Feeling fed up, crap start to 2019

Hormonal Filly

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All my friends are out doing some dressage, hunting, training for the upcoming season and having fun on their equines. Wish I could be doing the same.

My 10yr old 14.2 cob was diagnosed with arthritis in his neck in November 2018, he had it medicated and its a slow rehab process building him up. Realistically I can't see him ever doing any low level eventing or hunter trials, plus the fact he travels so badly it isn't fun even local events.

My other is a young gelding is a typical welsh, fancy mover but scared of his own shadow. He is having his teeth done this week but suspect something isn't quite right with him now so investigations are to come with that i'm sure. Hes shockingly bad at loading but travels like a dream, puts me off going anywhere.

I keep admiring gorgeous horses for sale on horse and hound sales page, clear x-rays, ready to go.

I'd love a horse I could just decide to box up and go somewhere, have fun on. Go to a local dressage, go to rallys, do competitions that the local RC do I'm part of. I've never had a easy going horse, always needed someone to help me load both of mine (have tried everything over the years) and its never stress free if I'm honest due to their silly quirks. I've had both for 5 years, bought them for pennies unbacked and now I've grown up i'd love something bigger with more capabilities I suppose. They're both foot perfect at hacking mind and its not like I could now sell them with their issues.

All my earnings goes on keeping them both at a lovely DIY livery yard with no money to get another as can just afford them 2 alone. I'm attached to them both but I'd realistically love to have one horse I could just get on and have fun.

They cost me a fortune and currently getting no enjoyment. :( I had my trailer serviced yesterday and it just upset me I suppose, sorry for the downer of a post all.
 

Leo Walker

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If you aren't happy something needs to change. Loan the cob to someone who doesn't want to travel and then chuck the welsh D out for a year and get yourself something else on loan.
 

The-Bookworm

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Nothing wrong with having a down day, it would depend on how long that lasted.
Horses are to me for my pleasure and enjoyment. If I seriously am not getting that, I would at what I could do to change things.

If it helps, I have no transport and mine loads first time and travels well. We just don't have the option to go anywhere.

The youngster may have no issues at all? What are you investigating?
 

Cortez

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if they are 100% as hacks then they can be sold or, if you can do it, loaned out. People always want excellent hacks. Sell them and buy what you want-life is too short and they could well be good horses for other people.

Second this ^^^ Sell both (there's always someone who wants what you don't, somehow), and get something that makes your heart sing. Life's too short, etc.....
 

ihatework

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Loan the cob out as a happy hack. If the neck stabilises and he does a good job for someone maybe down the line transfer ownership for a nominal sum.

The Welsh, no reason not to fix his loading problems. Then get him out frequently - maybe he will come around and if not sell him.

Don’t believe everything you read in adverts, it’s not all butterflies and roses when a new horse arrives - you still have to invest time & energy into the new partnership.
 

SpringArising

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I was in the same position as you a while back. I had a Welsh who was basically a bastard as and when he fancied and no amount of time and training I put into him helped. I loved him but I didn't like him. I spent so long debating what to do as I didn't want him being passed around but I also knew I wasn't happy, and I was spending 500 a month on a horse who kept hurting me. In the end I bit the bullet and sold him for peanuts and it's the best thing I could have done. He's now found a home more suited to him and is doing great.

I now have the horse of my dreams. Seriously, he makes me happy EVERY day and I feel so lucky to have found him. I can do everything that I want to do, drama free knowing he's not going to dump my ass if a leaf blows the wrong way! I had totally forgotten that horses could be enjoyable. Bite the bullet and make the decision.
 

paddy555

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All my friends are out doing some dressage, hunting, training for the upcoming season and having fun on their equines. Wish I could be doing the same.

My 10yr old 14.2 cob was diagnosed with arthritis in his neck in November 2018, he had it medicated and its a slow rehab process building him up. Realistically I can't see him ever doing any low level eventing or hunter trials, plus the fact he travels so badly it isn't fun even local events.

My other is a young gelding is a typical welsh, fancy mover but scared of his own shadow. He is having his teeth done this week but suspect something isn't quite right with him now so investigations are to come with that i'm sure. Hes shockingly bad at loading but travels like a dream, puts me off going anywhere.

