Feeding to improve feet

Mancha said:
The backs came off approx 6 months ago now, but it has only been in the last month or 2 that he's been back in work again as he was on field rest for a long time over the summer, so hopefully they're just adjusting to it like you say. It's difficult to say whether he's footsore or not as there is a certain degree of soreness behind due to the ongoing work with the spavins, he isn't any worse though!
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my farrier says that sometimes if shod in front but not behind they can slip a bit behind ,cracks and weaknesses are usually caused by trauma s ,trimming behind is advisable when the fronts are done . Is there a special reason why no hinds on ?
 
Mancha said:
What can i feed or add to feed to improve hoof quality/encourage growth?! If that's even possible?! Horse is shod in front, barefoot behind. His fronts look fine but the backs look like they are struggling a little with changeable weather, and following on from my last thread they are wearing down quickly to the point i fear he will be footsore soon. For anyone who did not see my last thread my horse has bone spavin and his back feet wear unevenly.

At the moment i'm putting kevin bacon on them. He lives out 24/7 and is fed once a day on hifi, speedi beet and a handful of pony nuts.

(Before anyone suggests it i do not intend to remove front shoes at any point soon)

I will try and get some pictures of them but if anyone has any advice it would be much appreciated :)
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I am unconvinced that you need to change anything.

1) your horse is not sore

2) barefoot feet look extremely short compared to shod feet and if he is not sore then there is nothing, yet, wrong with them

3) uneven foot wear is both normal and positively beneficial to a spavined horse (I have had two). It allows them to build the foot that will enable them to move most freely at any given point in time. You may see changes on a week by week basis depending, for example, whether a spell of cold wet weather has made him more sore. As he gets a copmpletely newgrown foot, he will begin to produce thicker horn at the points of most wear.


Hope that helps.
 
I didn't say it was totally natural, just that it's a hell of alot more natural than being stood in a stable! My horse will not tolerate being stabled and due to his leg problems he will not be stabled unless absolutely necessary for medical reasons etc. so it is fairly irrelevant really.
His backs are always tidied up when the fronts are done. He had them removed because he lives out with others and due to yard rules they must be barefoot behind, i also thought it was worth seeing if his backs were better off that way due to his spavin. I am moving yards soon and will be faced with the decision of whether or not to have the backs put on.
 
Thanks cptrayes- i must admit i only became concerned after comments i've received on here! It's something i will monitor closely :)
 
Mancha said:
I didn't say it was totally natural, just that it's a hell of alot more natural than being stood in a stable! My horse will not tolerate being stabled and due to his leg problems he will not be stabled unless absolutely necessary for medical reasons etc. so it is fairly irrelevant really.
His backs are always tidied up when the fronts are done. He had them removed because he lives out with others and due to yard rules they must be barefoot behind, i also thought it was worth seeing if his backs were better off that way due to his spavin. I am moving yards soon and will be faced with the decision of whether or not to have the backs put on.
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ahh i see defo agree with him moving around after all his happiness and comfort is more important! well i am sure you will do the right thing by him with the back shoes ,they may offer support?? but again will recommend limestone as cheap and efficient for strong hooves and a pot lasts for ages!! good luck
x
 
Mancha said:
Thanks cptrayes- i must admit i only became concerned after comments i've received on here! It's something i will monitor closely :)
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If you have any doubts about whether he is sore from the feet or the spavins find a nice patch of limestone chippings or a rubble farm path made of broken bricks and lead him up it. You will soon be able to tell if his feet are hurting him. If not, I wouldn't change anything and from my experience of two spavined horses who worked throughout until they fused, I certainly wouldn't shoe one that isn't footsore myself. Hope that helps.
 
Mine are out on a bare field with grass - so its not always about being in vs out - just dependant on yard facilities :)

The important thing for me with supplements is feeding the right balance of others - which is why I wouldn't supplement biotin on its own - I can't remember what it is, but the body requires another substance to absorb the biotin - without this the biotin will just be pooped out... It may be there is enough in Te diet but why I generally prefer to feed a made supplement. Magnesium is the same.
 
popularfurball said:
Mine are out on a bare field with grass - so its not always about being in vs out - just dependant on yard facilities :)

The important thing for me with supplements is feeding the right balance of others - which is why I wouldn't supplement biotin on its own - I can't remember what it is, but the body requires another substance to absorb the biotin - without this the biotin will just be pooped out... It may be there is enough in Te diet but why I generally prefer to feed a made supplement. Magnesium is the same.
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Thanks cptrayes, i often hack over the sort of paths you describe and he walks no differently to on tarmac.

popularfurball- i'm not sure what your first comment here is referring to?
 
