Felt like crying, so I did (long)

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welsh_mare

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Sorry in advance foe this self-pitying post, but feeling so low.

I bought my mare a year ago, I knew she could be nappy, she tried it on when I tried her before buying and I got her through it. Any way after I bought her, it would have been about 5 weeks I think, she napped really badly and after an hour, and not even a mile, I felt is was getting a bit dangerous, narrow (1 car) road, bucks and some small rears, there was nothing I could do, so we came home!!, ( I know I let her win:(), well on that occasion I took her back to yard lunged her, and got on her at home, nothing, perfectly behaved!

So took her straight back out again, she started napping again, but managed to get her through it, and had a lovely short hack :). Since then she has had little nap nothing big, easy to deal with, until yesterday :(

Went out in the morning, got about 1 1/2 miles from home and she started, but this time the rears were big, she was rearing up and leaping forwards into things, hedges etc and one point the bank next to me, which is taller than her (she is 15.2) she reared straight at it and had front hooves on top of it :o like she was going to try and climb it, I tried pushing her, I tried to make her stand quietly in a gate way (rearing and bucking on the spot).

I had no control, if i tried to turn her she would open her mouth the bit was going through ( cavesson and French link) but the rears were starting to frighten me, and as we were on the road, again it is narrow, cars and lorries were passing it just wasn't safe, we came home :(

So put her back in her stable, and went shopping, flash noseband and full cheek snaffle, back to yard, lunged her and rode her at yard tried to take her out again, wouldn't go off the yard, so took her round the back past YO house as soon as we got to road she starts rearing again, leaping forward towards the big stone pillars on the driveway, once in to a bush, a couple of times when she reared as I went forward her hooves were at my eye level waving!!!!, she seems to go up and be able to balance :( then comes down when she's ready, this went on for about 15 minutes,got her on the road about 30 yards up there is a bend, got her to the bend really riding and using my voice, and all of a sudden, a switch got flipped on (or off!) and she stopped napping, pricked her ears and started jogging up the road as if looking forward to a nice hack!!!.

We had a lovely hack she was good as gold, really nice reminded why I love her so much :)


BUT................ got on her this morning, got off the yard, just about to pass entrance to YO house Travis Perkins lorry comes up behind me (4 new houses being built just up the road so loads of lorries at the moment) I had to move out of the way, only place was entrance to YO house, and off she goes again :( rearing straight up leaping forward to stone pillar, couldn't turn her and ended up outside his house, got off her lead her back up to entrance and got again, rearing leapt forward into a bush, it's also raining and she slipped on a man hole cover, and this gave me big concern, more lorries passing and I just thought this is not going to happen, road was too busy, wet and slippy and if I'm completely honest these rears are putting the fear of god into me :(

I'm so worried she is going to fall to the side or backwards with me on her, although her balance is good I'm not happy with it, at one point yesterday afternoon I wrapped my arms round her neck as she went so high I felt as if I would slip straight down, I'm sure it was only my suede seat saver that gave me grip :o
 
Sorry hit Submit before I finished, so anyway took her back to yard this morning, I know, she won and I feel awful for it, but I didn't feel safe, so I sat in the tack room and had a cry, and phoned vets, someone is coming later to check her back, her teeth were done 3 weeks ago, I'm also wondering if it's season related, previous owners felt she started with them last year on her first season of the year!, so going to ask advice from vet.

If anyone has any answers I would gladly hear them, but for information she is a 6 year old warmblood X.

Thank-you for feeding my novel, wine and Easter eggs (still got loads!) for you all, as I shall be having some tonight, wine that is :o
 
Oh the joys of owning a mare! :rolleyes::o

I can't give you any tips on the napping, as couldn't deal with that myself.

But what is she like in company and what is she like with people on the ground?

Keep your chin up :), you will get there. I am also having trouble with my mare napping! Funnily enough she is happy to walk out of the yard and her ears are pricked. But then out of knowhere she slams on the breaks and starts reversing!
 
Im sorry, Big hugs.
Your very very brave. That was my first thought!

Whats she like in company? Can you just stick to hacking in company for now until she and you get your confidence together. In the mean time maybe some lessons helping you again to get to grips with her and increasing your confidence.
Rearing is not funny and in my mind is best avoided if you can!
 
I'm not that experienced re napping and rearing (I would prob just leap off and pee my pants if my horse did that), but could you get an instructor to ride out with you on a hack, or even just come with you on a bike (my RI used to do that when I first got my horse) and be there to give some help if the napping starts.

Good luck x
 
My horse has napped once in a while and does similar things, he does it less and less now and *touches wood frantically* he hasnt napped now for about a year. This is what worked for me -

when she threatens to rear put your hand behind your knee quickly so her head and neck are turned right round, so her nose is nearly touching your boot, in this position she cant rear or buck. If you are on safe ground I would give her a few good boots once in this position, (I will say - only do this when the horse is clearly being naughty and dangerous,pain and fear should be ruled out beforehand) if you are on good ground (grass/verge ideally) give her a good few boots and let her spin in a circle 4/5 times. then ask her to walk on, if she does it again do exactly the same until she realises she isnt getting anywhere.