I keep admiring gorgeous horses for sale on horse and hound sales page, clear x-rays, ready to go.

I'd love a horse I could just decide to box up and go somewhere, have fun on. Go to a local dressage, go to rallys, do competitions that the local RC do I'm part of. I've never had a easy going horse, always needed someone to help me load both of mine (have tried everything over the years) and its never stress free if I'm honest due to their silly quirks. I've had both for 5 years, bought them for pennies unbacked and now I've grown up i'd love something bigger with more capabilities I suppose. They're both foot perfect at hacking mind and its not like I could now sell them with their issues.

All my earnings goes on keeping them both at a lovely DIY livery yard with no money to get another as can just afford them 2 alone. I'm attached to them both but I'd realistically love to have one horse I could just get on and have fun.

They cost me a fortune and currently getting no enjoyment. :( I had my trailer serviced yesterday and it just upset me I suppose, sorry for the downer of a post all.

sorry to say this but what a tale of woe. There are plenty of people who would love to have just one horse let alone two and having one that was foot perfect at hacking would be a dream come true for them as would a lovely livery yard. Nov to jan is very little time for a horse to recover.. As for the younger one you say he is foot perfect at hacking so get on and do it. If he is scared of his own shadow look at desensitising him. If he won't load get some loading lessons.

Many of us don't have stress free horses but have to work round them. Is it really due to their silly quirks? they are horses, they have their own views. The human is the one with the brain who has to learn to accommodate the quirks.
 

Hormonal Filly

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Get someone to help you sort the loading with the younger one?

I've had SO many people help me over the years, many very experienced and one loading person. My cob I can understand due to his neck problem and he loads ok within a few minutes, he just is a bad traveler. My youngster is just a little s**t. He use to travel fine then learnt his power as he grew older. Hes a full up 15.2 and even with a dually on will happily drag 4 people around. I think i've tried it all, except a chiffney. He started walking straight into my 506 (partition out, serviced, all fine) with 2 lunge lines behind him. Now he won't go within a few 20ft of the box as he knows he has to go in as hates the lunge lines on his but. I've tried feeding him in there, doing it daily, its always worse away from home. I really do think its just him being a prat. He goes out in it frequently, as in weekly, I even tried boxing just around the block so he knew it wasn't to work and it made 0 difference. To add, he travels foot perfect doesn't even sweat and don't even know hes in there. I took him for a 'birthday hack' last week which I could of cried about at the end. He was a sod to get into the box, had a nice hack and then to come home a nightmare, he went in after 20 minutes. Made me wish I never bothered. Even if he was to load I wonder, as hes still a t**t with his spookiness, its all on his own terms which I've been told is very 'welshy'. Hes funny in the field, one day he'll follow me around like a puppy, next I won't get near him. Hes ace to hack even across main roads on his own and has given a few nice tests. I advertised him last year and had 4 separate people wanting to view him but cried at the thought of it and turned them away.

The youngster may have no issues at all? What are you investigating?

Hes increasingly stopping going downhill to rest a leg and feels uncomfortable, worse when I first get on him but then he'll have a day when hes full of it and feels fine, so couldn't work out if it was him being a prat or pain. Vet thinks something could be going on in the hock possibly so going to look this week when hes doing his teeth.

I have friends whos horses travel once a year and load perfect in my box.
 
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MotherOfChickens

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At the risk of sounding a bit woo, if you dont like a horse they will know it-the weight of expectation will affect everything. If you like your Welsh OP then get a pro in to fix loading issues, if you dont like him them sell.

If you've had lots of problems loading/travelling different horses then look to your transport and even your driving. And yes, even if you buy 'ready made' then you need time to get a new relationship built but its hard to build one with a horse you dont actively like. I've sent back/rehomed two horses with various issues in recent years, both are doing incredibly well (I liked the first one but try as I might, I didnt the second and waited too long to do anything about it). I now have a pony I like and am planning all sorts!
 

milliepops

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hope there's nothing much wrong with your younger horse. I have to agree that if you really want a different horse, there will be a home for the ones you've got. I've bought dodgy loaders in the past, if you want to address this then I think you have to view it as a task that just takes as long as it takes (weeks/months) and try never to get to the point where you are just bundling them on in desperation cos you want to go somewhere, otherwise they just learn to fight you as you aren't in the right frame of mind. It's not something, generally, that can be "fixed", it's something that has to be taught/learnt and that takes longer especially for the ones that have got into a pattern or habit, you need more patience (and nous) than they have objections ;)

