Feeding mix? Why not.. research

SpottyTB

SpottyTB

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Hi there,

I am after some information on the reasons behind not feeding mixes to horses - i can't find anything online and would really appreciate some links to research done!

I don't personally feed mix but my MIL does in fairly large quantities (to youngster and broody/lightly ridden mare) and we'd like to research it and find out more!!

thanks

STB
 
No evidence here but I don't feed it because I find other feeds more suitable! such as fast fibre, which both my 28yr old mare and 3yr old gelding have! and it keeps them both in great condition!
 
kerrieberry2 said:
No evidence here but I don't feed it because I find other feeds more suitable! such as fast fibre, which both my 28yr old mare and 3yr old gelding have! and it keeps them both in great condition!
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Fast fibre is produced by a feed company its a blend of feeds with vits and minerals added makes it a mix in my book.
 
Vanner - like your average course mix...

I swear there's someone who's done research proving that feeding mixes are or CAN be dangerous to your horse - because their digestive system cannot cope with the cereals and what not's .. and because of this colic occurs and in some cases stomach ulcers?

(thats what i picked up from it, but i can't find any research - or rather i don't know where to look.. which says this.. i just keep getting feed companies going on about their mixes!)

I feed a balancer which i guess is the same as a mix? :/ i suppose the only difference is i feed a cup full of the balancer as opposed to a round stubbs scoop of mix!

:)
 
Surely a mix is the term commonly used to describe a cereal-based feed.
Fast fibre is made from forage (straw). :confused:

I don't like feeding mixes because it's not what a horse has evolved to eat. Cereals although generally well tolerated by the horse are much higher in starch than forage. This can cause problems such as excitability, weigh gain and poor gut heath when fed in large meals. I prefer to feed an all fibre food, and feel that more horses than you would realise would thrive on grass and hay.

As for the research, the nutrition research council 2007 is your Bible. It's quite easy to measure the digestibility and starch content of feed, and where in the GI tract it gets digested and absorbed. Evolution tells us that horses would only have had access to wild seeds in autumn, and in their natural state, which is less digestible than the rolled and cooked versions we find in mixes.
 
I can't offer specific research, but can give you my reasons for not feeding commercial mixes. I do not like to feed molasses to my good doers, but do like to feed it to my older mare who can drop weight, but I like to know how much of it I am giving her. I do not feed alfalfa to my Appy as she is intolerant of it. We tend to feed grass nuts to those who need feeding, as we believe that they are best fed feeds which most closely resemble their natural eating patterns. Most commercial mixes are filled with ingrediants which make the owner happy, rather than being what the horse requires imo.
 
Vanner - well yes this is something to consider, i know lots of people who feed mixes (course mix/mare&foal mix - that type of thing) and have no problem at all but have read on a few occasions how bad for the horse mixes are!

Basically, the person i am thinking off feeds quite old fashioned .. she has a rising 2 YO on 1 round stubbs scoop of mix, 1 round stubbs scoop of chaff and a cup of balancer (since adding the balancer he has put on weight slowly but surely - been trying to get him to gain weight for nearly a year!) All that is fed twice a day.. however on weekends for some reason he has a different feed.. 1stubbs round scoop of mix/barley (mixed together), 1 stubbs scoop bran and 1 stubbs scoop of beet and a cup of balancer.. To me, this is a huge amount (talking around 1.5kg/2kg PER MEAL as all scoops are heaped) and i think that's why he's not putting weight on .. as its to much for him to get the goodness out of it!

Hence searching for information RE feeding.. and all about the digestive system :).. It's all really handy to read and the person is really willing to learn a new way of feeding - if needs be!!
 
Just read your second post. It's not as easy as finding one complete piece of research I'm afraid :o it's a case of putting together the individual bits and bobs that are out there to paint a full picture.

The risk of colic for example, is related to sudden changes in feeding, and feeding too much cereal in one meal. Horses aren't naturally meal feeders and their GI tract is set up for stomach to digest the small trickle of starch they consume, and small intestine to absorb it. If you feed a big meal it gets pushed through the stomach and SI before it is absorbed, and finds itself on the large intestine, where all the bacteria who help the horse digest fibre reside. The cereal changes the ph in the large intestine, which kills the friendly bacteria and as they decompose they leach toxins, which paralyses and attacks the gut wall - and you get colic.

Ulcers may well be related to horses on cereal mixes but that's generally got more to do with the horses who are usually fed cereal mixes are usually also fed low fibre diets, (e.g. racehorses are often fed cereal mixes and are fed very little hay), and that's the combination of meal feeding/hours without trickle feeding/lack of forage that causes the ulcers, rather than the cereal itself per se.
 
Thanks Natch, that does make sense!! I'd just love to find some research to send to mil to read through!

