Feeding a young barefoot TB - forage 'fillers'

tobiano1984

tobiano1984

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My TB has just turned 4, raced as a 2 year old but now reschooled and will start competing in the Spring with the aim to do BE90 4yo events later in the year.
He's currently on Simple System, or my variation of it - Green Gold or Alfa A Unmollassed, Speedibeet or Simple System beet, SS blue bag grass nuts or grass nuts from Charnwood Milling, brewers yeast and linseed. He gets a big bucket in the morning and the evening and two massive haynets overnight. In the day he's out for about 5-7 hours depending on the weather. They have hay in the field as there's not much grass, but he seems to prefer picking around at grass shoots.

He's a great eater and will eat whatever is put in front of him. However he's still quite skinny, healthy enough but just needs to put neck and topline on! And has nothing on his ribs. Most of this will come with exercise, and I don't want to feed him any differently to the above as he's barefoot and I don't want any sugar in his diet.

What I'm wondering -I'm thinking of keeping him in for the morning and turning out a bit later, or getting in earlier, as he's not really getting enough in the field to justify being out there all day. Can anyone recommend something to feed him during this extra time in? We've got good hay but he's already having a lot. I thought about Readigrass but I think it's not very barefoot-friendly, is that right?! Just because it's rye rather than meadow grass and therefore high sugar. But I may be wrong.

I just want to bulk him up a bit before he starts serious/fast work. Any thoughts/recommendations would be great to hear. He's not got anything wrong with him and is perfectly healthy, just a bit gangly!
 
At 4, he is still maturing so will take time to fill out properly particularly if he is in work because you are using up the energy he should be using for growing to enable him to work.
Perhaps a month plus off on holiday turned out on decent grazing would help him to catch himself up but keep up the feed; none of which is particularly good for a growing TB if I'm honest. In the spring, you should notice a difference after he's had some decent Dr Green and then you can crack on with him but he needs to be able to do his growing and maturing in peace, not working off what you've given him.
 
Maesfen said:
At 4, he is still maturing so will take time to fill out properly particularly if he is in work because you are using up the energy he should be using for growing to enable him to work.
Perhaps a month plus off on holiday turned out on decent grazing would help him to catch himself up but keep up the feed; none of which is particularly good for a growing TB if I'm honest. In the spring, you should notice a difference after he's had some decent Dr Green and then you can crack on with him but he needs to be able to do his growing and maturing in peace, not working off what you've given him.
Click to expand...

He's already had 7 months of the last year just at grass and not in work, and now in winter we don't really have decent grazing so it's just hay and feed.

Interesting that you think his grass nuts, lucerne and beet aren't good for a growing TB, can you explain why? It's high protein, low sugar and from what I've gathered from others who use it for young horses it's perfect as it gives them all they need without giving too much too fast.

According to SS website:
Young horses need plenty of protein for good muscle development and calcium for strong bones, so lucerne feeds are ideal. They are not heating so will not make your youngster silly. Good bone growth is particularly important in any horse but especially in bigger horses destined for performance who will need more feeding just because of their size. Soluble carbohydrates such as sugar and starch have been associated with bone growth development issues, so this feed is also ideal as it is naturally so low in soluble carbs.

Growth spurts can take a lot out of growing youngstock and it seems they cannot grow up wards and outwards at the same time! If she is growing upwards and looking too lean, this could be the time to top up with Red Bag Grass Pellets, the equivalent of spring grass and ideal when, in late winter or early spring, the grass is just refusing to grow but your horse has other ideas!
Please see our Advice Sheet on feeding weaned foals. After the first winter, the above applies and you may need to continue feeding for growth until the pony is 3 or 4 years old, and until as much as 7 years for big, late developing Warmbloods. Generally ponies and small breeds mature quickest, but Arabs can also be long, slow developers. Feeding levels will vary according to the quality of grass and hay available but as a guide, yearlings may need 30% of their total intake in their feed bowl and older youngsters around 20%. For example a Warmblood yearling of 400kg might need 3kg per day LucieNuts/Pellets and Green Gold and 100g of Total Eclipse; a 350 kg 2 year old Arab 1.75kg.with 90g Total Eclipse.
 
he needs more grub i imagine.

ok ours is in hard work (competing adv med, training PSG) but he would wither away to nowt on that.

winergy condition, the linseed, and soaked oats would be my recommendation. None of that will hot him up or affect his feet (ours is also BF)
 
Personally wouldn't feed any beets or lucerne. Also wouldn't go solely on the recommendations of a feed company especially when those are the main ingredients of their feeds.

I've got a 2yr old (QH) and a 14yr old TB; both are barefoot and they are mainly living out with not much grazing and adlib hay.