Otherwise, if you just need a moan, then whinge away, it's a crap time of year and everything is more difficult in the winter, but then dust yourself off and find a way to just chug along until the spring days make it all seem bearable again :)
 

ester

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Then you’ve not been using the right people, tarrsteps has always says she likes welsh because its not unusual for them to have loading issues so they at least bring in income. They think about things a bit differently though so you really do need the right person to work out what the issue is, how they tick and how you deal with it.

To me he sounds great otherwise but if you decide not to keep him you are setting him up for more life options if the loading is more sorted.
 

Hormonal Filly

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sorry to say this but what a tale of woe. There are plenty of people who would love to have just one horse let alone two and having one that was foot perfect at hacking would be a dream come true for them as would a lovely livery yard. Nov to jan is very little time for a horse to recover.. As for the younger one you say he is foot perfect at hacking so get on and do it. If he is scared of his own shadow look at desensitising him. If he won't load get some loading lessons.

Many of us don't have stress free horses but have to work round them. Is it really due to their silly quirks? they are horses, they have their own views. The human is the one with the brain who has to learn to accommodate the quirks.

Thank you for being so honest. I am extremely lucky to have 2 horses and a lovely livery yard but I've worked damn hard for it to get there as most i'm sure have. Hes not fully recovered yet but the arthritis is so bad it will advance and will be painful for him to jump, specially as he gets older and hes only just turned 10 that joint with his hock arthritis. I've had the youngster 5 years too, hes been desensitized many times by professionals, hes a typical welshy. If you've owned one your know what they can be like. I've also had loading lessons and within a few days hes back to his antics, he even surprised one lady, I will see what the vet says and get someone out again.

I have lived with their quirks for years and just recently thought how nice it would be to have a easy horse I could have fun on now I'm at a nice yard with good facilities. They're like big pets and both loved very much, which is why i'd struggle to sell. Maybe thats wrong of me I apologize, I was posting wondered if people had been in a similar situation to me.

If you've had lots of problems loading/travelling different horses then look to your transport and even your driving. And yes, even if you buy 'ready made' then you need time to get a new relationship built but its hard to build one with a horse you dont actively like. I've sent back/rehomed two horses with various issues in recent years, both are doing incredibly well (I liked the first one but try as I might, I didnt the second and waited too long to do anything about it). I now have a pony I like and am planning all sorts!

Funnily enough I did look into the driving side of it, I got my father to drive as well as a good friend who drive very very slowly to see if it was that, and it made 0 difference even in a different trailer (newer version) than mine

Ester, who do you recommend? I'm south west based.
 

ester

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I have fewer Welshie contacts down there but can ask around :). I do think you need someone who knows there a bit different. Several years ago I sent a long descriptive email to a potential new dentist who succinctly replied with ‘just welsh then’. Which in a lot of ways was a great response as I knew he ‘got it’.
 

MotherOfChickens

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Thank you for being so honest. I am extremely lucky to have 2 horses and a lovely livery yard but I've worked damn hard for it to get there as most i'm sure have. Hes not fully recovered yet but the arthritis is so bad it will advance and will be painful for him to jump, specially as he gets older and hes only just turned 10 that joint with his hock arthritis. I've had the youngster 5 years too, hes been desensitized many times by professionals, hes a typical welshy. If you've owned one your know what they can be like. I've also had loading lessons and within a few days hes back to his antics, he even surprised one lady, I will see what the vet says and get someone out again.

I have lived with their quirks for years and just recently thought how nice it would be to have a easy horse I could have fun on now I'm at a nice yard with good facilities. They're like big pets and both loved very much, which is why i'd struggle to sell. Maybe thats wrong of me I apologize, I was posting wondered if people had been in a similar situation to me.



