Feeling like I'm on a capitalist treadmill

[Deltofe2493]

You know, you don't have to have kids.
Do you really want them, or do you just think that's what you have to do next according to the prescribed Lifescript™ ?

Embrace the DINK Life! (Double Income No Kids)

I think I had a bit of a day the other day I am broody and want a family etc but I always like to think things through thoroughly before I make any rash decisions.

And sometimes I think things through so much I put myself off. Which is what I have done now . I am not ready to give up part of me or my body, I do want at least one and like someone else said don't leave it too late but am only 28 so still a few years yet. BUT I have it in mind and now know to start saving a bit more aside just in case the day comes and we are READY ready. And a sharer best way to go.

Really do need to appreciate my life more and where I am, DINK, playing ponies near enough every day and travelling to diff countries with work etc. It's a nice life. What am I worrying about haha. Things will happen when they happen at the right time.

Someone at work was 38 when they had their first and they wish they did it sooner, as they only have one and would like more but can't as 41 now, which is what got me thinking.

 

[Tarragon]

I was 35 when I had my first baby, and 39 3/4 when I had my last!

 

[Deltofe2493]

Megan Markle was 36 when she met her prince and settled down! My boss was mid thirties as she put her career first, then had her baby and she manages to put her girl in private school - definitely pros and cons to both!

I honestly don't know where this broodiness has come from because I always said when I have children I want to be able to give them a comfortable life and also when I feel ready to give up part of my life and I've done things I want to do and go on holidays etc, which I wouldn't be able to do at the moment without sacrificing those things, so if that means waiting a few more years then so be it.

 

[conniegirl]

I was 35 when i had my first. Really would like another but had a very difficult and high risk pregnancy so need to decide if i want to put myself through that again and when. Doctors have advised at least 2 years before i try for another

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

My old boss was 48 when she had her first... went abroad for IVF I believe. Where there's a will, there's a way - if one desires that is.

 

[texenstar]

so I am a few steps ahead of you at the minute... worked on my career to get to a good salary, bought a house with my partner a couple of years ago and now I am 6 months pregnant with my first The main difference is that I am lucky enough to have my horses on my own land so it is easier in that asepct but I was paying livery for two up until 2 years ago (also £600 per month for one horse seeems like a lot! I paid less than that for two on DIY)

At the end of the day, if you want kids and a horse then you can! it might take a bit of shifting around and it might be hard work but if it's what you want then surely it is worth it. Life is for living after all do what you want and make it work

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

(also £600 per month for one horse seeems like a lot! I paid less than that for two on DIY)

I'm not sure where you are in the country, but assuming OP is on part livery this is an incredibly good price for London/South East. You won't find a yard near me for less unless you're missing facilities, and most are more around the £750pcm mark.

 

[texenstar]

I'm not sure where you are in the country, but assuming OP is on part livery this is an incredibly good price for London/South East. You won't find a yard near me for less unless you're missing facilities, and most are more around the £750pcm mark.

Good point! I am up in Cumbria so probably a fair bit cheaper than near London

 

[Deltofe2493]

I am in South East, not quite London but still pretty pricey. For the care she receives and the facilities it is very good, I have rang around but as Ashetland says, they're all £700+, or they sound reasonable but then have to buy own bedding and feed and other little add ons so starts adding up. There was one place about 15 mins from me which was £650 per month but walker would be an additional cost which is ridic if you're paying that much, whereas it is included in the price at current yard, as well as the solarium. I know some places you need to put money in a meter to get the lights working in the schools. I like just knowing my one payment covers everything.

The only place cheaper is a local riding school which is an option when they have space (as much as I love my yard, i would be saving almost £200 a month). @texenstar if you feel comfortable, can I please be nosey and ask what you considered a 'good' salary when you knew you were saving for house /babies etc?

 

[Nasicus]

I honestly don't know where this broodiness has come from

Hormones.
Every living thing is wired to want to reproduce. From the smallest cell to the biggest of mammals. We as humans also have the lovely added bonus of societal pressure too, and us women of a certain age (I'm 28 too) are bombarded from all angles about how we should be popping sprogs left and right before it's too late and we end up as but withered childless husks.

