feeding dry hay

coffeeandabagel

coffeeandabagel

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Does everyone soak hay fed in the stable?

I had been feeding haylage until my boy was turned away and then he was fed dry hay while he was in the field. He wasnt worked but I didnt notice any coughing when he cantered down the field to see me.

I will now have a new hay supply when he comes back to a new yard and I will have two to look after so wondering if I will have to faff with soaking hay. He will then be stabled day / night depending on sun and flies. If I dont soak his hay whats the worst that could happen. ie if its a cough that clears once I do soak it I will give him a go with feeding it dry, but if it could start some longer term problem then obvioulsy I wont.

Who feeds dry hay?
Might look into making a steamer if I have to do something.
 
I've always fed dry hay to all my horses, and not one of them ever had any coughing or anything. I guess it depends on the horse (some are more sensitive than others) and on the environment (some stables are airier than others).
 
Both mine have dry hay (although out 24/7 now ;))

In the past I have had horses where I have soaked hay either for respiratory reasons or weight control.

Just see how it goes.
 
For many years my mare has had her hay dampened (not soaked) with the fine spray on the hose. I use an old plastic bath and stick the hay in there, open up the slices a bit and...Voila! She has a Hay Bar, no hay nets. Hay is home grown btw.
 
Tnavas said:
Only ever fed dry hay except to a horse with respiratory problems.

Latest research says that soaking removes very little sugars.
Click to expand...


Do you know which research that is Tnavas, would like to have a look as I'm currently soaking for a lami pony so would be interested in latest thinking.
 
I feed dry hay, though the bale I've opened is dusty and I've dunked it today. Bet she won't eat it now.
 
Quote from the article...

"As it turns out, soaking hay in water does reduce the WSC, which are comprised mostly of fructans and the simple sugars glucose, fructose, and sucrose, but "there was great variation between individual hays in the amounts of WSC leached," the team reported."

Please, please, please, anyone with a horse in acute laminitis DO soak hay unless you can source hay tested below 10% NSC. It just isn't worth the risk. I believe some hays are so high that soaking for 16 hours wont remove enough. I have soaked twice in a change of water on a couple of occasions for my pony with good effect until I could source different hay.
Not soaking for acute laminitics in the absence of testing is a RISK and imo you are playing Russian Roulette until we have a better answer.
 
Btw, I feed soaked hay everywhere. lol I would definitely feed it in a stable for a horse with breathing problems. Stables are confined so more spores/dust will be inhaled than out doors.
 
I didn't used to feed hay soaked. But since one of my horses developed a respiratory infection, Vet has recommended I soak hay for all the horses. I'm not soaking to remove sugars, quick dunk and leave for five minutes job, so it's not really any great hardship. The additional plus is that it's slowed them right down with their eating. Can't get as much out the net in one go ;)

I'm going to continue with it, better safe than sorry. I am looking at buying a Hay cube though, think it'll make life a lot easier in winter.
 
I soak because I have horribly high sugar ryegrass hay. I will never be able to bring it down anywhere near 10-12% sugar but every little percentage taken out helps; I can tell by my mare's waistline within a few days if the yard has been a little remiss with soaking her nets, not to mention the 'too many haribos' effect on her behaviour...
I wouldn't bother if my hay tested around 12% or below, but my horses are on permanent calorie count.
 
Might get a haycube - hadn't seen them until today - looks perfect apart from the fact thats theres a step up into the stable but expect it will be light enough once the water is out. Will be interested to see if there is a pool at the bottom - the drain isnt right on the bottom is it? I can feed dry hay, haylage or soak my hay and feed in a good position.

Going to order one now!
 
amandap said:
Quote from the article...

"As it turns out, soaking hay in water does reduce the WSC, which are comprised mostly of fructans and the simple sugars glucose, fructose, and sucrose, but "there was great variation between individual hays in the amounts of WSC leached," the team reported."

Please, please, please, anyone with a horse in acute laminitis DO soak hay unless you can source hay tested below 10% NSC. It just isn't worth the risk. I believe some hays are so high that soaking for 16 hours wont remove enough. I have soaked twice in a change of water on a couple of occasions for my pony with good effect until I could source different hay.
Not soaking for acute laminitics in the absence of testing is a RISK and imo you are playing Russian Roulette until we have a better answer.
Click to expand...

