Feel powerless is there nothing I can do?

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sam72431

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So a year or so ago I sent my youngster to a friend for breaking as I didn't have time to do it myself, I had decided I would probably make the very hard decision to sell as I was worried about a lack of time! But my friend persuaded me to keep him on understanding I could take as long as I needed to pay her as I was in a poor financial situation

So I moved my other horse to her yard and had both horses on livery and thought I had definitely made right decision as he is a real sweetie etc

Anyway I ended up having a big vet bill for him nearly £2k so me paying my friend back was put on hold she said it was fine! I started paying her back and was doing well but the yard was very difficult and I just wasnt happy there was no grass etc i asked if I could move on understanding I would sign a contract and set up standing order she was happy with this I have a months notice! All was fine she said she understood as yard wasnt great the stables I had been given not big enough etc

Anyway a week before I was due to move I was told I had to pay about £600 or I couldn't move with or without a contract a complete shock and I was so upset as I had already paid non refundable deposit on new yard and was told there wasn't room for me to keep both horses at yard only one I owed money on I just couldn't have to horses in two yards as too difficult

Was told I could pay for full grass livery for him at £55 a week plus paying back money I just couldn't afford to do this tried to explain etc but just couldn't see what I could do I was then asked why don't you sign him over to clear debt on understanding he won't be sold

Obv not what I wanted to do but I just couldn't see any other way out, I had lot of other unrelated to horses stuff going on in my life and if honest was stressed to the absolute max as well as still paying huge vet bill off! (He was insured but not covered, that's another story)

So I signed him over was told he wouldn't be sold but a matter of weeks later she had sold him over for a profit of what I had signed him over for! I didn't think I needed to put a clause in contract to say he couldn't be sold as felt I could trust a friend?! She has sold him to someone at her yard on understanding he won't leave yard I don't d have a problem with person but I don't think they are all that suitable as she is quite young, but more the fact I've been lied to and manipulated I found out he has been sold about month ago

But although I was upset I didn't think much I could do! Anyway I went to see him today and he really doesn't look great not RSPCA bad but just unkempt, he didnt look like he had been brushed, main straggly, feet cracked when he has always had good feet, topline completely gone neck scraggy and just looked dull and unhappy! Also had a scar on his back leg and some swelling and didnt look completely sound on it! I had two friends with me (I had asked new owner ok to go see him as I was going to yard to pick up other stuff and was told by owner of horse fine to see him) both friends said he looked different one has seen him when I had him and other only in pics both commented he didn't look good and were shocked both said yes defo no sound!

Sorry for extremely long post! But is there anything I can do? I have nothing in writing to say she wouldn't sell him not even a text :( but I feel I was almost blackmailed into my situation and I just feel awfull for him, I wish I had big money to offer them but I just don't I know I can look after him better even though I couldn't afford to buy him I am financially much more stable as have better paid job!

Can anyone help I feel so powerless please no one make me feel any worse I already feel like an awfull human being for letting him down thanks xx
 
You can do nothing and even if you had written any sales contract, they are entirely worthless. Once you pass over ownership you pass over all control. Learn from this and move on.
 
I have read your post a couple of times. I think legally there is nothing you can do as nothing was written down so you have to think why are you upset and what if anything you can do to resolve the situation.
Your friend did you a favour over a long period of time and must have done a reasonable job for her to sell the horse in this market, she may not of told you but she has waited for her loan to be paid and by the sound of it been really patient. Perhaps you could now pay her back and afford to keep both horses but coming into winter did she think it was better to cut her loses while she had a buyer? To be honest if you owed her £600 and the horse was going off the yard I think I would have wanted some money.
If you are not pleased about the girl who has bought it why don't you just say to her that if she ever needs to sell you will buy him back, but I think its something you are going to have to come to terms with as the reasons you thought about selling him in the first place, lack of time, are going to get worse once the clocks change. Who ever bought him would have managed him differently, its just you can see him.
I think you need to concentrate on the horse you have and save some money as a buffer so if the unexpected happens again you are not forced a position of having to do things that you regret later.
 
She was very patient I agree but I was also put under alot of pressure to sign him over!

I have just found a text she sent me promising never to sell him? Does this put things into a new perspective?
 