I'm strictly childfree by choice, I have felt that way since I was little and have never wavered on that opinion. Yet, I know that there will likely come a time where my traitorous ovaries are driven by biology to try convince me that I totally want to up-end my entire life and commit to the 24/7 365 job of trying to raise a tiny human, assuming it doesn't kill me to grow and birth it in the first place. I like to think I will be of sound enough mind to ignore the calling when it happens, lord knows I've woken in a panic many times, having dreamt I was either pregnant or a parent.

It sounds like you've got the right idea though, put the money aside, but don't think about it too much. If in a few years time, you're both still keen on the idea and in a position to have a kid, then good for you! If you find that actually, the urge has passed, then hey, you've got a nice little savings pot to go on one heck of holiday

 

[FlyingCircus]

I would reassess your budgets and salary regardless - your current ratios are wild. Add a child into the mix and I suspect you will struggle.

32k is ~2k a month after tax. You're spending more than 30% of this on your horse.

A standard ratio people use in budgeting is 20-30-50.

So per month this is:
20% savings (£400)
30% rent/mortgage (£600)
50% everything else (food, petrol, insurances, car, council tax, beauty, leisure, etc, etc) (£1000)

Your percentage of "leisure" spend on your horse is more likely around 35% when you account for extras (farrier, vet, wormer, etc). That leaves you with 15% (£300) for everything else.

 

[Winters100]

My old boss was 48 when she had her first... went abroad for IVF I believe. Where there's a will, there's a way - if one desires that is.

This is really dangerous advice. It gets much more difficult to have a successful pregnancy as you get older, and even with IVF your old boss would be the exception and not the rule. If you want children you should not rely on being able to do so in your 40s, or even in the latter part of your 30s. That is not to say that it is impossible, but many many people have problems, and of these a good percentage will never succeed. You are just wrong when you say 'where there is a will there is a way', in many cases there is not a way, no matter how heartbroken you are or how much you spend. Starting from age 36 I spent well into 6 figures on treatment, saw the best specialists both in the UK and the US, had multiple rounds of IVF over a 10 year period using both my own and donated eggs, and no baby at the end of it (my kids are not biologically mine). I was pregnant many times, but lost them, most at quite early stages, but twice much later. It is the one thing that I bitterly regret, that I was so arrogant to think that I would be able to find a solution, and that I could focus on my business and still have a baby later on.

If you want a child do not believe this misinformation, some women are lucky and able to have successful pregnancies later in life, but many are not.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

This is really dangerous advice. It gets much more difficult to have a successful pregnancy as you get older, and even with IVF your old boss would be the exception and not the rule. If you want children you should not rely on being able to do so in your 40s, or even in the latter part of your 30s. That is not to say that it is impossible, but many many people have problems, and of these a good percentage will never succeed. You are just wrong when you say 'where there is a will there is a way', in many cases there is not a way, no matter how heartbroken you are or how much you spend. Starting from age 36 I spent well into 6 figures on treatment, saw the best specialists both in the UK and the US, had multiple rounds of IVF over a 10 year period using both my own and donated eggs, and no baby at the end of it (my kids are not biologically mine). I was pregnant many times, but lost them, most at quite early stages, but twice much later. It is the one thing that I bitterly regret, that I was so arrogant to think that I would be able to find a solution, and that I could focus on my business and still have a baby later on.

If you want a child do not believe this misinformation, some women are lucky and able to have successful pregnancies later in life, but many are not.

Apologies that my phrasing has upset you, it was not my intention and upon reflection I can see how it would read. I was more meaning to support another posters statement that it is sometimes possible to conceive if you're over 35.
I should have caveated my post by saying that it was not a recommendation but purely a statement of what happened, I know very little about pregnancy and IVF etc.

 

[Deltofe2493]

I would reassess your budgets and salary regardless - your current ratios are wild. Add a child into the mix and I suspect you will struggle.

32k is ~2k a month after tax. You're spending more than 30% of this on your horse.

A standard ratio people use in budgeting is 20-30-50.