Can you recommend me some "phrases" to put into google to search for? :)
 
Many mixes don't contain sweeteners by that I mean things like honey and mollasses .
You don't need to feed mixes to feed cereals I feed no mixes of any sort but my horses get oats .
I think the main reasons for me are
are they are often but not always sweetened
You can't tell what your buying they are a mix and they will add all sorts to bring it in at the feed levels they are aiming for.
I think the sweetenened feeds could be very bad for horses teeth and may be why you hear of more horses with Diastemas and cavitys now a days.
And some horses can't cope with cereals but they are by no means an issue to all.
They are simply too calorific for many horses in light work.
They are expensive.
 
And in response to your 3rd post :p ... That sounds like more than 2kg per meal and you are right, that meal won't be given the chance to stay in his stomach for long enough to be digested. He may well put on weight a lot easier if those 2 feeds were divided up into 3 or even better more smaller feeds throughout the day.

Vanner, I wish I had your faith in the feed industry! So much of it is based on NO science, let alone the stuff that's based on biased clinical trials which are only ever published if they went to the feed company's satisfaction :o For comparison see the human food and drink industry, which is much more regulated. Take alcohol, e numbers, sugar, sweeteners, you name it. All can be dangerous, and it's petfectly possible to feed your family on a diet on unregulated food from the supermarket that is likely to cause all manner of health problems but are freely available :o
 
Natch said:
Surely a mix is the term commonly used to describe a cereal-based feed.
Fast fibre is made from forage (straw). :confused:/QUOTE]

no there are many mixes that contain no cereal FF is simply one of them it does contain straw and other things too and added vits and minerals ( my pet hate) it's a mix.
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There is loads of info out there on equine nutrition. The main advice seems to be with start with forage and work up. Feed according to weight and workload. Here are a few olden rules I work to:

Horses should receive 2% of their body weight as food, the vast majority of which should be fibre based. Ie hay/haylage. To maintain weight, less if they need to lose.

Some of this could be substituted for short cut fibre I.e. chaff (ideally not the molassed kind) and other hard feeds (mixes etc) no more than 2 kg per meal (ideally less)

A source of vits and mins should be available, could be a lick, balancer or supplement.

Changes in the diet should be done slowly (not by giving a different feed at weekends!)
 
... I'm still playing catch up :o

Phrases to search for - and use google scholar (Google "google scholar" and use the website the results link to! It's the same as Google but only brings back science papers/books/websites). Also try searching the BEVA website for:

Risk factors for equine colic
(As above with cereal)
Cereal diet equine
Risk factors for equine gastric ulcer
(Ditto with cereal)
Meal size equine colic
Digestibility of cereals equine colic
effect of feeding cereal to horse
Cereal diet starch problems horse
Gut health horse cereals fibre


Let me know if they don't get quote what you want. But seriously, 'nutritional requirements of horses' by the NRC 2007 if you can borrow a copy from a library is great. It contains current guidelines and knowledge, and is packed full of the citations for the research supporting each bit.
 
Natch said:
Vanner, I wish I had your faith in the feed industry! :o
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Lol I don't have faith, my boys are on a handful of high fibre cubes and unmolassed chop just to get their supplements. I look at all the ingredient lists and check the vital stats on anything that goes into my boys (I'm a bit of a geek when it comes to that!). And I certainly would not feed according to a feed manufacturers guidelines! The amount they suggest is ridiculous!
 
Topspecs website is full of great advice , I'm just changing my horse off pasture mix to high fibre cubes as is borderline cushings , my youngster who I get in about 5 months will get no mixes because if the starch and sugar content.
 
Respectfully, I disagree with you goldenstar :p FF is a forage based feed, yes with added vits and minerals and some weird chemical processing ... but most people in the horse world would refer to it as a hard feed or simply feed, same goes for pony nuts made from fibre. If you look at the marketing materials from feed companies, I don't think you would find any that described a fibre-based product as a mix. All the products that I know of called mixes are mixtures of various cereals and grains (and molasses, vits etc) that look like horsey muesli. I believe 'mixes' originatef from when feeding straights was the norm and feed companies worked out that by mixing the different cereals together they could market it differently and make more money. Not to mention the opportunity to add stuff purely to appeal to the owner! :)
 
Natch said:
Respectfully, I disagree with you goldenstar :p FF is a forage based feed, yes with added vits and minerals and some weird chemical processing ... but most people in the horse world would refer to it as a hard feed or simply feed, same goes for pony nuts made from fibre. If you look at the marketing materials from feed companies, I don't think you would find any that described a fibre-based product as a mix. All the products that I know of called mixes are mixtures of various cereals and grains (and molasses, vits etc) that look like horsey muesli. I believe 'mixes' originatef from when feeding straights was the norm and feed companies worked out that by mixing the different cereals together they could market it differently and make more money. Not to mention the opportunity to add stuff purely to appeal to the owner! :)
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Mixes are mixes it matters not what's being mixed straights are straights FF can not be a straight so it's a mix and as you say processed.
Pony nuts can be made of all sorts of sweepings pressed together best avoided in my book .
Many mixs contain no cereal Saracens releve is a good example of an excellent cereal free mix.
 