One aspect of Toms napping was a kind of agoraphobia :o so would mostly nap just leaving the yard. In this case I just sat there and kept him pointing in the right direction,as telling him off made it worse. eventually he realised he isnt going anywhere other than forward so amy aswell give in, this works with his personality because he doesnt like waiting!!

Also, I put my bungee on him and he has been an angel to hack out since!!! :D
Finally, I wouldnt turn round ever. I would in worst caase scenario get off, lead for a while and get back on. I dont take Tom on any hacks that involve turning round! :)
 
I think you have to choose your times for an argument with a napper.

Time of day is really important if you're hacking out as well.

What happens, when she starts, if you just sit there totally impassive??
 
I think you've probably got to the stage where you need some help, both for moral support and technique. So I would find someone local to you with a good reputation

To use that full cheek correctly for this sort of thing you need to do a bit of lateral work with your horse. By that I mean flexing the neck and moving the quarters if desired.

In broad terms the minute she starts to act up you use one rein and pull her head to your foot (and I mean full flexion), from here she cannot rear and the only thing she can do is spin round, you do not release until all feet have stopped moving and you have counted to at least 3 - pat and release

Ask her to move forwards, if same reaction flex again (I do it on both sides to even up the muscles).

This really works, with no flapping. However its something you need to practise before trying it in a dangerous situation (road and cars)

This is the degree of flexion (mare was rearing and fell over with me, a kind Aussie bloke taught me this to stop her)

229434_10150261092512095_532297094_9544484_1440302_n.jpg
 
Echo Amy B, you can't EVER let a napper win. They win once and they just get worse and worse :( :(. If it was me like amymay said, I would pick a good time of day. Like a sunday morning when there is no traffic and a nice dry quiet day. Then I would put on BP, neckstrap, things to make me feel safe.
Then be brave and sit it out!!! Don't get cross or upset or angry. Just sit it out and be cool, calm but FIRM.
Never ever ever let her win again, never put yourself in a position where you will lose. Even if you have to get your mobile out and call someone to come and help you, even if you have to get off and lead her up the road, never turn her around. Always do circular hacks. Never ask her to halt or slow down when riding away from the yard.

You have to be brave here. You have got yourself in a bit of a pickle but you can get through it. Don't give up!! When she knows that you are leader and that you dont get frightened and you dont give up she will stop doing it.

Good luck!!!
 
Is she in pain, mine has always had a nap in her but she started to rear and be really strong willed, she has now been diagnosed with early OA changes in her hock and mild PSD, even though my normal vet thought she was sound, even now she is only 1/10 lame on her right hind on a circle.

Please be careful
 
OMG you poor thing! Well my first thought was yes, you are very brave! I'd have crapped myself with all that rearing. My old boy napped dangerously when he was a youngster, but only when I tried to hack him out on his own or load him on his own (we got that sorted too in the end!). It was totally confidence related, he was petrified of going anywhere alone. If I got off and led him he'd happily go anywhere though so thats what I did, every time he napped I would just get off and lead for a while, stop, get back on, carry on. Eventually the amount of times I'd have to get of became less and less until he stopped napping altogether. I realise this is not practical with a massive horse, and quite probably not the 'right' way to deal with it, but it TOTALLY worked. He became a total joy to hack out and when my job changed and I couldn't ride every day a friend of mine started hacking him a couple of times a week and when he tragically died last year she sent me the nicest card and she wrote in it that he was the happiest horse she'd ever ridden and what a joy to hack out he was, always happy to go infront, always a spring in his step and ears pricked. Obviously it made me cry like mad, but it made me so proud of him and how we overcame his fear of the big wide world!
You will get there and you CAN do this - I know if I can do it anyone can! I think you are doing the right thing in ruling out all the obvious stuff first, but good luck with her. xxx
 
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amy_b, I totally agree about not turning around, yesterday morning I got off and lead her twice, each time I got back on the napping was getting worse the rears more frequent, with this and the fact there was vehicles, having to get past and couldn't, I had to make a choice and for whatever reason she wasn't having any of it, i felt she was dangerous, and I felt really unsafe with her, I am totally beating myself up about taking her back yesterday morning, and as for today, the amount of lorries on this narrow road going both ways with me and mare, her on 2 legs was an accident waiting to happen.