Not a good idea to quote only part of an article! It stated quite clearly that it doesn't remove much of the sugar.
 
Tnavas said:
Not a good idea to quote only part of an article! It stated quite clearly that it doesn't remove much of the sugar.
Click to expand...

Removal of 'not much' is very relative!!! If your hay is already way high in sugar - which if your yard supplies ryegrass hay it will be - any degree of soak is better than no soak at all. While I agree with you that it appears that soaking has limited value, in the absence of any other possible measures to reduce dietary sugars - and the article did not suggest any - it is a very dangerous message to imply 'don't bother'.
 
Hen said:
Removal of 'not much' is very relative!!! If your hay is already way high in sugar - which if your yard supplies ryegrass hay it will be - any degree of soak is better than no soak at all. While I agree with you that it appears that soaking has limited value, in the absence of any other possible measures to reduce dietary sugars - and the article did not suggest any - it is a very dangerous message to imply 'don't bother'.
Click to expand...

THAT IS WHY I INCLUDED THE LINK IN MY POST - so that people could read it for themselves and get the FULL picture - not little bits from hysterical posters!
 
Call me hysterical or worse... I don't give one jot! There is no point in taking one piece of research as gospel when the health of your horse is at the end of your personal choices.
Soaking hay is a main weapon in acute laminitis and for anyone to suggest it is in any way pointless or ineffective to remove some WSC in acute laminitis is irresponsible in the extreme.

http://www.safergrass.org/
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diet
http://www.bi-learn.co.uk/categories/equine

Also to quote a further extract from the article...

"Key findings in the study included:

Soaking hay for 20 minutes resulted in the lowest WSC reduction (5%), while soaking hay for 16 hours resulted in the highest WSC reduction (27%);
There was no correlation between original WSC content and percentage of WSC reduction for any soaking time period;
The effects of soaking on CP varied some, but were not significant; and
There was no significant difference in dry matter or WSC content between soaking hay in flakes or shaken loose."

"while soaking hay for 16 hours resulted in the highest WSC reduction (27%);"
 
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amandap said:
Call me hysterical or worse... I don't give one jot! There is no point in taking one piece of research as gospel when the health of your horse is at the end of your personal choices.
Soaking hay is a main weapon in acute laminitis and for anyone to suggest it is in any way pointless or ineffective to remove some WSC in acute laminitis is irresponsible in the extreme.

http://www.safergrass.org/
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diet
http://www.bi-learn.co.uk/categories/equine

Also to quote a further extract from the article...

"Key findings in the study included:

Soaking hay for 20 minutes resulted in the lowest WSC reduction (5%), while soaking hay for 16 hours resulted in the highest WSC reduction (27%);
There was no correlation between original WSC content and percentage of WSC reduction for any soaking time period;
The effects of soaking on CP varied some, but were not significant; and
There was no significant difference in dry matter or WSC content between soaking hay in flakes or shaken loose."

"while soaking hay for 16 hours resulted in the highest WSC reduction (27%);"
Click to expand...

What I was getting at was that you were pinning all your hopes on soaking hay - and this research shows that soaking removes very little of the sugars, which means that you also have to consider other methods of helping to reduce the possible occurence of laminitis. Increasing exercise is a good method.

Soaking your hay for 16 hours will bring in a whole new range of problems as a result of fermentation - so is not a very feasible solution

Only quoting part of a research documents leads to wrong interpretation and understanding. This is why I gave the link so that those with lamanitic horses can read the whole article.

One of the most important lessons to learn is WHY the horse or pony became insulin resistant in the first place! It is a new problem - we rarely had to deal with laminitis when horses/ponies were fed straights. These problems have developed and increased along with the introduction of processed foods. It was a disease of fat native ponies eating too much spring grass.
 
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Soaking hay in the absence of tested low NSC hay is a fundamental intervention for acute laminitis. Yes, of course other interventions must also be considered and used such as treatment for PPID, exercize (if possible), mineral status, hoof support, management, stress reduction, weight loss...
I'm afraid I get very cross when there is any allusion to the idea that there is little point in soaking hay for acute laminitis. There are still vets recommending feed restriction (unsoaked hay!) that is verging on starvation, blood letting and all manner of weird and wonderful remedies.
Hay has to be the basic feed for acute laminitics as the sugar content of grass is too variable hour to hour never mind day to day or season to season and until producers strive to make low sugar hay or we can test every batch we have to do all we can to reduce sugar content in the horses major source of feed intake.

