Feet, transitioning, hoofboots help please

[Wheels]

M has been having problems with his feet for a short while now. I had to change farrier because previous farrier let his toes get very long and this was causing tightness in other areas (although M wasn't actually lame)

New farrier has done 2 cycles so far and is gradually bringing the toes back and the feet are starting to look more balanced. However we did have to have a few weeks off, lame in both front feet either jarring or minor strain, probably due to change in foot balance.

He is back in light work now but I think hes still a wee bit 'off' on his left fore, it has a flat foot landing whereas is rf is heel first.

He has now lost the shoe off the left fore twice in 3 weeks.

I am considering pulling the shoes and trying to transition to bf - I have had bf horses before but never done the transitioning part. I've ordered nic bakers book and I am thinking I should get some front boots to help him at first but dont really know where else to start.

The track from the stables to the field is quite stony so thinking boots to go between would be useful and then to lead out in hand for a couple of weeks and see how he fares?

 

[Red-1]

It is the right time of year to transition, as it is soft underfoot in the field.

For a first boot I found Cavallos very adaptable for fit. I would not spend a huge amount at first as the foot tends to change size and shape, so measure, look at the charts and see what is available second hand to start with.

Yes, booting from field to yard may be a good idea.

 

[tallyho!]

My advice is always to get a barefoot specialist in. Preferably someone who has a proper approved qualification like EPAUK or AA/UKNHCP, but perhaps someone who is reputable also? Try this: https://www.barefoothorse.info/barefoot-trimmer-association/

There is nothing better than having someone who knows what they are talking about to help you on the ground. Keep going with your own research and turn into a hoof geek .

 

[ester]

If you want easy on/off boots to get to the field cavallos are probably the best bet and they do now have more options than they used to. Personally I have needed to use them with socks to avoid rubbing.

For riding (especially faster) fit and breakover is much more important although obviously this can change (F was unusual in that he didn't) and any of our uk boot stockists are very helpful on advising what might work best.

Diet?

 

[Wheels]

My advice is always to get a barefoot specialist in. Preferably someone who has a proper approved qualification like EPAUK or AA/UKNHCP, but perhaps someone who is reputable also? Try this: https://www.barefoothorse.info/barefoot-trimmer-association/

There is nothing better than having someone who knows what they are talking about to help you on the ground. Keep going with your own research and turn into a hoof geek .

Unfortunately there is no specialist in my area (well there is one so called specialist but I've used them once and will never again!)

So its farrier + increasing my knowledge as much as possible.

 

[Wheels]

If you want easy on/off boots to get to the field cavallos are probably the best bet and they do now have more options than they used to. Personally I have needed to use them with socks to avoid rubbing.

For riding (especially faster) fit and breakover is much more important although obviously this can change (F was unusual in that he didn't) and any of our uk boot stockists are very helpful on advising what might work best.

Diet?

He is out in the field during the day and in at night on very very dry haylage (almost wrapped hay). Hes on thunderbrooks daily Essentials with a small amount of micronised linseed.

Work wise - I am not sure how to start, he is partially fit, able to trot for a decent amount of time and have a couple of canters but am I better to go back to leading out in hand for 10 mins and starting to introduce schooling gradually or add in the hand walking on tarmac to his current schedule?

 

[ester]

So, not everyone finds the thunderbrooks great (iirc the copper and zinc can be a bit low for some but they stopped everyone talking about it with their heavy handed techniques so can't double check what people who know more than me said)

I would take a less is more approach work wise atm myself to start with and see how he goes, trotting etc is an awful lot more force on the hooves until they are ready for it.

 

[Reacher]

Agree with cavallos being good starter boot.
How strong his feet are will affect what level of work to start at - eg if feet are flat / weak digital cushion / underrun you need to start low intensity work until they get stronger.
My 18yo retired ex-racer was previously trimmed by a farrier and had very weak feet. I changed to a BFT who trims to the wild mustang shape and with nothing else much changed her digital cushions are gradually getting stronger.
I went on a course run by the BFT and I trim the feet in between her (6 weekly) visits - bevelling the edges as I was shown. I think this is a useful thing to be able to do and it is helping with her feet ‘s recovery.