So per month this is:
20% savings (£400)
30% rent/mortgage (£600)
50% everything else (food, petrol, insurances, car, council tax, beauty, leisure, etc, etc) (£1000)

Your percentage of "leisure" spend on your horse is more likely around 35% when you account for extras (farrier, vet, wormer, etc). That leaves you with 15% (£300) for everything else.

something I didn't want to hear but needed to hear.

I am fortunate living with parents means my rent is reduced to 200 a month. Where I used to live in london my rent was 550, plus 200 commuting costs and I was on a lesser salary then. So the way I see it these costs are similar so if I managed then I can manage now.

My car is a pile of sh**, so petrol / road tax / insurance is reasonable. Once we've done the food shop I honestly don't know where my money goes?? No matter how hard I try to track it just disappears! I am saving 4-500 a month. Working weekends helps too, I take an extra 3-400. But again, where does this go!!!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

My car is a pile of sh**, so petrol / road tax / insurance is reasonable. Once we've done the food shop I honestly don't know where my money goes?? No matter how hard I try to track it just disappears! I am saving 4-500 a month. Working weekends helps too, I take an extra 3-400. But again, where does this go!!!

Draw out a weekly budget in cash and leave the rest at home. You cannot spend what you don't have with you.

 

[Deltofe2493]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Notebook-L...pY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

I need to get myself one of these just been too lazy to order.

 

[supagran]

Me & OH are living with parents and saving for a property and we are on track due to have a deposit together by end of the year.

I have found my self super broody recently. Once we have the home then I am thinking we can think about starting a family of our own.

Why do I always feel like I am on a hamster wheel working for the next stage? Just under a year ago I was aiming to be on the salary I am now, and now I am looking for ways to achieve my next pay grade. I've bought a horse last year which is something I've dreamed of since I was 12, but now I am looking into pregnancy and next stages of life. Is this normal??? Why can I not just chill out for a few months at least?? I'm the same with the horse, once I've done one comp I'm always like ok when's the next what else can we do etc I stress myself out.

Anyway, my questions are how have others in this situation:

a) manage their time with a newborn.

b) manage finances. My livery is £600 per month, then intermittent maintenance costs i.e. full set of shoes, dentist, back etc

c) dealt with not riding/gentle riding for 9 months?

d) thoughts on sharers.. so hard to trust they will take the correct care, and also find someone who will be long term

My annual salary is 32k per year and he on 35, but statutory maternity pay works out around £600 per month which just about covers livery costs! Me & OH both work in pub / bar at weekends but I would not get SMP from this pub job. He takes in an additional £1200 per month. I would need to ask HR dept. for their mat leave policy but I think it is 6 weeks full pay then the rest on stat.

I would feel terrible for OH to fund my oversized dog for 6 months whilst on mat. leave, on top of that he would have to cover the mortgage, bills etc and I know this is something he and I would have to sit down and properly discuss when we are truly ready, but has anyone else's OH been kind enough to cover for them? Or do you save a bit knowing you will be off for a few months? Looking at options I'd be tempted to go back to my full time job asap just to earn the money.

People are saying if you wait to afford children you will never have them, and you make it work... thoughts and advice please!

Sorry, but I've not read all the replies.
As on "older" horse owner - unless your OH is a farmer or has their own land, my advice would be to get your house, and enjoy the time you and OH spend together before embarking on the lifelong commitment to offspring. It will be a major change for you both to be on your own, and you should treasure those times together - believe me once children arrive on the scene life will never be the same again (not that I'm saying don't have them!).

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Notebook-Loose-Leaf-Envelope-Stickers-Envelopes/dp/B09F8TPXQ5/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=32KFBG3812HE2&keywords=budget+envelopes&qid=1642691335&sprefix=budget+en,aps,76&sr=8-3-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzS1lDWTdETVBWMTA5JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzc2MDc1MUE0REFFR0ROQThENCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDY2Nzg1MUFKUTgyUVhFTUw5TCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

I need to get myself one of these just been too lazy to order.