Where I am you can't ride a route, you can only go one way, 3 miles on the road before you get a route to ride.

amymay, if I sit and do nothing she can wind herself up, I tried this yesterday, would wait for her to calm and when I felt she was ready would ask her to walk on, we would get about 6/7 strides and nope not having it starts rearing, I cant turn her, nothing,its like I have no steering, nothing, I have to jump off and lead her back into the gateway as I can not get her back there by riding, get back on and wait calmly again, after doing this about 4 times it's like she realised what was happening, was doing small bucks and bouncing! On the spot, then all of a sudden would rear and leap forwards onto the road, not funny when a car was coming, thankfully they were driving slow :o
 
She has napped in company, but has never been as bad as this, my problem is I ride Monday to Friday as hubby works away and we have young children so can only ride during school hours, if the if the others ride it's mainly weekends :( I have friend who is on a different yard that i can box her too, but her horse is lame at the moment, feels like its all going wrong, waiting for vet to ring now to come and make sure she is in no pain, if not I will try tomorrow and persevere (sp) with getting off and leading, then getting back on, even if it's miles, could do with the exercise :)
 
When I was a lot braver than I am now I bought a mare who was as clever as yours. I have never known any thing go side ways so fast, once wedging me up someones hedge on the high street in their front garden. She had obviously started doing it with her previous owner and did it towards cars. As she was bright I knew she wasn't going to hurt herself so I wasn't worried so she stopped doing it. Then she started doing towards walkers and I suppose she must have felt that I was worried for them so you would have a lovely hack then she would see someone walking a try and make a beeline for them. Very difficult to stop when she could travel sideways 15ft in 2 seconds.
I had her for two years and I had to get rid as we moved somewhere where there were more people and I couldn't risk it.
Some days she would be lovely and others days she would be totally uncooperative, and if you tried to work though it she was just as stressed as when you started. I tried putting her back in the stable and doing her again later when she had lost her other head and sometimes that worked.
Mares are very clever, I have a NF that I have had since she was 4. She is the nicest kindest animal ever but over the years she has set out her stall of what she will and won't do and will go from being absolutely dosy to a ringwraith in the blink of an eye if its not in her job discription.
Whatever you do try not to feel bad,I remember crying loads, whatever you do you will be doing it for the right reason.
 
If she's just started doing it again, it might be a seasonal thing. Daughter's pony mare, who can be a bit of a stresshead but is normally OK to hack, completely lost the plot hacking home from a show @ the weekend. Bucking, trotting on the spot & cantering sideways. Daughter was fine but the poor pony was drenched in sweat when she got home. I'm wondering if it was hormones & / or spring grass.
 
Thank-you honetpot, this is my first mare (and probably my last!), I love her dearly she is such a character, but her rearing coupled with the fact that I was worried about getting injured while on my own with 2 children, meant I havent dealt with this the best way :( will have vet rule out pain and start afresh tomorrow :) tomorrow is a new day, but thank-your for you kind words :)
 
Echo the holding the head to your leg, the Old Appy used to bite my boot :eek: She was also a very clever mare and knew she could worry the rider. I cured her of some of it one day when I saw the 'red mist'. The mare was pratting by the side of the river, right on the bank, I lost the plot a bit :( and dragged her round and round with her gob round my boot :eek:. At that point SHE was worried that we would go in the river and that I had gone mad (I think that is what she thought). She then behaved like an angel, for a while. She never totally gave up, but was a heck of a lot better. The other trick we have used with 'sticky' horses, is to have a schooling whip and wave it over the horses neck, in the motion of a windscreen wiper, so that they see it with both eyes and move forwards away from it. Good luck with her and would echo pick a dry day to start the battle.
 
Yowzer! Seriously, OP, don't be overly hard on yourself as your message reads pretty scary I have to say.

Some fab advice on here, about firstly ruling out the usual health issues, and how to work on nappers. I don't have much history with them but various reading suggests groundwork to help improve your relationship and ability to move her feet, going out in company if at all possible, increasing the spaces between horse and the rest of the group. Also, do you think long lining might work? I realise you might still have a safety issue on the roads but at least you won't be on top. All with the help of someone knowledgeable of course to keep you company. And def a BP and lots of neon. And on quiet dry days.

I really feel for you ** virtual hug ** and am so impressed by your resilience.

And am slightly +eek+ as I'm just about to have a 6yo WBx mare vetted. Gulp. Only had one mare before and she was a saint - is this common behaviour for mares please ??!!
 
Good god, how scarey, I am in awe of your braveness :)

Like others have said even if you have to lead her in hand to get round, then do that, never take her home .

Sounds like you are slowly winning, but please try to stop her rearing, I have seen a horse go up and over, and never want to see or hear it again, I don't want to scare you, but it was scarey :(

Keep going girl, you sound like you may just win this battle xx
 
You are so brave! Before you start trying all the above suggestions I would have a word with a good equine vet and get her checked out. It could be pain related/hormonal. My friend had a mare that would lose it for no apparent reason and it was a growth on her ovaries. Treated and a new girl!