In case it’s useful there are various resources in this link - scroll down as more added ad hoc.
https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/barefoot-info-websites.760014/

 

[Wheels]

His feet are flat yes and with quite a bit of lateral and medial flare - some pics below from when he pulled his shoe a few weeks ago (outside pics) and one of the underside from this morning after he pulled his shoe yesterday + an xray from vets 6 weeks ago

Any comments will be most welcome!

 

[Wheels]

So, not everyone finds the thunderbrooks great (iirc the copper and zinc can be a bit low for some but they stopped everyone talking about it with their heavy handed techniques so can't double check what people who know more than me said)

I would take a less is more approach work wise atm myself to start with and see how he goes, trotting etc is an awful lot more force on the hooves until they are ready for it.

So what would be a better feed? I love how shiny he is on the thunderbrooks and he is feeling well on it but if theres something better for his feet then will look into it

 

[Red-1]

This is the second year I have taken this horse's shoes off, due to me not having time to ride consistently so to give me a break more than her (mum not well, taking all my time and effort). She has been sound both times before and after the shoes were removed, but both times I have given her 2 weeks for them to settle then started walking out in hand.

The last 2 days she has been walked out 45 minutes each day, but we dd start from 10 minutes and worked up from that, over 4 weeks. Last year it took longer as, although she had no issues per se, her feet were not as lovely as they are now.

Last year, they improved so much over the winter from walking, then on to riding, that she was doing dressage, BS jumping and hacking over rough surfaces without shoes from spring onwards. We only shod up in about late May as I wanted to start some XC and it rained so I wanted studs!

This year her feet have stayed hard and a FAB shape whilst shod, so the transition is taking a lot less time. Last year it took a few months to build it up to 45 minutes.

The previous 2 horses I did the same with took a bit longer too, but both of those also had other issues so would have been slower anyway, as well as having been shod non stop for years. The previous 2 needed boots, this horse has been fine with none.

I would be cautious at first as they often seem pain free for the first 4-10 weeks, then the feet become sensitive. Then they get better again.

Diet seems OK, but I found the Progressive Earth Pro Hoof supplement threw out great quality horn and lots of it.

I can recommend someone for trimming, Fiona Varian. She travels all over and is a magician with feet!

 

[Wheels]

Many thanks red - I will look at the pro earth

I am not sure fiona travels to NI??

 

[Leo Walker]

So what would be a better feed? I love how shiny he is on the thunderbrooks and he is feeling well on it but if theres something better for his feet then will look into it

He looks shiny as theres a high % of linseed in it! I'd change to Equimins Advance Complete. Cheaper and a better spec. I'd add some linseed to it so you don't lose the shine

 

[ester]

Ooh hoofy pics how exciting. They look pretty good really TBH, the sort that should progress well and reasonably quickly and grow that flare out.

The second frog pic particularly I would treat for thrush, they are good frogs generally but that will help them along even if they aren't smelly (I would spray with red horse sole cleanse and pack with hoof stuff).

Re. feed usual recommendations are:
equimins adv. complete (with additional mag might be needed), forageplus, pro hoof, equivita. Though as said, they don't look bad as they are.

 

[Wheels]

I dont think there is any micronised linseed in the Daily Essentials but I do give him about 150gms of micronised linseed a day which I have done with other feeds but not had such a nice coat on other feeds

Will look up the equimins, thanks

 

[Leo Walker]

I dont think there is any micronised linseed in the Daily Essentials but I do give him about 150gms of micronised linseed a day which I have done with other feeds but not had such a nice coat on other feeds

Will look up the equimins, thanks

I was thinking of base mix, so ignore me! The only ingredients are:

Monocalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Carbonate, Yeasacc 1026, Blue-Green Algae.

So its probably not that making your horse lovely and shiny afterall!

 

[Wheels]

Ooh hoofy pics how exciting. They look pretty good really TBH, the sort that should progress well and reasonably quickly and grow that flare out.

