Feet help/ideas please

Michen

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Shoes came off youngster about 8/9 weeks ago now. Contracted heels, awful frogs. Walked out of shoes and was pretty rock crunching up until about 2/3 weeks ago where he got footy on the roads and stones (doing lots of long reining hacking). So started booting in front with scoot boots and pads but still a bit footy tbh on stones only so have kept off anything other than grass, though the scoots do have very soft flexible soles which I know has been an issue for other horses.

He is now so footy on stones to get from field to stable I am actually really concerned, he's crippled on them. He's totally fine on grass despite hard ground, mostly fine on concrete except where it's got little stones on it too. He got trimmed yesterday (and is no worse or better today) and unfortunately before I could say anything the farrier trimmed his frog.. more than I'd have liked... but I'm not actually too upset about that as I've also been battling thrush and I do think that it's easier when you can make sure you can really get in there. Farrier did comment how flat footed he is.

He is not overweight but could easily become so. His feet are cool, he has no pulses. He's on a handful of straw chaff and Equimins advanced complete pellets (for the last few weeks), and salt. He's stabled 12 hours on soaked hay and in a field overnight. The thrush has been persistent but I'm about to receive a cleantrax solution which I'm going to try.

I am just really worried as to why, even with the thrush, he's suddenly SO footy. The thrush isn't a new thing so I can't understand why it would be that. His feet aren't overly worn down (they needed a light trim). He doesn't have any lami symptoms. Could it still be grass? I'm going to keep him in for a couple of days and see if it helps but it seems strange when the feet are cool with no pulses.

Am considering purchasing a muzzle.

Any suggestions welcome. I'm really tempted to try front shoes on him frankly but I would rather get his feet in better condition first before he's shod potentially for a large proportion of his life.
 

IrishMilo

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What did the farrier say about sole depth?

Mine's barefoot with thin soles. He's not overweight either but it's a constant battle to keep it that way. The field he's in has virtually no grass, and what is in there is scorched off and he's still maintaining rather than losing! Mine can be footy occasionally but he generally crunches OK. I do notice a slight variation when the spring grass starts coming through though - at that point he gets taken off grass completely.
 

Myloubylou

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I read, possibly on here, that when taking horses barefoot they can go footy after a couple of months as feet start adjusting shape. I had to shoe front feet on my mare as she didn’t have enough horn to be comfortable. At start of pandemic I took them off (about year after initial shoeing). Seems to be doing ok through she’s due to be trimmed on Friday

eta I also supplement with magox which with salt seems to prevent footiness. Also muzzle
 

Michen

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What did the farrier say about sole depth?

He didn't really comment other than that he was a bit flat footed, which I guess would indicate thin soles. In my (admittedly limited) experience of horses with very thin soles they don't tend to walk out of shoes happily for 6 weeks or so though... they tend to be sore very quickly!
 

Michen

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I read, possibly on here, that when taking horses barefoot they can go footy after a couple of months as feet start adjusting shape. I had to shoe front feet on my mare as she didn’t have enough horn to be comfortable. At start of pandemic I took them off (about year after initial shoeing). Seems to be doing ok through she’s due to be trimmed on Friday

eta I also supplement with magox which with salt seems to prevent footiness. Also muzzle

Yes me too...although I guess I wasn't expecting such extreme footiness on stones.. more a "bit of" a change..
 

DirectorFury

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I think ester has posted before about feet ‘waking up’ and becoming sore at the 6 week mark so hopefully she’ll be along soon.

Mine has thin soles and I couldn’t get barefoot to work for us. It could’ve worked if I’d had access to completely grass free turnout but that’s not an option round here. We also had feet seeming amazing for the first 3-4 weeks then everything went rapidly downhill.
 

IrishMilo

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He didn't really comment other than that he was a bit flat footed, which I guess would indicate thin soles. In my (admittedly limited) experience of horses with very thin soles they don't tend to walk out of shoes happily for 6 weeks or so though... they tend to be sore very quickly!

I've found it depends on the conditions and diet a lot. Winter/wet weather is the worst for thin/retracted soles. Mine is definitely better in periods of prolonged dry weather + minimal starch/sugar.
 

Michen

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I think ester has posted before about feet ‘waking up’ and becoming sore at the 6 week mark so hopefully she’ll be along soon.

Mine has thin soles and I couldn’t get barefoot to work for us. It could’ve worked if I’d had access to completely grass free turnout but that’s not an option round here. We also had feet seeming amazing for the first 3-4 weeks then everything went rapidly downhill.

Hmmm. That's my worry I guess. I am not set on him being barefoot, I only took the shoes off as his feet weren't in a great state when I got him and I wanted to improve them before he was shod. That said, although he's footy and the frogs are a work in progress, they are hugely better in shape. I'd have liked the back of his hoof to be more developed before shoeing him but it has im

ETA also I need to consider he is a young, willing little horse and I don't want to risk working him if he's slightly sore (as in, if he improves and seems fine but actually is still a bit sore), I don't want to risk souring him. And of course if he's footy I can't work him he gets fatter.. etc etc.