Funnily enough I did look into the driving side of it, I got my father to drive as well as a good friend who drive very very slowly to see if it was that, and it made 0 difference even in a different trailer (newer version) than mine

Ester, who do you recommend? I'm south west based.
That’s great, too many people just blame the horse :)
 

paddy555

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My youngster is just a little s**t. He use to travel fine then learnt his power as he grew older. Hes a full up 15.2 and even with a dually on will happily drag 4 people around.

.

and there you have described your loading problem. He has no respect for anyone and is not listening to you. Forget the loading and teach him some manners, groundwork, back, forward, turns on the forehand etc. Until he can do that, on your voice, and with only the lightest touch on the rope he is not going to listen to loading. Yes, I had a sec D so I know exactly what they are like and mine also was difficult at loading and a right little sod when he couldn't be bothered to listen. Funnily enough he was also foot perfect hacking but so spooky, we could turn through 180 degrees on a ride with no warning and he had to be introduced to every single sheep he saw. This was difficult as I ride through dozens of loose sheep on just about every ride. I think they are an acquired taste, one which I never acquired.

So if you cannot put up with it sell him, even tho you love him, as you clearly had people after him or really work hard with him. Mine never changed and it was a case of dealing with all that all the time of letting him go. I think that is the decision you have to make now as I doubt he is going to change his attitude.

Mine did better on long reins and I did use him on the harrows but I wouldn't have been happy driving out on the roads with the spookiness. It was too unpredictable
 

Pinkvboots

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It sounds like your Welsh needs a bit of ground work to improve his manners even just 15 minutes a day can really make a difference, if a horse doesn't respect you on the ground you will never get it to load properly.

Horses are never easy I have 2 one was lame just before Christmas, his fine now got on the other one yesterday and his not right now, story of my life never seem to have 2 in work.
 

Hormonal Filly

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and there you have described your loading problem. He has no respect for anyone and is not listening to you. Forget the loading and teach him some manners, groundwork, back, forward, turns on the forehand etc. Until he can do that, on your voice, and with only the lightest touch on the rope he is not going to listen to loading. Yes, I had a sec D so I know exactly what they are like and mine also was difficult at loading and a right little sod when he couldn't be bothered to listen. Funnily enough he was also foot perfect hacking but so spooky, we could turn through 180 degrees on a ride with no warning and he had to be introduced to every single sheep he saw. This was difficult as I ride through dozens of loose sheep on just about every ride. I think they are an acquired taste, one which I never acquired.

So if you cannot put up with it sell him, even tho you love him, as you clearly had people after him or really work hard with him. Mine never changed and it was a case of dealing with all that all the time of letting him go. I think that is the decision you have to make now as I doubt he is going to change his attitude.

Mine did better on long reins and I did use him on the harrows but I wouldn't have been happy driving out on the roads with the spookiness. It was too unpredictable

Very true, they are definitely a acquired taste and I've always said since day 1 of ownership i'd never buy another.

I'd agree, however he has good ground work and good respect for me on the ground, I can back him up on command, turn him etc he stands to be mounted, good to lead etc. His ground work goes out the window when a trailer is introduced and hes so powerful even in a dually I struggle to hold him being only a petite 5'3 lady i'm certain hes learnt that. A friend tried with natural horsemanship techniques, shes very strong (use to big horses) and was surprised by his strength. He was no better it seems the more you make him listen to you and respect you when hes annoyed, the worse he gets. She only used natural horsemanship techniques and I couldn't catch him for 2 days as he was in a grump, typical welsh attitude. Problem is he needs a professional man there all the time or he soon learns its me.
 

JulesRules

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You could have been me 12 months ago. I love my mare but didn't enjoy riding her and the thought of loading gave me a near anxiety attack so I just gave up trying.

12 months on and she is on loan to the local equestrian college. I have had help loading and even if she's still not easy at least I'm now confident to load her and have techniques to deal with her loading tricks. She comes home in the holidays and the time we have together then is quality time and I love having her back, even if collecting her and dropping her back off is a hassle.

I bought a highland in June. It's not all been smooth sailing but we are out competing regularly, I enjoy riding him and he's easy to take out on my own.

I guess my point is that there are options. If the horses can have a job look at options for loaning, sharing or selljng if thats right for you. Otherwise cheap grass livery.