Very very sadly i doubt you have a case

If you had not signed the horse over you could be in a far worse situation. I would move on from here hard though it is
 
I am sorry, OP, but there is no such thing as a clause in a contract to prevent the owner selling a horse. What if they fall on hard times and can no longer afford the horse? Ownership is ownership and they can sell to whoever they wish, whenever they wish, even if you drew up a contract saying that they couldn't.

Poor horse. There is nothing you can do though now. I guess you could have a chat with the owners, but they might tell you to jog on. :(
 
I've spoken to the woman I sold him to as she only sold him to a little girl at her yard I think she just saw an opportunity of making a quick buck, I said to her in a very polite way that I wasn't too happy of how he was looking that he was lame and what had happened? She said he wasn't lame and had never looked better which just isn't true but I said no point in bickering as it's just a difference of opinion just so upsetting for me as I have had him since he was sixteen months old and when I went and saw him he still thinks I'm mum even though I haven't seen him in weeks! I just can believe anyone can be so deceitful I understand falling on hard times but a matter of weeks after he had been signed over is hard to take and she didnt even tell me first what she was doing so so upsetting and I'm so angry as well as I thought I could trust her!
 
My thoughts, for what they are worth.

This sort of thing has happened before sadly and will probably happen again.

Your friend made a quick buck on the horse. She may even have had the home lined up for him before she asked you to sign him over. Not much of a friend.

If you don't mind me asking, what was the estimated value of the horse against the amount you owed for schooling? You might also know the price he was sold on for. That is the way to work out if you have been shafted or not.

Interesting that she has sold the horse to someone on the yard with a clause that he mustn't be sold on. She must see him as a money tree.

I don't think you have a leg to stand on sadly. You were in a dire straits and you signed your horse over of your own free will. What happened next is not in your court as it were. If might be worth just speaking with the BHS legal helpline if you are a member, just to explore every avenue.

For what it is worth, I do think your friend took advantage or you for her own gain. The vultures are always circling, watch out for them.
 
The total schooling was £1950 I had paid some off over the six month period but when she demanded a big amount for the a big amount before I could move I asked for money back I had paid and things as he would be worth I would estimate £3-4k on open market, he is well schooled good to hack and true gent, I sent him to her for three months schooling where she got him happy under saddle hacking etc moving off the leg, she did a good job but I did refinements of asking for contact etc so she is not only one responsible for how he is, I do feel I was overcharged for the three months work I was constantly told I would be given an idea of costs but that never happened until they mounted up, I was charged £55 a week full grass livery, he was only being fed once a day and was barefoot I was then charged on top for her time! Pretty steep I think! He wasn't given hay or anything like that as it was summertime, what makes me cross is ok I owed her for time but really it wouldn't of cost her much at all over those three months I would say £500 if your being extremely extremely generous, so she has got a decent horse for £500 and then sold him on for £3k I feel I was almost blackmAiled and is this not profiteering?!

I am going to ring bhs legal helpline was going to ask if someone had number I am a gold member but can't find my card lol.

Yeah if nothing else has taught me a valuable lesson never to trust anyone at all and that being nice just means you get trampled all over I feel sick to my stomach of this awfull situation and don't honestly know how she sleeps at night
 
So she was charging roughly £160 a week, that's not even a full weeks wages and that wouldn't have been all profit as I guess she has to cover costs on her yard. That's actually pretty cheap for breaking/schooling livery. Regardless of how cheap he is to keep it's a dangerous job, I don't know many professionals that do it for much less than £200 a week. And unfortunately, you agreed to sign over ownership. Perhaps she's had people do similar in the past and even if you were intending to pay back all the money, it's possible previous clients may not have. She could have her own bills to pay. You could have sold him on the open market without moving him from her yard and then had enough to pay her back, but you didn't. I'm not taking sides just giving another perspective, I don't think you've been over charged and I don't think there's anything you can do about the situation now, except inform new owners you would be interested if they were ever to sell horse on
 
I don't quite understand where the £500 came from, if the charge was £1,950? When I was looking at breaking/schooling livery it was coming out between £175 and £190 per week, also during the summer so I don't think her charges for 3 months are unreasonable. Even if she is a friend she should expect to be paid for her time bringing on your horse if you asked her to do so.

I can understand why she asked you for a lump sum before leaving, money owing between friends is very difficult and maybe she just felt that it had been owed to her for too long and now you were no longer supporting her yard she had to ask for some of it back.

