Feeding contradictory feeds- quick question.

[littlen]

Firstly thankyou to all that helped me think of some things to feed and had a look at my horses condition, much appreicated

Now we have managed to work out some ideas that may help him.

The feed that was suggested most was Baileys Topline Cubes, as he needs help building muscle.
Has anyone feed this and what effects did it have?
Did you feed it permanantly or just for a period of time?

The problem is he is already on Baileys Lo Cal balancer as reccomended by nutritionist as he needs it for vits and mins etc, he looks fab on it and has a lovely shiney coat and feet so I would like to keep him on this if possible, but it just dosent have the right amount of calories.
Would it be a silly idea to feed both lo cal and topline together, maybe in reduced quantities?
Has anyone done this sort of thing before, feeding a complete feed alongside something else?

The other option was baileys lo cal alongside Alfa A oil, although I am worried as many people said it did fizz their horse up and also I dont want him to pile weight on just increase muscle mass and general condition steadily? Admittedly it sounds more sensible to feed the alfa a oil against the lo cal but the topline sounds like it does a better job.

So, has anyone had experience of doing this or of any of the feeds mentioned?

Thanks!

 

[SirenaXVI]

If your horse is thin then he is basically lacking in calories, there is no need to swap the Lo-cal for the conditioning cubes, they perform two different purposes.

For good doers and fatties, balancers like Lo-cal are fine fed on their own with a low calorie chop.

For YOUR horse, who is underweight (no idea how much as no photo) you can continue to use the Lo-cal for his essential vits and mins, but now you need to add calories, so you need to add a more calorific chop, feeding normal chaff in this instance is a waste of fibre and most are smothered in mollasses. Alfa Oil is a brilliant source of calories, however some horses do react to alfalfa, so one of the grass products like Badminton Ultra Grass or D&H Just Grass are useful substitutes in this case. Speedibeet is a brilliant product too and, because it is so low in sugar and starch (unlike normal sugar beet pulp) it is unlikely to cause any temperament problems. I would try this before adding any cubes to the diet tbh.

But , no there is no reason why you cannot use both if your horse needs the calories.

 

[littlen]

Thanks

He is not massivley underweight, more lacking in muscle than anything but I have been adviced he will find it hard to build up without the right diet, hence thinking of topline cubes. He could also do with a few extra pounds but not massive amounts! (we are working on schooling etc but I want to improve condition with feed alongside this, I am aware no feed will magically give me topline )

I thought about speedibeet but didnt think it would specifically target muscle gain and would add weight everywhere which i dont want, I want a feed that will mainly help condition not cause weight gain as such.
I have tried chaffs but didnt think they made any difference at all, I have tried alfa A and happy hoof and neither did anything for his weight, Hence thinking of adding the conditioning feed to his balancer which contains everything he needs, although I didnt know if this would be too much of a good thing?

I dont know if that makes sense.

 

[TGM]

If you use a complete feed such as Bailey's Topline Cubes it is already supplemented with vitamins and minerals, so if you feed the recommended amount for the horse's size and workload then it will be receiving the right amount of vit/mins.

If you feed less than the recommended amount, then you can top up with a balancer or vit/min supplement. For example, if you feed half the recommended amount of Topline Cubes then add half the recommended amount of balancer.

Alternatively, as suggested above, you can feed unsupplemented high calorie fibre feeds alongside the balancer, such as Alfa A Oil, Readigrass and/or Speedibeet.

 

[SirenaXVI]

TBH as you say, there is no feed that will magically give you muscle, there is only one way to get that - correct work. TBH no conditioning cube will give you muscle, what it will do is provide the calories to allow you to work him in order for him to gain muscle.

What work load does he have?

 

[littlen]

He is worked pretty much everyday. A mixture of hacking in walk trot and canter for an hour, schooling for 2 hours a week, and he also does 20 mile endurance rides very regulally so needs to be fit for these.

He is on restricted grazing due to having LGL last year, and also because the summer field with lots of grass in has a stream running through it and he cannot go in there as he allergic to flies and they swarm around the stream.

He is on baileys lo cal as I said but it dosent seem to be enough as he has dropped weight over winter and isnt gaining it again in spring. He isnt thin as such just has no muscle and no matter how hard I try isnt gaining it, I think due to not having the right calories?

 

[teddyt]

TBH as you say, there is no feed that will magically give you muscle, there is only one way to get that - correct work. TBH no conditioning cube will give you muscle, what it will do is provide the calories to allow you to work him in order for him to gain muscle.

I agree. There is no such thing as a bag of feed that will build muscle.

Its protein that is needed for muscle, alongside correct training. Energy/calories are entirely different- it doesnt build muscle but provides energy for day to day living, exercise and if fed in larger quantities than needed for living and exercise, fat.

If he has previously had laminitis then you should not feed a traditional conditioning cube- far too high in starch. Also, it is better to keep the horse on the lean side to reduce the risk.

You should look for a protein source but without additional starch. Alfalfa is an example of this- it is minimal starch but provides good quality protein. This could be fed alongside the lo-cal. It will provide slow release energy for the work he is doing as well as the protein to help build the muscle

 

[SirenaXVI]

I agree with Teddyt, you need good quality protein to gain the muscle, one way is through alfalfa which is low in sugars and starches but high in quality protein, another way is through full fat soya, but if you go down that route you need to feed Vit E and selenium which are both good for muscle function. This coupled with correct work will help. It is not the quantity of work but the quality that you need to focus on, for instance, on hacks do you just amble along or do you make him work properly forward?

If he is prone to Laminitis, as teddyt says, do not feed conditioning cubes - very high in starch which you must avoid at all costs.

If, as you say you have tried feeding alfalfa etc and it has not worked, you may want to have a word with your vet - I presume his worming, teeth etc are all up to date? How many times a day do you feed him?