If you have ruled out physical pain, then I think a bit of professional help if you can manage it would be helpful . At the end of the day your safety is paramount.

No-one could question your guts!
 
Not surprised you have shed some tears...how awful. Rearing is terrifying and if she is doing it on the ground too then that is very difficult.

Obviously you are doing the best thing and looking at pain aspects...I would tend to think its a nervous reaction and being a mare with hormones then a butterfly can become a big scary monster!

I agree with the people on here that said get off and lead her.... due to the possiblity of her falling on top of you I would just get off and lead her....she will stop eventually when she realised she is not rewarded by going home. Continue on your ride till you are off the road and get back on

You mentioned she continues when you lead her, obviously if she is rearing when you lead her then this is not safe either....have you tried her in a rope halter or be nice? maybe let her get used to one in the school and then put it on under her bridle and take the noseband off.

You sound so sad...I'm not surprised, riding should be fun!! you will get through this...if pain is ruled out maybe consider a hormone supplement, worked wonders on my friends forrester.
 
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You sound extremely brave to me!

I would recommend that once the vet has checked her over you should get an instructor to come and help you. A lot of the advice you have been given on here sounds good, especially the turning the horses head to your boot, but an instructor will be able to assess the situation first hand and demonstrate how to do it (check she can do it!) this should give you much more confidence to deal with her behaviour.

Good Luck
 
Bernster said:
Yowzer! Seriously, OP, don't be overly hard on yourself as your message reads pretty scary I have to say.

Some fab advice on here, about firstly ruling out the usual health issues, and how to work on nappers. I don't have much history with them but various reading suggests groundwork to help improve your relationship and ability to move her feet, going out in company if at all possible, increasing the spaces between horse and the rest of the group. Also, do you think long lining might work? I realise you might still have a safety issue on the roads but at least you won't be on top. All with the help of someone knowledgeable of course to keep you company. And def a BP and lots of neon. And on quiet dry days.

I really feel for you ** virtual hug ** and am so impressed by your resilience.

And am slightly +eek+ as I'm just about to have a 6yo WBx mare vetted. Gulp. Only had one mare before and she was a saint - is this common behaviour for mares please ??!!
Click to expand...

^ I personally dont think so...I have known a few like this but most I have known have been very gentle and just sensitive. My mare Ive had for 10 years has been wonderful, stubborn at times and stressy about stablling but apart from that she has been lovely (albeit very lame most of the time!)
 
Thank-you ALL so so much for your replies, waited at yard for vet he said about 7pm, phoned at 8:10pm to say was going to be too dark by the time he got to me so have re-arranged for tomorrow morning.

I am determined too find out if there is a physical reason for this behaviour, she is otherwise a fantastic horse, easy to do in all other ways :)

She also has fantastic breeding, and I have so many plans for her, so I'm really hoping we can get through this, and will do everything I can and get all the help I can to solve this problem, if vet can not find anything physical, I am going to discuss hormone problems, and once we have ruled everything out, or found a reason why, I'm going to get an instructor in to help, I feel so much better now than I did earlier, I feel like I have a plan, I'm doing something.

I bought Till may 2011, after having Harvey my lovely 6 year old pts in september 2010, Tilly wasn't really what I wanted, too small, a mare!, and I've never really got into warmbloods, but she was local and not too much money, so I thought she was worth a look.

I saw a beautiful horse with a kind eye and thought oh yes, even if I bring her on to sell, now?, I wouldn't dream of selling, she is everything I wasn't looking for and yet has turned into the perfect mare (apart from this episode!). I have looked into her breeding and wow :) I realise I am so lucky to have found her, and wouldn't part for the world (unless I really am not the right rider for her) so I will take on board everyone's advice and what the vet says tomorrow, and hopefully me and Tilly can work through this together :)
 
I don't think mares are all bad, but they do seem to need to trust you and work as a team with you. Sometimes if they think they have the upper hand they can be swines! To be honest, most of the nappy rearers I've met over the years have been geldings!

Anyway, a few things jumped out at me when I read your posts. Firstly how gutsy you are - well done on keeping trying and trying. I don't think its a great idea staying on the horse in the circumstances you described, as it would be dangerous in traffic... Your safety is the most important thing... The traffic seems to play a part in this - is she worried about traffic? It seems to kick off as a lorry goes past... All the advice you have been given has been good, but you can't really do all these things on a busy road! Is there anywhere quieter that you could hack out? It does sound a big part of the issues..

I would go with -
1. Health checks.
2. Instructor to have lessons with/ride the horse/hack out with.
3. Thinking about another yard if there is nowhere quiet to hack out...
4. Lungeing the horse for a long time (not working hard, but to take the energy and edge off the horse before hacking).

Hugs to you. I think this will work out... Problems always seem to escalate at this time of year - Spring grass has a lot to answer for!! Good luck.x
 
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