I use cash envelopes, it's literally changed my life financially. You don't have to jump in with both feet if you think you'll find it tedious. You could try just withdrawing what you want/have to spend that week and then get some of these and keep them in your purse (https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/108...allery-1-1&organic_search_click=1&frs=1&pop=1). I have one for groceries, date night/socialising & miscellanous. I also have lots of sinking funds for things I need to save up for annually but that's a bit more faff.

 

[Annagain]

I've chosen not to have kids but have seen friends go through it all. I'm normally very much of the opinion that you're never ready and you never have enough money to have a kid so if you want to and it's not going to totally cripple you financially, then do it.

However, in your case I think I would wait a while as there are so many factors involved and every single one would be affected. The fact you're both working effectively 7 days a week and living with parents just to save for a deposit is the biggest one - you might get maternity pay and be able to return to work quickly but childcare will eat a lot of that salary and make the bar work impossible for one of you as it won't pay enough to make childcare worth it even if you can find childcare for weekend evenings. This means your disposable income will drop significantly. Also, how will you have any time as a family if one of you is working 7 days a week to afford it? Even if you have the house and are no longer saving for a deposit, I imagine your mortgage payments will be fairly hefty and you'll be using the money you were saving for deposit on the mortgage so you won't actually be any better off financially. It actually makes me really sad that even before you're pregnant you're already planning to go back to work asap to be able to afford the baby. A friend did the same when her kids were 6 weeks old. It's her biggest regret.

Then there's the horse. Part livery is great if you have a baby as you know the horse will be looked after but it's expensive. You could go to DIY but then you'll struggle for time and if you have a baby emergency, how will you make sure the horse is cared for - or vice versa. She doesn't sound like an easy horse so a sharer might be tricky. I've had great sharers over the years but my old boy was a very shareable horse - incredibly easy to care for and great to hack. Even novices could ride him if they were confident. He was bombproof but just needed reminding who was in charge of the speed at times.

I think in your shoes, I'd enjoy your horse for a few years, work hard, save as much as you can and if a promotion comes your way (which would be great) immediately save the extra money, putting it into savings on payday. You're doing without it now so you can do without it then. In 2 or 3 years' time look at it again. Hopefully with your horse a bit older and calmer she'd be easier to find a sharer (or even a loaner) for. Hopefully you might have got some of the competing bug out of your system (I used to compete a lot, I've lost interest entirely now) so you won't feel like you're missing that so much.

Whatever you decide, good luck with it all.

 

[holeymoley]

I've done it. But it wasn't planned. I have no idea where we would be if it was planned! I had full time work and managed to cut the hours after having baby 1. Husband worked full time which covered the house bills, my mat pay covered the livery(diy). I went back to work after the 9 months. We had another baby 3 years later and I done the same. It's only now that the kids are of school & nursery age (7 & 4) that I've gone back to proper full time salaried work. Horse-wise I was exceptionally lucky in that my gelding is very calm and laid back, he's really good around children. We worked it that husband watched kids or my mother watched them for the 1-2 hours I had to attend yard. Or basically they got strapped to me if they had to come with!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Caveat with I know nothing about raising a child, but can you not just chuck them in a baby sling thing while you're at the yard? That's what Amanda Owen said she did with hers when she was working on her sizeable farm, on the front when very young and on the back when older, and would certainly make balancing horses and baby easier in terms of doing chores etc.

A lady at my old yard put hers in baby seat with door open and parked next to the arena to ride, or in wheelbarrow or buggy if it's warm enough

 

[holeymoley]

Caveat with I know nothing about raising a child, but can you not just chuck them in a baby sling thing while you're at the yard? That's what Amanda Owen said she did with hers when she was working on her sizeable farm, on the front when very young and on the back when older, and would certainly make balancing horses and baby easier in terms of doing chores etc.

