fence walking making keeping my horse impossible, what to do???

[tillyd]

hello, has anyone on here had a horse that fence walks so badly they just can't keep them?

I really do not know what to do. My 6 year old was basically banned from going out at my last yard because it's all clay round here and she was trashing the fields. I would arrive to find her a sweaty muddy mess in the stable. They weren't really interested in managing it. She never fence walked before she was at that yard - I've had her since a foal - so I'm so annoyed with myself for not stopping it developing it, but there you go, that's where we are now.

She does it all year round, and has had front feet problems, perhaps partly through doing it in summer.

Last winter I got to about December and then couldn't manage with her being in 24/7, so decided to turn her away completely. That did fix the fence walking - but then she got kicked and fractured her cannon bone so is only now coming off box rest and back into work 9 months later.

Currently i literally will only turn her out for an hour while I watch her, to avoid it happening again. I'm freelance so am lucky I can do that, but it's basically meaning i'm going up the yard about 4 times a day, and is absolutely ruling my life.

I can't afford full livery (and actually she was on full livery when she started doing it). I can't leave her in 24/7 because she then weaves, and also i can't exercise her every day (particularly at the moment as she is only just coming back into work). I don't feel i can turn her away again, because if she gets another injury like she did last year that will be the end, as her insurance is now full of exclusions.

I just do not know what to do, and am making myself ill worrying about it! I have even fleetingingly thought about having her PTS because I can't manage any more. I am certain it is now so ingrained, like windsucking etc, that there is no way i can train her out of it.

What would you do in my position? thanks for any opinions

 

[9tails]

Find grass livery in a stable herd and leave her out. You don't mention whether she's on individual turnout but I'd guess she is from her behaviour.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I would risk 24/7 turnout. Can you find grass livery? If you are thinking about having her shot anyway (even if it's only fleeting) what have you got to lose? Just have it clear in your mind that if she suffers a bad injury that you will call it a day.

ETA - in a stable herd.

 

[SpringArising]

What would you do in my position?

Find grass livery in a stable herd and leave her out. You don't mention whether she's on individual turnout but I'd guess she is from her behaviour.

I would risk 24/7 turnout. Can you find grass livery? If you are thinking about having her shot anyway (even if it's only fleeting) what have you got to lose? Just have it clear in your mind that if she suffers a bad injury that you will call it a day.

ETA - in a stable herd.

I'd do as above. I love watching them play all together.

 

[applecart14]

hello, has anyone on here had a horse that fence walks so badly they just can't keep them?

I really do not know what to do. My 6 year old was basically banned from going out at my last yard because it's all clay round here and she was trashing the fields. I would arrive to find her a sweaty muddy mess in the stable. They weren't really interested in managing it. She never fence walked before she was at that yard - I've had her since a foal - so I'm so annoyed with myself for not stopping it developing it, but there you go, that's where we are now.

She does it all year round, and has had front feet problems, perhaps partly through doing it in summer.

Last winter I got to about December and then couldn't manage with her being in 24/7, so decided to turn her away completely. That did fix the fence walking - but then she got kicked and fractured her cannon bone so is only now coming off box rest and back into work 9 months later.

Currently i literally will only turn her out for an hour while I watch her, to avoid it happening again. I'm freelance so am lucky I can do that, but it's basically meaning i'm going up the yard about 4 times a day, and is absolutely ruling my life.

I can't afford full livery (and actually she was on full livery when she started doing it). I can't leave her in 24/7 because she then weaves, and also i can't exercise her every day (particularly at the moment as she is only just coming back into work). I don't feel i can turn her away again, because if she gets another injury like she did last year that will be the end, as her insurance is now full of exclusions.

I just do not know what to do, and am making myself ill worrying about it! I have even fleetingingly thought about having her PTS because I can't manage any more. I am certain it is now so ingrained, like windsucking etc, that there is no way i can train her out of it.

What would you do in my position? thanks for any opinions

If you can find a reason for her doing it, then you might find a solution but if you have no idea whilst she is doing it then its very difficult.
The only thing I would suggest is putting in a haynet but you have probably already tried this.

 

[applecart14]

hello, has anyone on here had a horse that fence walks so badly they just can't keep them?

I really do not know what to do. My 6 year old was basically banned from going out at my last yard because it's all clay round here and she was trashing the fields. I would arrive to find her a sweaty muddy mess in the stable. They weren't really interested in managing it. She never fence walked before she was at that yard - I've had her since a foal - so I'm so annoyed with myself for not stopping it developing it, but there you go, that's where we are now.

She does it all year round, and has had front feet problems, perhaps partly through doing it in summer.

Last winter I got to about December and then couldn't manage with her being in 24/7, so decided to turn her away completely. That did fix the fence walking - but then she got kicked and fractured her cannon bone so is only now coming off box rest and back into work 9 months later.

Currently i literally will only turn her out for an hour while I watch her, to avoid it happening again. I'm freelance so am lucky I can do that, but it's basically meaning i'm going up the yard about 4 times a day, and is absolutely ruling my life.

I can't afford full livery (and actually she was on full livery when she started doing it). I can't leave her in 24/7 because she then weaves, and also i can't exercise her every day (particularly at the moment as she is only just coming back into work). I don't feel i can turn her away again, because if she gets another injury like she did last year that will be the end, as her insurance is now full of exclusions.