PITA!
 

Michen

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You could boot for turnout for a bit? In dry conditions like now, I can boot up in Cavallo treks for 22 hours per day. They don’t rub or twist. I spray with sole cleanse before putting the boots on, and it’s kept thrush at bay.


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I could but he’s fine turned out bar 50 metres of stone coming in. I’d also like to fix why he’s so footy, rather than just boot it or shoe it away!
 

Michen

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Fair enough, but if he’s got bruised thin soles then booting him for turnout for a bit allows the bruising to settle down without keeping him in.

I’m not sure what the benefit is of booting him on a surface he’s comfy on though? I could boot him to bring him in to protect him from the stones on the walk.

I’d still like to get to the bottom of why he suddenly has bruised thin soles if that’s what the issue is, I must be missing something and can only assume dietary.

Keeping him in was just to rule out grass as a culprit
 

emilylou

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First thing I’d do is turn out and give a few weeks off
Then I’d get front feet XR, use red horse hoof products to get rid of the thrush, keep turned out on comfortable surfaces- long grass, arena etc until he gets some decent foot growth. 8-9 weeks is perfect amount of time for hoof to wear down and low level bruising to become more prominent. Paired with hard ground and lack of hoof growth due to little grass it makes sense to me.
But I’d want to spend the money on front feet xr just to be sure if I was really worried. They are useful for a decent farrier to trim accordingly even if they don’t show anything else
 
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SEL

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My 10yo never been shod rock cruncher was footy on stones for 2 weeks this month. She's on pretty much a grass free turnout, no pulses, feet cool - I have literally no idea what caused except our ground is like concrete.

If he's tiptoeing over stones then he's probably feeling his feet on general hard ground too, its just easier than stones. I'd probably shoe!
 

Michen

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First thing I’d do is turn out and give a few weeks off
Then I’d get front feet XR, use red horse hoof products to get rid of the thrush, keep turned out on comfortable surfaces- long grass, arena etc until he gets some decent foot growth. 8-9 weeks is perfect amount of time for hoof to wear down and low level bruising to become more prominent. Paired with hard ground and lack of hoof growth due to little grass it makes sense to me.
But I’d want to spend the money on front feet xr just to be sure if I was really worried. They are useful for a decent farrier to trim accordingly even if they don’t show anything else

His hoof hasn’t worn down though, it’s been growing nicely, was self trimming a bit on roads and just needed a little trim yesterday.it also never broke at all, the nail holes grew out fine so the horn is obviously strong as he didn’t have a single chip. His hooves weren’t in absolute perfect balance but it was very, very minor and he’s a young horse whose consistently under saddle (rather- working!) for the first time.

I think I’d need to be a little more convinced something was truly wrong to go down the route of x rays, he did not come out of shoes sore. I would have been worried if he’d been immediately crippled without them.

I am also not inclined to turn out a Young greedy native that will very quickly become fat with no work Whatsoever at this point. There isn’t an option for a smaller barer field (he’s on the barest but it’s ex dairy pasture so never ideal).
 
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AnShanDan

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It's def. true that the feet can be kind of numb in shoes and it takes a few weeks for the blood supply etc. to change and then they can "feel" their feet more.

Why not just put boots on to go to the field and back? Otherwise, even the 50m would perhaps set off enough minor bruising to perpetuate the issue.
 

Michen

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It's def. true that the feet can be kind of numb in shoes and it takes a few weeks for the blood supply etc. to change and then they can "feel" their feet more.

Why not just put boots on to go to the field and back? Otherwise, even the 50m would perhaps set off enough minor bruising to perpetuate the issue.

Yep I can do that or tbh can change my route to make it about 2 metres and then grass and concrete no issue. Even then though, I’m not keen on him being so sore for any number of metres, so may well do the above regardless.


Would just like to know how to fix it! Million dollar question.
 

paddy555

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Shoes came off youngster about 8/9 weeks ago now. Contracted heels, awful frogs. Walked out of shoes and was pretty rock crunching up until about 2/3 weeks ago where he got footy on the roads and stones (doing lots of long reining hacking). So started booting in front with scoot boots and pads but still a bit footy tbh on stones only so have kept off anything other than grass, though the scoots do have very soft flexible soles which I know has been an issue for other horses.

I don't think being rock crunching just out of shoes has much relevance. Horses have lots of differing reactions when de shod. It doesn't show what the longer term situation will be.

I would be looking at a) you have simply done too much with him, lots of long reining hacking on roads and stones. That I would think is your most likely answer. ie too much too soon for feet that were poor and perhaps not as good as your first impressions.
b) boots that are not thick enough in the sole.

c) not having any back boots on (I don't think you mentioned them?)

If I wanted to keep him without shoes I would change the make of boots and boot all 4. Gloves have good thick soles as do renegades. Then work him and think about barefoot at some date in the future.

The soles could be bruised from too much work and as the pain goes he may well become OK over stones to your field.
 