I don't feed my guinea pigs a mix, because they'd pick out the best bits and just get plain fat and unhealthy, in their case, nuts/pellets/nuggets are best, because everything they need is mish/mashed together, and they can't be fussy.
I too have been told pellets are better than mixes for horses.. the best thing you can do is compare the ingredients of both say for example, pony nuts and pony mix, and see what the analysis of each one is.
 
Rather than the term mix I would differentiate between straight feeds (just one ingredient) and compound feeds (lots of ingredients).

These compound feeds can then be course mix or pelleted. Some have cereals, some are fibre, some have a mixture of both.

Some are better than others but I prefer not to feed them as I it's more difficult to keep track of exactly what you are feeding especially as manufacturers do change the formulations from time to time.

Feeding straights gives me more control over what I feed and flexibility to adjust ratios depending on what the horse needs at the time.
 
Thanks everyone for your replies - really helpful. Just to clarify i am referring to mixes that contain cereals - your basic course mix or stud mix!

Having a read up on feeds! :) thanks
 
I find it really interesting that as a human, I am being encouraged to eat more unprocessed food, whole grains, fresh fruit and veg etc. But as a horse owner I'm being encouraged to feed my horse (and other pets) more processed feed with additives for Africa !

Because I'm a cynic I can only think that this is beacuse the horse feed companies don't make a lot of money out of selling whole oats. But if they "add value" to those oats then, whadda ya know, they can make a bigger profit !

I also like to know what I'm feeding my horses, so when I see the legend "ingredients selected from" printed on the side of a bag of feed, I loose interest big time.

My horses eat grass, whole oats, lucerne chaff (just the cut up hay - NOTHING else), salt and a vit/min mix. Not because I'm cheap, but because I care about the quality of what they eat. :)
 
There is actually some research into that cubes are better digested than mixes, and that they are digested earlier is the system and have less chance of causing colic. I shall try find it :)
 
Hayleighm175 said:
There is actually some research into that cubes are better digested than mixes, and that they are digested earlier is the system and have less chance of causing colic. I shall try find it :)
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That is due to it being a more processed feed and easier to absorb the cubing process creates huge amounts of heat that also adds to this effect. However most cubes will have a higher sugar content as molasses has to be used as a binder to keep the nut intact,however most are under the impression mixes are higher in molasses which they arent
 
Most low calorie feed is based on straw, which is fine, but you have only to look at some of the straw bales on lorries to realise some of it is not stored that well. The straw bales used for processing are the same type used for power stations and they are kept out side. Straw pellets have additives to make them more digestible,http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6510e/x6510e03.htm, they are heat treated to form the pellet, all of which is fine as long as you are aware its not the natural product its made out to be.
Pellets tend to be cheaper than mix because they are able to use ingredients that would not look good in the bag, which what most buyers want. farmers feeding cattle and pigs tend to know exactly why they are buying their feed and are not swayed by the pretty bags.
 
Goldenstar said:
Mixes are mixes it matters not what's being mixed straights are straights FF can not be a straight so it's a mix and as you say processed.
Pony nuts can be made of all sorts of sweepings pressed together best avoided in my book .
Many mixs contain no cereal Saracens releve is a good example of an excellent cereal free mix.
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I don't think you have the same definition of mix. Around here, we call mix a mixture of grains (and sometimes cubes) that is sprayed with molasses. They have different names according to composition: competition mix is high energy, there is also leisure mix and stud mix. There are also cubes/nuts that are not called mix but that doesn't mean they are straights, they are a pelleted feed usually higher in fiber than mix as based on oatfeed (the outer part of the grain), wheatfeed, grass, beet and/or alfalfa.

OP, I would advise you take the free equine nutrition course of the university of Edinburgh that explains well how the horse's digestive system work
https://www.coursera.org/course/equinenutrition
 
http://www.ker.com/library/equinews/v14n2/v14n209.pdf

There is some useful information provided on this link about starches and whether horses actually need a low starch feed.

Personally I highly believe in forage first but I would also never disregard using mix for a horse if using a mix gave the desired results after trying forage and low starch feeds first.

There is a place for every feed on the market but it is our responsibility as owners to research and educate ourselves first.

Mixes and sugars are given bad press but this is mainly due to owners feeding inappropriately for the horse in front of them.
 
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