With respect to hoof health, it is impossible to be 100% sure we are doing the correct thing : I feed Fast Fibre in winter to provide the minerals and vitamins needed for maintenance, in addition I feed micronised linseed which is a feed rather than an additive, it provides oil and is well known for skin and hoof nutrition.
Then as a newly converted barefooter, I am keen to do the best I can for the horse, I think if I started from scratch again I would use Profeet which has particularly well balanced minerals, but as it is, I already have a mix of straights which I am feeding.
My second barefoot mix [have used my barefoot mix number one for three months]
10gms Biotin: half the recommended daily requirement but there is some in the feedstuffs.
0 gms Limestone: there is some doubt whether this is successfully adsorbed in to the gut and there is some in the feedstuffs
8 gms MgOxide:not more in case it is unpalatable
8 gm Brewers yeast :seems to be a prebiotic, used in many additives
12gm Feedmark Steady-Up: herbs, magnesium and yeast sac [in stock]
12 gms Seaweed [I have a lot of this to work through]
12gms Equimins Advance [currently half price!] has a good variety of trace minerals
I have deliberately cut the biotin back to half the recommended rate to see if there is any difference in hoof quality between my first mix and my second mix, and I am adding Equimins advance to make sure the trace elements are in the feed. I have costed the mineral supplements at 0.50 per day and the linseed is 0.25 per day.
 
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Mancha said:
I don't understand how living out can cause such issues to his feet when horses are designed to live that way? If he was to live in he'd probably stuff himself stupid whenever he was turned out, whereas when he's out he has a much steadier intake of grass. He doesn't ever have an excessive amount of grass, as although he's never been laminitic i care for all my horses as if they could be! I'm not disagreeing with anyone i just don't get how changing to an unnatural method of keeping a horse could be better for their feet?!
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The trouble is the way we keep domesticated horses tends to be over managed. Grazing is overgrazed, fertilised, weedkilled and or becomes stressed so sugars are more present than in natural habitats. THAT is the difference.

As for your original question. Out of everything you are feeding I think you will find that the hi-fi is the biggest problem (alongslide the grass) in terms of sugar so I would look at swapping to at least the mollasses Free variety rather than the original or lite. On top of this, there are various supplements to support hoof growth.

I feed Magnesium (aids metabolism of sugars), brewers yeast (pro biotic) and biotin on top of a broad spectrum vit and min supplement and my horse's feet have improved dramatically. I spend more on Supplemets than I do on feed itself but it is worth it IMO. I have also removed all alfa-a from his diet and he is turned out overnight (when grass sugars are lower) and in during the day. I did use dengie coat and hoof at one stage (had a sample tub given to me) and I have to agree it did work so that might be worth a try.

As for the Kevin bacon. Out of all the hoof dressings on the market I do think it is the best HOWEVER I wouldn't become too reliant on it. Hoof health comes from the inside not out. I used to use it all the time but I now haven't used it for at least 6 months and my boy's feet don't look any the worse for it.
 
Mancha said:
Thanks cptrayes, i often hack over the sort of paths you describe and he walks no differently to on tarmac.

popularfurball- i'm not sure what your first comment here is referring to?
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Then unless he hobbles on tarmac, his feet are, quite simply, not too short. He says so :)
 
I can't actually remember the exact date they came off i think it was about 6 months ago but it may well not be that long yet! Also when they first came off he was on field rest for a while so it is only recently they have had to cope with actual 'work'
 
Another vote for Formula 4 Feet Equilife, sold by Laminitis Trust. Made such a difference to my mares feet the vet could not believe the x-rays!!
 
