Feeding advice/suggestions please!

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cyberhorse

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I have a 16.2 KWPN who is in medium to hard work (mainly showjumping). He is just right on his current food in terms of weight, energy, condition etc... However his feet have gone a bit flakey (mild at this stage) so I have had the vet out. The advice has been to top up the biotin with a supplement, maybe give slightly more alf-alfa for the calcium which means swapping from Hi Fi molasses free to one with more Alf alfa. And the real problem cut out all sources of selenium! Both C&C and P&P have selenium added.

He is currently on calm and condition with a little power and performance and at 15 is the best he has ever been on anything. I am pretty gutted to now have to start again at square one.

At present he is on:

1/2 scoop C&C and 2 scoops Hi fi molasses free at B-fast

1/2 scoop P&P and 1/2 scoop C&C, 2 scoops Hi Fi Molasses free at Tea

He also has 550g blue chip pro split between feeds and ad lib haylage/hay mixture (we are doing 50:50 at the yard ATM as haylage supply has dried up)

Last time I looked into feeds I was going to go either with C&C, or speedibeet with some micronised linseed as a top up. I went for the C&C as it had all the pre and pro biotics and oils in it.

I have contacted the feed companies regarding the selenium to see if it is in anything else I am considering. TBH I think I will struggle to ditch the selenium without going back to straights and he does awful on these. He does not keep weight on and is not as fit and flexible, plus with all the additives I have to give on straights it costs a fortune. Also feeds need to be as straightforward as possible as the livery yard dislikes complicated regimes, the all ins seemed ideal at the time :-/

Ideas please!!!
 
Just heard back from blue chip and the pro has selenium added too. The pro has 3.6mg/kg, the C&C 1.76mg/kg and the P&P 1.85mg/kg. Of all the feeds the magic happened when he was put on the P&P so maybe I could keep that at the current level if I ditch the other two?

I have been advised to start on farriers formula so maybe I'll try just that without another balancer depending upon what feed I swap to.
 
Hello

We have had fantastic results with Feedmark's Hardy Hoof formula with 3 horses and one pony with flaky & weak feet. It takes a loading dose and then about 3 months and the new horn is fab. Would definitely recommend it for the "acute" state he is in now. Full nutrient breakdown is on their website.

As for the longer term we have good results with Dodson & Horell (spelling?) Staypower cubes for the eventers. There is a Staypower Mix too but ours get a bit loony on anything that has cereal.

In addition we give D&H balancer, Cortaflex and Alfa-A that is it.

None of the above list selenium as ingredient but you may wish do doublecheck that with the manufacturers.

Hope this helps.
 
Muckmeister said:
Hello

We have had fantastic results with Feedmark's Hardy Hoof formula with 3 horses and one pony with flaky & weak feet. It takes a loading dose and then about 3 months and the new horn is fab. Would definitely recommend it for the "acute" state he is in now. Full nutrient breakdown is on their website.

As for the longer term we have good results with Dodson & Horell (spelling?) Staypower cubes for the eventers. There is a Staypower Mix too but ours get a bit loony on anything that has cereal.

In addition we give D&H balancer, Cortaflex and Alfa-A that is it.

None of the above list selenium as ingredient but you may wish do doublecheck that with the manufacturers.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...


And hay, of course! lol
 
That's great thank you it gives me a few more options (he can be fussy!). From the research I have done I should not be exceeding 3mg selenium a day and he would be over this just on the recommended basic feed without a balancer on top. I kept with the balancer as the haylage is not always fantastic as it has been so hard for the yard to source this year with the appalling weather.

It is so difficult to get everything just right with feeds as it just gets so complicated. Fix one problem then another pops up!
 
I feed pure feeds, so if he was mine, I would start with Pure Working and maybe progress onto Pure Condition if needed.
Horses do need selenium, so you can't just cut it out completely.
If I thought I need a feet specific supplement, I would give Equistro Kerabol liquid as it is efficient and easy to administer as well as cost effective.
 
Thanks I'll take a look at those. I want to keep things low sugar / molasses free and give him enough protein and energy for the job. I can compare the %s to see what is similar to what is working now, obviously accounting for any increased protein by swapping the Hi Fi types.

I have been told by my vet to reduce the selenium rather than remove it completely. He will still get some from the power and performance, though the Prof at Edinburgh Veterinary Hospital my vet contacted said that horses in the UK do not generally need any as a supplement or added to feed, so maybe they get it naturally from UK forage? I calculated from the feeds he was on 9.34mg a day and he'll be going down to 2.76mg, which should be OK. The only studies I have found quoting a daily dosage recommend 1-3mg depending on workload and as he is a SJ I think nearer the top end is probably OK for him.
 
That's why I've chosen Pure feeds - high fibre, low starch and no alfalfa, the extra calories come from fat :) They also are VERY easy to feed as everything, including some chaff is in one bag. I feed them dry, thus always choose liquid supplement, but you could dampen them.
Of course they get some selenium from forage/grazing, what I meant is, it's impossible to cut out selenium entirely and you wouldn't want to, because they need some :)
I would hazard a guess that majority of compound feeds have levels of selenium averaged for the average grazing, so at the recommended amounts, the average horse gets what it needs.
 
wellsat said:
I would definitely feed a mug of micronised linseed a day to help his hooves.
Click to expand...

Would that be likely to make him gain weight or not at that level? At the moment he maintains well and is just right.

Current options from the nutritionists I have chatted to so far are:

Speedi Beet + Alfa A + formula for feet + yesacc
Alfa Beet + Hi Fi molasses free + formula for feet + yeasacc
Fibre Beet + Hi Fi molasses free + formula for feet + yesacc

We have gone for beet based products as he is much happier with these, their is a limit on how much chaff I can get down him if it is not coated in sugar! I am still waiting to hear back from some of the other manufacturers mentioned to see if those feeds are an option.

The formula for feet would seem to replace the blue chip pro without the selenium and with higher biotin levels. The increase in Alf Alfa providing more calcium, and the yesacc to replace the built in pre and pro biotics in the Calm and Condition and Blue Chip Pro. The farriers formula seemed no better in ingredients than the F4F, was more expensive and did not cover those ingredients he'll miss from coming off the blue chip pro.

My only concern is it is ramping up the protein a bit (14%) if I went for increasing the alf alfa in either portion. However the bucket feeds are a small proportion of his total feed given most is hay/haylage. So I guess I should not worry? Also I could be better going for lower protein in the beet and then get the alf alfa in the chaff as it is less % by weight? (if I can get it down him), or alf alfa in pellets so I can control the amount to get the calcium benefits and protein balanced to the optimum for him. Too many options...
 
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