It does seem deceitful that she took the horse and sold it on so quickly without even discussing it with you though. Legally I don't think there is much you can do, if you have the money you could offer to buy the horse back from the new owner but failing that I think you just need to try and move on and concentrate on your remaining horse.
 
You don't say how big a yard it is, but to give the YO her due, she may have had money problems with people other than you at the same time. I'm a YO (in a very small way) and one bad winter two of my three liveries got into financial difficulties. I ended up with them each owing me quite large amounts of money, which they took ages to pay back. I felt I couldn't turn get rid of their horses as there was nowhere else in the vicinity for them to go to, and was feeding them at my expense. One of the liveries then started talking about getting a 'project' horse - when she couldn't even pay for the one she already had!!

Your YO does appear to have behaved deceitfully, but inlaw I don't think there's anything you can do. And she/the yard can't be all bad, or you would not have used them??
 
Her charges are not unreasonable and you owed her the money.
She has now sold the horse on which what I would expect her to do.
There's nothing you can do OP move on and learn from the experiance.
 
I'm afraid I agree with everyone else. From the dates you've given the horse was with your friend for eight or nine months, of which three months were schooling livery, so she really isn't making a profit selling him at 3K.

The only possible way forward is for you to ask the new owners if they'd consider selling him back to you if they ever decide to sell (and your friend hasn't got any say on where they keep the horse or sell it on, just as you would have no say in whether or not she sold it on after she bought it from you).

However - and I hope you don't mind me saying this - it simply doesn't sound as though you can cope financially with two horses. I think you need to take a bit of a step back, reassess where you are financially, and don't get yourself into this kind of position again. If you can't afford to pay the running costs as you go along, you've got no chance of ever clearing a debt at the same time.
 
As the scrap man said when he towed away my first car, "Experience is cheap whatever you pay for it".

As I've posted here before, always always always get this sort of agreement in writing. It doesn't have to be a formal agreement. It can be a friendly letter on the lines of, "Hi, I am just writing to clarify what we agreed today as I haven't got a very good memory for these things! I think we said blah, blah, blah...If that is correct, could you please sign the bottom of the enclosed copy of this letter and return it to me in the stamped address envelope I've enclosed so we both have a record?" The bottom line of the copy letter should state, "I agree that our contract is as above" with a signature and date.

I don't agree that you lose all control once a horse or anything else is sold. That depends on the terms of the contract of sale, but you would be silly not to have that in writing too as above. Don't rely on friendship or people's decency as when they are up against it, they will change their minds or conveniently forget! You can easily include a clause, "If you ever agree to sell, you've agreed to give me first refusal at the price agreed with another purchaser". I am not a lawyer but the clause is called a "right of pre-emption" and it is not unusual in the sale of Scottish property. Don't know about down south but can see no reason why it might not be much the same.
 
Thanks everyone, just to clarify she only had him for three months at grass livery he was being fed once a day kept at grass then I was charged for your at £30 a day six days a week on top of the £55 grass livery per week, plus he wasn't unbroken he was ridden as a three and half year old so not really that dangerous of a job I just simply didnt have time to do it myself as my shifts at time were all over place before I decided to send him to her and I changed jobs once he was broken so I kind of wish I did it myself really, I was mainly charged for her time where the £500 comes in is actual costs for food etc is what I mean so although the bill was £1950 it actually only cost her about £500 as only fed once a day no hat etc she doesn't do this as a full time job just has a few horses and takes one in every once in a while so it's not like I was taking away time she could be earning on other horses! I then had him on livery with her for a further 8 months and was paying her money back, yeah I do wish I sold him on open market and got more money but was actually hoping she would give him a good home I could keep in touch and further down the line be in a position to but him back! That is another reason I'm so upset as well plus fact Ive had him since sixteen months, please can someone give me bhs legal helpline number I can't find it anywhere I'm a gold member! Please!! Thanks guys
 
I'm not sure I completely understand what's happened as by the sounds of it you were expecting your friend to keep your horse at a cost to her until you could buy him back? Surely that would mean she'd lose out on even more money in the long run?

Anyway the legal helpline number is 0870 900 2172. Good luck!
 
Thank you! No I was just hoping at some point if she chose to sell him I could buy him back and that I would be able to still see him ride him etc! Thanks for the number!
 
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