noticed it.

I'm going to keep an eye on him anyway, but he's turned out now and managing fine

 

[chestnut cob]

Something to bear mind os that if he was on working livery before he was more than likely getting more work than you alone will give him. Honestly if he's a good doer (you said he is) and prob doing less work now I wouldn't feed anything at all for now. If his workload has decreased but he's still getting hard feed then you could end up with a rather fizzy horse on your hands!

Fwiw my 15hh native (Connie x cob maybe) is eventing on 24/7 turnout on not much grass at all because despite working 6 days per work, proper hard (for this level) schooling sessions, long intensive hacks with hill work and jumping, he is still putting weight on and has more than enough energy. Horses often need surprisingly little hard feed as long as they've got ample forage.

 

[sasquatch]

Something to bear mind os that if he was on working livery before he was more than likely getting more work than you alone will give him. Honestly if he's a good doer (you said he is) and prob doing less work now I wouldn't feed anything at all for now. If his workload has decreased but he's still getting hard feed then you could end up with a rather fizzy horse on your hands!

Fwiw my 15hh native (Connie x cob maybe) is eventing on 24/7 turnout on not much grass at all because despite working 6 days per work, proper hard (for this level) schooling sessions, long intensive hacks with hill work and jumping, he is still putting weight on and has more than enough energy. Horses often need surprisingly little hard feed as long as they've got ample forage.

He was on "working livery" in that he only did one lesson a week, with me! He occasionally did another lesson, but it was a very rare occasion and he wasn't used in daily lessons, if I was lucky he'd maybe be out once every other week or once a month.

So the workload he has now is actually more, even if it's not much more.

 

[twiggy2]

mollichaff is like feeding kids sweets-it is not good for your horse-i think every one has said it but it is your choice to ignore the advice you have been given.
a good supplement is the basis for any horse that is not eating the suggest amount of feed that is stated on the bag.
is there anyone that you can ask for advice at your yard as you do sound like you need a bit of support from someone with more experience

 

[TGM]

You need to consider the reasons we give bucket feed in addition to grass/hay - the main ones are:

- to supply extra calories for condition/energy if this cannot be adequately be provided by grass/hay alone.

- to provide nutrients such as vitamins, minerals and protein that may be lacking from the diet

- to provide a base to which medications and supplements can be added

- as a token to keep the horse quiet whilst others are being fed

The rates on the bag are just a guide, each horse has to be fed individually according to condition, energy levels etc. If your horse is maintaining weight well on grass/hay then it is unlikely to need additional calories from bucket feed, although you might like to feed a token handful. Amounts can be increased if you notice the horse is starting to lose weight, although it is best and usually cheaper to increase the hay ration first.

You don't say what Mollichaff you are using but if it is the Original version then it is just straw sprayed with molasses and contains no extra vit/mins, so will not be adding anything extra to the diet. Most cubes and mixes are supplemented with vit/mins but have to be fed at the recommended rate to ensure the full amount is supplied (and this rate is usually significantly more than half a scoop for the average horse) and this can supply too many calories for a good doer. For this reason many people choose to feed a balancer or vit/min supplement instead to supply a wide range of micronutrients in a small amount of feed.