Michen

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I don't think being rock crunching just out of shoes has much relevance. Horses have lots of differing reactions when de shod. It doesn't show what the longer term situation will be.

I would be looking at a) you have simply done too much with him, lots of long reining hacking on roads and stones. That I would think is your most likely answer. ie too much too soon for feet that were poor and perhaps not as good as your first impressions.
b) boots that are not thick enough in the sole.

c) not having any back boots on (I don't think you mentioned them?)

If I wanted to keep him without shoes I would change the make of boots and boot all 4. Gloves have good thick soles as do renegades. Then work him and think about barefoot at some date in the future.

The soles could be bruised from too much work and as the pain goes he may well become OK over stones to your field.

Quite possibly. I kept such a close eye on him though, he was booted at the first sign of any footiness.

Haven’t booted Hinds, they are in great nick, but worth a try for sure.

I was thinking of ordering some cavallos for now and putting the scoots on the hinds.
 

Pinkvboots

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It sounds like thin soles one of mine was exactly the same after taking shoes off and it's been a long 9 months of boots and controlled exercise, he is finally now comfortable but hard stony ground is still an issue but I can get by and avoid it, I would have put his shoes back on but he can't take them being banged on hence why I wanted him barefoot, I know my horse had some issues as his feet were x rayed and it was the only problem I had.

I would say it is a hard slog so you might be better of putting shoes back on just so you can crack on, one thing I will say is my horse had such convex soles to start with so he was basically walking on them as the hoof wall was rubbish, they are so much better now though totally different feet so it just depends if you want to persevere.
 

paddy555

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Quite possibly. I kept such a close eye on him though, he was booted at the first sign of any footiness.

Haven’t booted Hinds, they are in great nick, but worth a try for sure.

I was thinking of ordering some cavallos for now and putting the scoots on the hinds.

I'm sure you've been very careful :) The thing is that when they start showing signs of footiness they could already be bruised ie. too late.

I think yours is a very common problem. I took lots barefoot long before boots were ever available. Now I always boot them immediately and think about going barefoot several months down the line. I have found you get there quicker in the end, there are no set backs so you can still ride and the horse is comfy. Lots of people criticise that approach and say they don't need boots but by doing it my horses are never sore.

Copper sulphate (about £12 or so at Mole valley) works well on thrush. Either put it in a soaking boot or just clean the frog and brush it into the central sulchus and grooves. A lot less messy than clean trax :D
 

Michen

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I'm sure you've been very careful :) The thing is that when they start showing signs of footiness they could already be bruised ie. too late.

I think yours is a very common problem. I took lots barefoot long before boots were ever available. Now I always boot them immediately and think about going barefoot several months down the line. I have found you get there quicker in the end, there are no set backs so you can still ride and the horse is comfy. Lots of people criticise that approach and say they don't need boots but by doing it my horses are never sore.

Copper sulphate (about £12 or so at Mole valley) works well on thrush. Either put it in a soaking boot or just clean the frog and brush it into the central sulchus and grooves. A lot less messy than clean trax :D

Yup. Bummer!

Ive been using CS. Do you brush yours on dry though? I have mixed mine with water.
 

DabDab

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I agree with p555, I think it is probably just a case of a bit too much too soon.

Conditioning hooves is similar time-wise to conditioning soft tissues. And taking a horse out of shoes that has been in them for a decent period of time is like reconditioning a horse that has been out of work and stood in a box. Which is why a lot of people who do shoe but with barefoot breaks tend to tale the shoes off and then either turn the horse out for a month or boot from the get go. It just gives the hooves time to recondition before asking too much of them.
 

Michen

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I agree with p555, I think it is probably just a case of a bit too much too soon.

Conditioning hooves is similar time-wise to conditioning soft tissues. And taking a horse out of shoes that has been in them for a decent period of time is like reconditioning a horse that has been out of work and stood in a box. Which is why a lot of people who do shoe but with barefoot breaks tend to tale the shoes off and then either turn the horse out for a month or boot from the get go. It just gives the hooves time to recondition before asking too much of them.

Dammit, I have buggered this up :(

Tbh I assumed it wouldn't be an issue as he's only had a couple of sets of shoes on in his life, and I did build up the length of road work etc but clearly not slow enough if that's what's made him sore.
 

DabDab

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Dammit, I have buggered this up :(

Tbh I assumed it wouldn't be an issue as he's only had a couple of sets of shoes on in his life, and I did build up the length of road work etc but clearly not slow enough if that's what's made him sore.

Don't be daft, we have all done it from time to time. Boots and pads and give it a month or so and I'm sure he'll be fine. Alternatively pop some shoes back on and look at taking them off again going into winter.
 

SEL

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Dammit, I have buggered this up :(

Tbh I assumed it wouldn't be an issue as he's only had a couple of sets of shoes on in his life, and I did build up the length of road work etc but clearly not slow enough if that's what's made him sore.

It won't help that even the fields are hard ground right now.
 
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