A lady at my old yard put hers in baby seat with door open and parked next to the arena to ride, or in wheelbarrow or buggy if it's warm enough

There's a few things you can do, depends on yard logistics and the child. I've done slings, while walking to the field -worked okay but quite a work out for your back, I suppose it depends how well recovered you are after birth. Prams- worked okay providing kid is happy to stay in pram which is not always the case, and the set up of your yard. Can't really have a pram in a corridor or anywhere others need to walk through. Have also done baby swing.... again a bit like the pram situation. And then as they get older they can stay in the car

ETA if you have a super kid friendly livery lady then you're on to a winner there too. Luckily mine have always attracted the attention of one who has been happy to entertain for 5-10mins and it takes a bit of pressure off. They are very hard to come by though, generally horsey-folk aren't kid lovers! I wouldn't say I am, but they are my own!

 

[Deltofe2493]

There's a few things you can do, depends on yard logistics and the child. I've done slings, while walking to the field -worked okay but quite a work out for your back, I suppose it depends how well recovered you are after birth. Prams- worked okay providing kid is happy to stay in pram which is not always the case, and the set up of your yard. Can't really have a pram in a corridor or anywhere others need to walk through. Have also done baby swing.... again a bit like the pram situation. And then as they get older they can stay in the car

ETA if you have a super kid friendly livery lady then you're on to a winner there too. Luckily mine have always attracted the attention of one who has been happy to entertain for 5-10mins and it takes a bit of pressure off. They are very hard to come by though, generally horsey-folk aren't kid lovers! I wouldn't say I am, but they are my own!

this is why I think if I move to a riding school there might be other mums in a similar boat who would be happy to hold for a while etc.

whereas I’m on a ‘competition’ yard at the moment where everyone is mid 20s so might suit my situation better.

 

[FlyingCircus]

something I didn't want to hear but needed to hear.

I am fortunate living with parents means my rent is reduced to 200 a month. Where I used to live in london my rent was 550, plus 200 commuting costs and I was on a lesser salary then. So the way I see it these costs are similar so if I managed then I can manage now.

My car is a pile of sh**, so petrol / road tax / insurance is reasonable. Once we've done the food shop I honestly don't know where my money goes?? No matter how hard I try to track it just disappears! I am saving 4-500 a month. Working weekends helps too, I take an extra 3-400. But again, where does this go!!!

You won't be living with your parents forever though. I'm same age as you and my mortgage on a modest 3 bed on the South Coast is 1200 a month, which I split with my other half. So £200 is quite different to £600! Then there is the council tax which is £200 a month, electric, gas, water...it all adds up!

In your shoes I'd find a cheaper yard (do you really need part livery?), get a sharer and look at job prospects. There are loads of jobs out there at the moment, it would be worth having a look around to see if your skills are transferable to other higher paid industries.

 

[TGM]

Caveat with I know nothing about raising a child, but can you not just chuck them in a baby sling thing while you're at the yard? That's what Amanda Owen said she did with hers when she was working on her sizeable farm, on the front when very young and on the back when older, and would certainly make balancing horses and baby easier in terms of doing chores etc.

A lady at my old yard put hers in baby seat with door open and parked next to the arena to ride, or in wheelbarrow or buggy if it's warm enough

I tried the baby sling route to start, but I am quite small and had a big baby and it was a killer for my back and neck! I found doing stuff that required bending over (such as mucking out or picking out hooves) particularly challenging. I then opted for the pram/buggy scenario which was better but I had my horses at home which meant I could tailor things to make sure it was safe. Having a buggy/pram sat on a public livery yard where people are bringing horses in and out all the time can be a bit of a worry if a horse was to get loose for some reason. A car is better if the yard layout allows you to park near to the area you will be working in. The way the yard is set out and the type/number of other horses and owners will make a huge difference to how easy it is to bring baby along. If you have a long walk from the turnout to the fields, or have to walk down a road to the fields would make life more difficult, for example.

The type of baby you end up with will make a difference too, and you can't predict what that will be. I was lucky that mine was a good sleeper and went a reasonable amount of time between feeds. But if you have a colicky one, or a premature one that needs very frequent feeding you may find it much harder. By the time you have fed, changed the nappy, got your baby stuff together and got to the yard, you might be halfway to the field and the baby is screaming to be fed again! And feeding can take forever when they are really young. If your baby is a bad sleeper and/or colicky then you may feel rubbish in the morning and it may take all your energy just to get the basics done.