I would like to see your evidence of soaked hay fermenting. Hay left in water in direct sun may well but I have never seen evidence of fermentation. I also am not convinced laminitis, PPID etc. are a new problem or that it is the bucket feed that is the cause. I think there are a catalogue of causes piled on horses leading to breakdown of metabolism and other body systems but we are also much more aware of signs and symptoms. Horses are less and less being perceived as lazy or awkward and being listened to and investigated at last.

Gets down off soap box.
 
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amandap said:
Soaking hay in the absence of tested low NSC hay is a fundamental intervention for acute laminitis. Yes, of course other interventions must also be considered and used such as treatment for PPID, exercize (if possible), mineral status, hoof support, management, stress reduction, weight loss...
I'm afraid I get very cross when there is any allusion to the idea that there is little point in soaking hay for acute laminitis. There are still vets recommending feed restriction (unsoaked hay!) that is verging on starvation, blood letting and all manner of weird and wonderful remedies.
Hay has to be the basic feed for acute laminitics as the sugar content of grass is too variable hour to hour never mind day to day or season to season and until producers strive to make low sugar hay or we can test every batch we have to do all we can to reduce sugar content in the horses major source of feed intake.

I would like to see your evidence of soaked hay fermenting. Hay left in water in direct sun may well but I have never seen evidence of fermentation. I also am not convinced laminitis, PPID etc. are a new problem or that it is the bucket feed that is the cause. I think there are a catalogue of causes piled on horses leading to breakdown of metabolism and other body systems but we are also much more aware of signs and symptoms. Horses are less and less being perceived as lazy or awkward and being listened to and investigated at last.

Gets down off soap box.
Click to expand...

I can honestly say that 45 to as recent as 30 years ago we did not have these problems. Around 1976 the first meusli type feeds started to appear and of course became very popular because the smelt so lovely. The effect on some horses was horrific - lovely sensible horse becoming roaring monsters - these mixes were loaded with cereal grains including maize. Pony cubes were fine, they were no more than ground up hay and a sprinkling of barley, mushed up and extruded. The current feeds contain so much soy and that is well known to cause metabolic problems in humans so can quite easily be the cause of the metabolic problems that horses are suffering from. It is quite normal to have peanut hulls, Soy hulls, Lupin hulls added to feeds along with bran, broll, pollard or fines as it's sometimes known. I've never yet had a horse in my care go down with Laminitis and I have looked after 100's over the years. But I feed straights - no processed feeds at all - to be honest I have better uses for my money. Processed feeds ARE NOT tested on your ordinary riding horse - they are tested on race horses and then modified - there is no money available to test the general riding horse food.

It was unheard of to have a horse go down with laminitis, it was only fat native ponies that suffered and usually only in the spring. To treat we kept them stabled on deep beds, frog marched them to increase circulation, gave bran mashes and ordinary meadow hay. With good results.

Sensible people kept them on very short grass with great success. And I know everyone will now jump up and down declaring that very short grass is a problem - however it isn't, when the grass is billiard table short the pony has to do a hell of a lot of grazing to get even a small amount of food. It's how I keep my Clydesdales weight down. The paddock she is in has grass that would be lucky to be ½" long. She looks great and stays great all summer long - she has to work very hard to get her grass.

Grazing here in NZ is predominantly Rye grass and Clover, we do get the odd laminitic pony but rarely horses. Generally they live out 24/7, very few people feed hay and the trend is slowly returning to feeding of straights and high fibre diets. All my school horses lived out on grass 24/7 and were only hard fed when they worked.

School ponies out in their paddock
Algie.jpg
 
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many thanks for this advise tnavas, im based in australia and its facinating to read information regarding feeding from all over the world, so varied, especially for my pony which i am obviously over feeding, sincerly
 
All hay contains some dust and I always soak for that reason. Respiratory damage may not be immediately apparent but is cumulative over time.
 
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