There is always an answer. You just have to find it. Good luck x

PS meant to say sounds like you haven't had the right help with loading. I can't help in your area but I'm sure someone can.
 

milliepops

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I think you need to think a bit differently about the loading thing, you don't need a professional man, you don't need a natural horsemanship person, you just need someone who can truly read horses properly and sensitively and figure out what's going on, and then find a way to set you both up so you can learn to succeed together. Not win by strength, but help you and him to learn how to address the problem for the long term.
My welsh was an absolute horror to load when she arrived and I had no transport for the first 18 months so it was very hard to practice, but as soon as I could work on it daily we absolutely cracked the issues which were multifaceted and not just "she doesn't respect me"

she loads and travels easily now but you do still have to load her correctly *for her*, if someone just grabbed the rope and hoiked her up the ramp it would likely result in some undesirable behaviour. but she goes up first time, every time quite happily given her little routine and chance to agree to the task in hand. I think some horses need this kind of bespoke treatment.
 

ihatework

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TBH it sounds like you aren’t quite the right person for the Welshy, they aren’t for everyone, especially the trickier type. I’d sell
 

MotherOfChickens

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OP if you dont find anyone to help in your area, one approach that really helped with my last horse (who was seemingly entirely inconsistant in behaviour) was using Ben Hart's shaping plans. They work on learning theory and take a logical step by step approach (which is easy to forget when we aren't pros/dealing with lots of different horses regularly) and take the emotion/expectation out of events and I've found they work well. There's a specific loading one for £15 which you can download and once you've done a couple, its easy enough to write them for practically anything.

http://www.hartshorsemanship.com
 

paddy555

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Very true, they are definitely a acquired taste and I've always said since day 1 of ownership i'd never buy another.

very true. My solution was to chuck him out in the field for the next 15 years until he died aged 27 where he was blissfully happy and I only had to cuddle him when he came in. Everyone was happy. I went back to arabs which I could make sense of.
 

paddy555

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I think you need to think a bit differently about the loading thing, you don't need a professional man, you don't need a natural horsemanship person, you just need someone who can truly read horses properly and sensitively and figure out what's going on, and then find a way to set you both up so you can learn to succeed together. Not win by strength, but help you and him to learn how to address the problem for the long term.
My welsh was an absolute horror to load when she arrived and I had no transport for the first 18 months so it was very hard to practice, but as soon as I could work on it daily we absolutely cracked the issues which were multifaceted and not just "she doesn't respect me"

she loads and travels easily now but you do still have to load her correctly *for her*, if someone just grabbed the rope and hoiked her up the ramp it would likely result in some undesirable behaviour. but she goes up first time, every time quite happily given her little routine and chance to agree to the task in hand. I think some horses need this kind of bespoke treatment.

even though my welshy is long dead I was interested in your comments. How and what did you figure out was going on and how did you learn to succeed together? what is loading correctly for her?
 

milliepops

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Um... mine was thoroughly ruined by previous owners and then thrown out in the field for 3 years, and then gifted to me. Briefly..
it was clear that she had several issues, ranging from no proper ground education or consistent handling, very patchy ridden training, then kept on her own so mentally screwed up and had basically learnt to fend for herself which manifested itself in what appeared to be stubborn or rude behaviour. She was actually quite frightened and very on edge even though it didn't always show that way, just looked like she was bolshy, and what she actually needed was someone to trust, and to learn to concentrate rather than look for monsters. she was also claustrophobic and couldn't be stabled.

it took a while to unpick all this because she was really difficult to handle and nigh on impossible to ride! I had some help because I had 2 others on the go and didn't have enough time always to do what she needed. I was helped with other stuff by a really good horsewoman down the road who was exceptionally patient and interested in what made her tick, rather than just walloping her into submission, she agreed that even for a welshie she was a right weirdo.

but I did all the loading myself, this was at the point where she would do long rein hacking, I could ride her in the school and she was more or less behaving like a normal horse on the ground. principles were the same though, she had to concentrate and she had to trust me, and then she had to only move her feet when I wanted, which meant that if she went up the ramp she wasn't allowed to just sod off out of it when she fancied (that was one of her preferred moves) and most importantly we had to keep the adrenalin (hers and mine) at rock bottom all the time otherwise she would just erupt. I tried all the stuff like eating on the box etc but tbh she's not food motivated, it was never about that. She had to really engage with the task calmly and think about the instructions. Always more time than we need. Always more patient than I ever thought possible. I even have a baby voice that I talk to her in because you can't yell in baby talk! lol!