The second frog pic particularly I would treat for thrush, they are good frogs generally but that will help them along even if they aren't smelly (I would spray with red horse sole cleanse and pack with hoof stuff).

Re. feed usual recommendations are:
equimins adv. complete (with additional mag might be needed), forageplus, pro hoof, equivita. Though as said, they don't look bad as they are.

What do you think about the couple of event lines - I know they are relatively small but are they likely to produce more flare as they progress down?

 

[Red-1]

Many thanks red - I will look at the pro earth

I am not sure fiona travels to NI??

Ha, no, she does go up and down England but not to you. I had not realised where you were.

The Pro Hoof is great, but only if your horse is an avid eater. Many don't like the taste unless it is added slowly.

 

[splashgirl45]

if you have a good farrier then stick with him and chat to him about taking shoes off. my farrier was good and was happy for my horse to have shoes off and never trimmed them too much....also if you take hinds off first and let them get hardened off it will be easier for him to cope when the fronts come off

 

[ester]

What do you think about the couple of event lines - I know they are relatively small but are they likely to produce more flare as they progress down?

No I don't think so as the growth is tighter above them.

 

[Wheels]

So... farrier is coming tonight to pull the other 3 shoes and trim

So am I right in thinking that I should ask him to trim as much of the flare as possible without compromising the outer wall, minimal work to heals, leave frog and leave sole - roll / bevel wall

Is that along the right lines?

 

[Pinkvboots]

I wouldn't cut too much foot off to start with as it could make him sore, I am currently transitioning one of my horses and to start with he couldn't cope with even a slight trim, so I just rasped the toe and edges to tidy them up and keep them from getting too long.

 

[Wheels]

So just light trim but leave most of the flare as is?

 

[ester]

I'd just take shoes off and not trim at all.

Farriers are generally over keen to address flare but at this stage it isn't appropriate.

 

[Wheels]

Ok thank you - a wee bit worried about the foot balance without any trim but this will rectify itself over time will it?

Thanks for everyone's help, it's a scary time!

 

[ester]

At this point you really want them to do what they want to do, don't underestimate them , remember none of rockleys get trimmed straight off. It seems to be debatable how much difference removing flare makes if you are balanced on the bottom. Personally I think it mostly makes them look prettier. Frank has a supportive flare/distortion on his worst hind leg, I trimmed him for several years, he has some flare on his fronts that I left well alone other than rolling the wall edge. He is now farrier trimmed (and retired) and as time has gone on the more trim happy the farrier has got though (it's longer since I nagged him ), he very much likes addressing flare and knows we don't agree on it (but I'm 200 miles away so it's been best if I stop worrying about it as it doesn't cause him any issues but he is obviously well established bare).

Fwiw we did just take shoes off, no trim at all to start, the extra length was likely beneficial at the start.

 

[ester]

And yup it's scary, but that's ok

 

[Red-1]

It may well meed help to reduce over time, but when the shoes are first off, I also don't trim. I do as another poster and just take off the edges, and leave for 2 weeks. I think of it as time for the hoof to relax.

My farrier has given me a rasp, and after that I start the road walking in hand and keep at the edges. At first they will wear quite a lot. I stop any square bits appearing where the horse may wear more toe.

This is all I do for another month.

After this I pick a date, such as the 1st of the month, and take photos from ground level of the front and side views, then from picked up of the sole and heels. You need to make sure that they don't get too skewiff. I also put a bevel in the edges, so it is at an angle. This not only stops any breaking off, but also encourages a tight white line as the edges are not pulling the wall away in motion.

After a few moths I get a trimmer or farrier to just check my work.

That is with thee three horses I have done, but they have all had good basic conformation. I would discuss your particular horse with your farrier. Some horses are actually better with skewiff hooves to cope better with skewiff bodies!

 

[Wheels]

Appreciate the support everyone

 

[Wheels]

Should I book farrier to come back in 4 weeks or leave it a bit longer

(Now I'm really realising how little I know!!)