On the third pic up it looks like the last of the nail area is just about to grow out.
You can also see the new growth is just about to come into play, and when it does it will be a very good time to see how the feet are going to be.
If you have a healthy horse it will produce healthy horn tissue, as for how the concussion is distributed is up to the balance of the animal and the help of the professionals.
In 38 years I have never recommended any hoof additive.
 
doodleberry said:
when you feed horses supplements they will only use what they need and the rest can be a waste of money . I would start with limestone flour by naf which is cheap but very effective on some horses then if thats not enough you can work your way thru i.e biotin farriers formula etc but start cheap just because things are expensive doesn't mean they will work. Sorry if this has already been suggested i couldnt be bothered to read all the posts!!
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Agree with this just remember that magnesium is very important when it comes to the absorption of calcium (limestone flour)
 
The hooves seem to be of good quality, you don't tell us what he is getting at the moment for maintenance, you need to make sure he is on a fibre based diet, cut out sugars [ryegrass, bagged feeds and haylage are main sources] cut out cereals [sugars again]
Fast Fibre by Allen and Page is a good source of minerals.
I live in an area with low magnesium [like a lot of the UK] and the grass and the haylage is cattle farmer sown, grown and fertilised, so the diet has potentially too many sugars and not enough fibre.
I have to limit the grazing and soak any acid smelling haylage, I feed linseed meal [good for skin and hooves], magnesium, and some other barefoot minerals, once he is established barefoot you can re assess the diet, but to be honest it is not expensive compared with feeding branded hi spec feeds at the rates recommended by some of these feed firms.
So yes, I recommend you maybe get six weeks supply of pro feet and see how it goes, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRO-HOOF-...r_Equipment&hash=item415ecd69e0#ht_1589wt_698
if there is no significant difference, and your barefoot transition [ take off front shoes six weeks after being shod and being on diet then you can consider cutting out the special supplement, as long as he is definitely getting enough minerals in his diet,.
 
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At the moment he's on 1/2 scoop hifi, 1/2 scoop speedi beet, and a very stingy handful of pony nuts just to spice it up a bit!! That's once a day. At the moment i'm not feeding any additives.
 
Alfalfa and good vit and min supplement, my horses feet have never looked better since being on alfa, he use to have bad feet in the summer they would break and just about hold on a shoe, had to have him done every 5 weeks, now he goes to 7 weeks and the shoes are still on nice and strong, over the years that is the only difference really. He's 32, 33 in Jan so I've had a long time to monitor lol
 
Mancha said:
Hence my thread for advice on diet :confused:
As for the kevin bacon it was recommended by both my farrier and vet when his feet were very dry in the summer and it did improve them alot. No doubt you're about to shoot kevin bacon to pieces though judging by the tone of your post?
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It was recommended to me too :-) I think it is good as it has antibacterial and stuff, I've also used Effol, I prefer the liquid to the solid ones, especially in the winter
 
Mancha said:
I don't understand how living out can cause such issues to his feet when horses are designed to live that way? If he was to live in he'd probably stuff himself stupid whenever he was turned out, whereas when he's out he has a much steadier intake of grass. He doesn't ever have an excessive amount of grass, as although he's never been laminitic i care for all my horses as if they could be! I'm not disagreeing with anyone i just don't get how changing to an unnatural method of keeping a horse could be better for their feet?!
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Because the way we keep horses wether it be out or in, isn't natural, it isn't as natural as running wild with a herd where grazing wouldn't be so readily available to I guess they regulate themselves, just because your horses are out 24/7 doesn't mean its like their natural environment
 
As i've already pointed out a few pages back, when i say natural, i mean alot more natural than being stood inside! The way i keep my horse in terms of stabling is not really for debate as i cannot and will not stable him.
 
So glad to hear that, I will always try to get my clients (especial laminitics) to be out 24/7 with maybe the option of a covered area as it is nice for the feet to be dry once a day if possible.
I do however have a lot of laminitics wearing safety muzzles, the best ones strap on to the Head collar .
Finally from me, I would just like to say (again) that if your horse is healthy it will produce healthy feet, before you buy anything I would beg you to stop and look at him and if you are in doubt call either a vet, or an independent nutritionist to assess his health for you.
The 3 billion horse food/tack/additive trade relies on people thinking something is wrong not that it is alright.
You sound like someone who knows your horse, so follow your instinct and if you do change anything please do it slowly and gradually.
Good luck, not that you need it.
 
Yeah i must admit i am a bit suspicious when farriers say a horse 'needs' shoes, i know there are some that might, but i think for some farriers its a case of making their trip a bit more worthwhile. I've worked on livery yards where the owners have not been present when their horses have been shod and farriers have often said to tell the owners their horse needed something or other 'extra' done!
 
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