The TB is only just starting back into work with walking so no using a lot of energy.

They are fed:
soaked grass nuts
grass chop
micronised linseed
copra/coolstance
Balancer (Pro Hoof for TB and Pro Balance for QH)
Soaked whole oats (for TB only)

There are pictures of the QH in my profile album thing on here showing his condition. The TB is actually putting on weight despite changing to, mainly, living out. He dropped a bit when the weather changed drastically but put it all back on with the addition of oats. They are only in when it's "end of the world" weather, pick at what grass there is and always have hay.

Lucerne does seem to cause problems for most BF horses. There's an undigestible carbohydrate in beet and it can upset the gut and therefore reflect in hooves.

I thought my horses were "ok" with alfalfa and beet (between the 3 of them (incl mum's horse) they were on Fast Fibre, Speedibeet and Alfabeet) but having swapped to grass nuts and chop the difference is astounding. So clearly they were not "ok".
 
TPO said:
Personally wouldn't feed any beets or lucerne. Also wouldn't go solely on the recommendations of a feed company especially when those are the main ingredients of their feeds.

I've got a 2yr old (QH) and a 14yr old TB; both are barefoot and they are mainly living out with not much grazing and adlib hay.

The TB is only just starting back into work with walking so no using a lot of energy.

They are fed:
soaked grass nuts
grass chop
micronised linseed
copra/coolstance
Balancer (Pro Hoof for TB and Pro Balance for QH)
Soaked whole oats (for TB only)

There are pictures of the QH in my profile album thing on here showing his condition. The TB is actually putting on weight despite changing to, mainly, living out. He dropped a bit when the weather changed drastically but put it all back on with the addition of oats. They are only in when it's "end of the world" weather, pick at what grass there is and always have hay.

Lucerne does seem to cause problems for most BF horses. There's an undigestible carbohydrate in beet and it can upset the gut and therefore reflect in hooves.

I thought my horses were "ok" with alfalfa and beet (between the 3 of them (incl mum's horse) they were on Fast Fibre, Speedibeet and Alfabeet) but having swapped to grass nuts and chop the difference is astounding. So clearly they were not "ok".
Click to expand...

Interesting...I've had my barefoot horses on predominantly beet and alfalfa for years, and all of them (2 TBs, a warmblood, 4 cobs and a SJ pony) have amazing feet and have never had any issues so I'm not really worried about the barefoot side of things! I've also had great results with pure lucerne putting topline on, although not so much with this TB.

I'm definitely going to give oats a go, for this young TB and also for my dressage cob who needs a bit of stamina. I struggle a bit with the ideal of Copra, although I know a few people who like to feed it, but I quite like to feed along the lines of stuff they might have come across naturally hence feeding mostly grass and lucerne but can't think of any situation in which a horse would come across coconut in any natural situation! That might just be me being a bit too literal...but then my dog is also fed a raw/natural diet so it's just the way I go about it.

I'm not drastically looking to change diets - I'm happy with all of them generally and they're a very healthy bunch, just need to get a bit more weight on this particular TB as despite having hay in the field he seems to prefer wandering around looking for blades of grass in the mud! In the summer he was absolutely fine and a good weight, and that was just being out on grass 24/7 with occasional beet/lucerne feeds when he came in.
 
I was the same re feet being fine (apart from TB but he has seperate issues not linked to barefoot) and all good weights/condition. It was only after switching away and seeing the remarkable changes that I realise that they weren't "fine"

I know where you are coming from with "natural" feed and coconuts. I see it as "natural" as the meal isn't chemically extracted and nothing is added.

If it isn't broke don't fix it ;)
 
My experience with TB's off the track is that often they have not been wormed properly for a long time. This has always amazed me as you would think that for optimum performance that this would have been a priority.

My vet has always suggested that they be bomb drenched - Wormed weekly for three weeks with a broad spectrum wormer. One containing Ivermectin & Praziquontal is ideal.

Several of the ex racehorses have had the most terrible teeth. Some have been on steroids, though they are not supposed to be and it can knock them back for many months when they no longer get them.

At four they often look light as they still have a couple of year maturing to do. Muscle development comes with work as you have said and that will improve the neck line, though some TB's struggle to develop the 'Warmblood' look as they are bred with the neck lower.

Green feed is always the best for fattening up but if you are determined to feed a barefoot diet you will find this hard. Keep up the meadow hay level, he needs his time out so don't reduce that but make sure that he is warm when out.

Also check for pain issues as being in pain can cause weight loss. Does he stumble at all - this is a sign of the neck being out of alignment.
 
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