Correct loading for her now, is more or less the same. approach from a sensible angle, walk to the ramp together, concentrate on the inside of the box, calmly ask her to walk up... *wait* half a second for her to consider the question, i.e. release pressure on the rope, then up we go and it's time to go trucking.

Mine was 100% worth the effort and time, she's competing at Inter1 now eyeing up the top levels of dressage and I wouldn't be without her but she has been the most difficult horse I've ever owned, at times. I love her. She makes me a better rider and handler! not everyone would want the hassle though, and I would totally understand if OP didn't either.
 
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paddy555

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Um... mine was thoroughly ruined by previous owners and then thrown out in the field for 3 years, and then gifted to me. Briefly..
it was clear that she had several issues, ranging from no proper ground education or consistent handling, very patchy ridden training, then kept on her own so mentally screwed up and had basically learnt to fend for herself which manifested itself in what appeared to be stubborn or rude behaviour. She was actually quite frightened and very on edge even though it didn't always show that way, just looked like she was bolshy, and what she actually needed was someone to trust, and to learn to concentrate rather than look for monsters. she was also claustrophobic and couldn't be stabled.

it took a while to unpick all this because she was really difficult to handle and nigh on impossible to ride! I had some help because I had 2 others on the go and didn't have enough time always to do what she needed. I was helped with other stuff by a really good horsewoman down the road who was exceptionally patient and interested in what made her tick, rather than just walloping her into submission, she agreed that even for a welshie she was a right weirdo.

but I did all the loading myself, this was at the point where she would do long rein hacking, I could ride her in the school and she was more or less behaving like a normal horse on the ground. principles were the same though, she had to concentrate and she had to trust me, and then she had to only move her feet when I wanted, which meant that if she went up the ramp she wasn't allowed to just sod off out of it when she fancied (that was one of her preferred moves) and most importantly we had to keep the adrenalin (hers and mine) at rock bottom all the time otherwise she would just erupt. I tried all the stuff like eating on the box etc but tbh she's not food motivated, it was never about that. She had to really engage with the task calmly and think about the instructions. Always more time than we need. Always more patient than I ever thought possible. I even have a baby voice that I talk to her in because you can't yell in baby talk! lol!

Correct loading for her now, is more or less the same. approach from a sensible angle, walk to the ramp together, concentrate on the inside of the box, calmly ask her to walk up... *wait* half a second for her to consider the question, i.e. release pressure on the rope, then up we go and it's time to go trucking.

Mine was 100% worth the effort and time, she's competing at Inter1 now eyeing up the top levels of dressage and I wouldn't be without her but she has been the most difficult horse I've ever owned, at times. I love her. She makes me a better rider and handler! not everyone would want the hassle though, and I would totally understand if OP didn't either.

thanks for that, very interesting. Mine also came ruined to some extent, I think these "heavier" native types are easy to ruin as people assume they are too big and thick to be nervous. Mine was owned by a lady with cancer and she had to sell him. He adored her. He was very well broken and then the lady started riding him. They got as far as the cross roads, she indicated the direction and he said "no, can't be arsed" so she took him home. He kicked the stable door in the night and she got up and gave him choccy bics and he got choccy bics when she made morning coffee for the staff. No wonder he didn't want any another home, and we didn't have choccy bics.
He was then sold to a showing yard and returned to the lady. As I was struggling with him I rang the show yard. They remembered him well!. It was 2 grooms to go into the stable with him and he kicked the box to pieces. We didn't have that behaviour, I always felt safe with him.
The lady who had owned him wanted to keep in touch and came to visit him, I could hardly refuse as she died later of her illness. It made her so happy in her last few months and made the horse so disruptive afterwards. The only things mine liked apart from food was the long reins and his donkey.

You sound to have got on so well with yours, it's nice that she's rewarding your patience with her competing.
 

Goldenstar

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Bad loaders need to to be loaded daily until you have it fixed .
I hope the cob is ok when the vet comes .
If he’s fine why not get a freelancer to ride him several times a week and you ride as well , nothing works better work for welshies .
 
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