Feet & Stumbling.

C

Christmas Crumpet

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Further to my post about under run heels (http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?682356-Are-these-heels-underrun) we went to the vets who did a lameness workup and horse was about 1/10 lame on near fore and 2/10 lame on off fore on a 10m circle on the hard. We all agreed that the heels were under run and she needed more heel and her toes were too long. So we went back in again last week to have foot balance X-rays done and to be scoped for ulcers.

We trotted mare up and lunged on 10/15m circle on hard again and she was sound on near fore and 1/10 on off fore. No reaction to hoof testers at all when front shoes taken off. I have got the X-rays and will post them if anyone wants to see them. Both vet and farrier were really pleased with the X-rays and said they couldn't find anything wrong at all with them and said the foot balance etc was all pretty much perfect although her off fore had a minimally longer toe (literally a mm or two longer). The outward appearance of the foot looks far worse than the X-rays suggest amazingly.

Horse was reshod on Friday with wide webbed quarter clips in front as suggested by the vet. I have spoken to her about taking mare's shoes off, she is in total agreement and we are going to do it in the spring as soon as hunting has finished and will continue to keep her going over the summer with boots or without depending on how she takes to it. She has been barefoot in the past so I am hopeful it will be an easy transition. I don't want a debate about how I should take the shoes off now - I would like to hunt for the rest of the season if I can so am keeping shoes on in the short term. I can't just whip them off and continue to go hunting!! She had 2 days with no fronts on after going to the vets and she was quite happy without them going down the drive to the field and back again so I am hopeful she won't be crippled when the shoes do come off.

Anyway I digress… the farrier found corns on both feet, the off fore being bigger which is the very slightly lame leg. I understand why she has corns with her under run heels and because she is shod but she didn't react at all when pinched with the hoof testers once they were found so it is hard to know how much they are affecting her. She is very barely lame at all. However the horse is still stumbling in front on both legs - I assume it is heel pain that is making her stumble but could it be the corns or could it be thrush? Her frogs were quite raggedy before the farrier trimmed all the bits off and I do quite often trim raggedy bits off too.

Please don't think I am making light of this because I'm not but I think because the horse isn't actually really lame at all, it is hard to know what we are looking for!! The long and short of it is that she is 1/10 lame on one leg, outwardly her feet look wrong with under run heels and long toes but the foot balance internally is fine and the x rays are clean but she is still stumbling and it worries me and I want to find out what it is!!!! Horses don't stumble for no reason.
 
Well, is the farrier "up to the job" . .. long toes, under run heels! ..... I would expect him to be better at deciding whether horse needs special shoes rather than the vet, though obviously there are vets who have a really good knowledge. Did the farrier agree with the vet, or just do the job. Did he use ordinary side clip or New Balance shoes? Is the horse on a good diet, is he being shod frequently enough. No need to answer these questions, just throwing a few ideas around. I don't think raggedy frogs are particularly significant, probably would not occur if you had a sand school but more likely if you use a rubber surface a lot.
I know you want to hunt, but really you can't hunt a lame horse, especially if you don't know what is wrong. Is it likely that the corns are causing a problem now, why did they occur previously ........ were the shoes "tight".
Is it worth thinking about referral to a specialist with an experienced farrier attached to their practice. I would not be happy, but would give it two weeks to settle down.
"Barely lame .. stumbling on both feet" is that not indicating bi-lateral lamness?
I think I would have physio at this stage, to identify and treat any tightness. To me it sounds as though there is something going on, and I would be looking for a world class farrier.
 
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I get what you are saying Bonkers and believe me I've asked all those questions!!

Vet is very good - one of the best in the area and she can't see anything wrong with the foot balance on X-rays although horse does need the heels addressing. The quarter clips were to bring the toe back further - the toe doesn't look long now she's been reshod.

The vet is happy with the shoeing because the internal foot angles are spot on. I bought the horse in May and the only thing of note on her vetting was long toes. She has stumbled since she arrived and I've been trying to find out why ever since. My point is the horse is now only 1/10th lame in one foot i.e barely at all and that is on a 10m circle on the concrete which is minimally lame. She isn't bilaterally lame anymore but she is stumbling so why? If she were more than 1/10th lame on one foot it might be easier to understand.

We have had the physio out. We have had the McTimoney lady out too. Neither of which have found anything of note and both of whom who are bloody good at their job. They have been out regularly too.

Feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall!!
 
I'd be worried about hunting with a horse that stumbles to be honest. I'd also be concerned about the heel pain and what is going on internally as although the xrays are a good indicator it won't show up soft tissue damage in the foot.
Thrush isn't always obvious either so I'd treat for it anyway to be on the safe side.
 
She only stumbles on uneven road surfaces and its more like a little jolt than a proper stumble but it is there and it shouldn't happen!! Clearly the horse does have some kind of heel pain which is why she is stumbling due to landing toe first. She def. lands toe first on a 10m circle but I can't see it on the straight and don't have slow motion on my phone to film it. Her front shoes are worn pretty much equally and she doesn't wear them down very much at all and she is shod every 5 weeks religiously. You certainly wouldn't look at her when she is due for shoeing and think how thin the toes were on the shoe compared to the heel. Uneven shoe wear is one of the main things I look at when trying a horse and her shoes looked fine although she did have long toes which I thought we could sort out.

I have had to retire a horse in the past due to having reverse rotated pedal bones who stumbled 50 times worse than this horse hence why I am trying my hardest to get this sorted out. The vet did say that most people would just ignore the minor stumbling and carry on but I do have to do a lot of roadwork which is why I think I notice it a lot more. If I go offroad, you don't notice her stumbling at all.
 
A friend had a horse that stumbled , he was diagnosed with a heart murmur ,my daughter always said she thought it was as she knew one when she worked in a racing yard .
It seems odd that the horse has stumbled since you got him but passed a vetting ,could he have been given bute prior to the vetting,how long would the blood sample be kept for is it six months ?
 
Caroline, you have not explained why your farrier has not sorted out the feet.

OK, the pedal bone is correctly oriented but the capsule has moved. Underrun heels move the bearing surface of the foot too far forward, leading to caudal heel pain and subsequent toe jabbing or skating depending on the surface.

Long toes retard the leg action by extending the breakover, resulting in the same toe landing problem.

With any lameness fault always sort out the feet first and then if necessary work your way up.
 
Did you nerve block? It is the only way to find out if something bilateral is going on.

Is it the same farrier as you were using before?
 
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