I don't mean to be too negative, but it does help to think about these things in advance, so you can have some answers to the 'what ifs'. Family help close by would be a huge positive, as even if family are not horsey, if they can mind the baby for an hour or two if you need it. Or a partner who works from home, or doesn't have to work long hours or do a long commute, so they can be around to have the baby so you can pop to the yard in the early morning or the evening. Everyone's circumstances as different and whether the whole baby/horse scenario will work depends on so many different factors.

 

[Annagain]

There's a few things you can do, depends on yard logistics and the child. I've done slings, while walking to the field -worked okay but quite a work out for your back, I suppose it depends how well recovered you are after birth. Prams- worked okay providing kid is happy to stay in pram which is not always the case, and the set up of your yard. Can't really have a pram in a corridor or anywhere others need to walk through. Have also done baby swing.... again a bit like the pram situation. And then as they get older they can stay in the car

ETA if you have a super kid friendly livery lady then you're on to a winner there too. Luckily mine have always attracted the attention of one who has been happy to entertain for 5-10mins and it takes a bit of pressure off. They are very hard to come by though, generally horsey-folk aren't kid lovers! I wouldn't say I am, but they are my own!

This is all great until the baby's ill or the horse cuts itself or gets colic and needs an emergency vet appointment in sub-zero temperatures. Of course OHs and family are there to support but may not always be able to if you are the primary carer and the need for their input isn't anticipated.

 

[Deltofe2493]

You won't be living with your parents forever though. I'm same age as you and my mortgage on a modest 3 bed on the South Coast is 1200 a month, which I split with my other half. So £200 is quite different to £600! Then there is the council tax which is £200 a month, electric, gas, water...it all adds up!

In your shoes I'd find a cheaper yard (do you really need part livery?), get a sharer and look at job prospects. There are loads of jobs out there at the moment, it would be worth having a look around to see if your skills are transferable to other higher paid industries.

I do at the minute as my work is very demanding and includes international travel every month or so, plus late nights at the pub would just be too much for me, and also actually be able to ride and spend quality time with OH.

Industry doesn’t pay too well but I’ve studied and worked so hard to be where I am and I really enjoy what I do, so I would hate for my time to be wasted. I’m going to level up my skills this year and ask for a raise next year, then if I can’t just find another job around the 35k mark, it’s definitely manageable, just have to find the right company.

I promise you I’m not being difficult, just very stuck in my ways trying to navigate through this without too much having to change. So pleased I posted as it’s put so much into perspective!

 

[Widgeon]

It is the one thing that I bitterly regret, that I was so arrogant to think that I would be able to find a solution, and that I could focus on my business and still have a baby later on.

I just didn't want to read this and run (so to speak) - was it really "arrogance" though? Or was it at least partly due to the enormous and difficult combination of social and economic pressures that cause so many women to wait to have babies? It may have turned out to be a decision that didn't give you the desired outcome, but as someone who doesn't (yet) have children it sounds like you're being very hard on yourself and I'm not sure that's entirely fair. None of us make our decisions in a vacuum.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Edit: wrong thread

 

[blitznbobs]

Hormones.
Every living thing is wired to want to reproduce. From the smallest cell to the biggest of mammals. We as humans also have the lovely added bonus of societal pressure too, and us women of a certain age (I'm 28 too) are bombarded from all angles about how we should be popping sprogs left and right before it's too late and we end up as but withered childless husks.

I'm strictly childfree by choice, I have felt that way since I was little and have never wavered on that opinion. Yet, I know that there will likely come a time where my traitorous ovaries are driven by biology to try convince me that I totally want to up-end my entire life and commit to the 24/7 365 job of trying to raise a tiny human, assuming it doesn't kill me to grow and birth it in the first place. I like to think I will be of sound enough mind to ignore the calling when it happens, lord knows I've woken in a panic many times, having dreamt I was either pregnant or a parent.

Have you ever tried ignoring the fact you are hungry???? How long did you keep that up? It seriously is worse than being hungry when your hormones take hold — its not really a choice anymore so I hope, if you are that set against kids you never get the urge .