I just do not know what to do, and am making myself ill worrying about it! I have even fleetingingly thought about having her PTS because I can't manage any more. I am certain it is now so ingrained, like windsucking etc, that there is no way i can train her out of it.

What would you do in my position? thanks for any opinions

If you can find a reason for her doing it, then you might find a solution but if you have no idea whilst she is doing it then its very difficult.
The only thing I would suggest is putting in a haynet but you have probably already tried this. My horse did this once and it was because the field he was in was too far away (in his eyes) for safety, it was the furthest field away from the yard and although he had a horse next door to him, he did not feel secure as he was on his own in this field. When he was moved he was fine, but it was a worrying few days.

 

[Doormouse]

I would second, third and fourth the suggestion that you find grass livery with a nice herd and keep her out. If this isn't possible, could you try getting her a companion who is always with her in the field. She may feel more secure with something like this.

 

[Tammytoo]

I would change yards as soon as you can find grass livery. How was she kept before you moved to your current yard? She does sound very stressed now, so I would also consider the possibility that she has developed ulcers and try feeding a supplement that would help her in this respect. Try contacting Debbie at Equine Science (they have a website), she is very helpful and experienced.

Just to add, I have no connection with Equine Science, other supplements are available !

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Yes, I had 1 livery that did this, completely trashed the field.
Managed to help her get him into a stable herd (nothing coming and going for the whole summer) out 24/7 at adjacent yard, and 2 yrs down the line he is fine - she can even bring him in at night when the others come in (used to weave for olympic gold too).
Now he can stay happily with the old codgers when the ponies go out to PC etc

 

[tillyd]

thank you everyone, i really appreciate you all replying, as I can no longer see the wood for the trees and have got myself in a right state about it.
Considering PTS was a fleeting thought when it all feels too much, i wouldn't really be able to go through with that.
Am really interested to see you all say turn out 24/7. I will have to have a long hard think about whether I can take that risk. I just don't know. That was exactly what I tried to do last winter, the plan was I would just work her from the field, and she managed 3 months out before she got kicked. She also injured herself in the field as a 3 year old (not a kick though). But I agree, the risk may be something I have to take, although I would have to get myself mentally ok with that, in case something did happen to her.

And don't know if somewhere like that exists near me, I will start to look - difficult to find grass livery where she could go without the other horses in the field coming in to be worked etc. Also she's a bit of a witch over food, which might put some people off having their horses out with her, as haying etc would be challenging!

I think the fencewalking may have started due to food in winter - ie she'd rather come into a large haynet - so there is ongoing work I could do over a period of years to try and reduce that association of stable=food.

thank you so much. What woudl be ideal would be if I could rent a field and have control over it, and borrow 2 x quiet companions for her. But no idea if that is possible.

 

[tillyd]

Yes, I had 1 livery that did this, completely trashed the field.
Managed to help her get him into a stable herd (nothing coming and going for the whole summer) out 24/7 at adjacent yard, and 2 yrs down the line he is fine - she can even bring him in at night when the others come in (used to weave for olympic gold too).
Now he can stay happily with the old codgers when the ponies go out to PC etc

this has given me hope, but would need an amazing YO to help me get through this to that point!

 

[EQUIDAE]

Occasionally a horse will get kicked when turned out - but you can't keep them in 24/7 in case it happens. That's just not fair on the horse. As everyone else has suggested - 24/7 turnout on a yard that will put hay out in the fields when the grass is bad. Of course they want to come in if they are out 24/7 but there is nothing to eat.

You will get there but the horse needs a stable herd and good forage to get out of the habit.

You don't say what turnout is like when he does it? Are you keeping him singly?

 

[tillyd]

she does it with or without food in the field. For example at the moment her little paddock she goes in has lots of grass - too much really - very green - but she still left a line of hoof marks along the fence line the other day. I think it started off re food, but is now a learned habit.
She does it on her own or when out with one other (that takes no notice of her).
I agree with you re turnout and all my previous horses have been out as much as poss, but when you are just coming off the back of 9 months box rest and now 6 months rehab, and the possibility your horse may only be hacking sound in future, you do start to look at the risks differently.
But I agree with you - I think the stable herd is key as she wouldn't cope with things being brought in/out to be ridden. How on earth i find that set up, and still have access to a school as well is something else, but i will have to try, even if it's a long term aim for 6 months time.

 

[tillyd]

sorry, i didn't mean to sound defensive, I genuinely appreciate everyone's opinions as i am too close to it now to see straight!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I agree with the 24/7 turnout in a stabe herd and suggest that you look for somewhere with a large acreage and turn her away until she has forgotten about fence walking. Then I would prioritise turnout over a facilities and work her from grass.

 

[Leo Walker]

They are out there, they just take some finding! I used to get in the car and door knock anywhere that looked like it might have horses. That place might not be suitable, but they may well know somewhere that is! Now a days asking on local facebook groups usually turns something up

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Often farms are good for large acreage turnout.

 

[Elsbells]

Some horses just don't like being out for long. My mare doesn't go out until lunchtime and is asking to come back in again at 4 and I mean.....asking!!

She's supposed to be in box rest as she's damaged a tendon. Her vet though has said this strange routine of her choosing is as near to box rest as damm it which has been really useful and she's healing well.

Management is the key, finding what their bug bear, is or their preferences are and your halfway there. My girl will go out 24/7 in the summer, she has her own field close to the yard on the lane and houses backing onto it, so there's lots going on and she doesn't feel excluded so I guess she feels safe. Come the shorter days of Autumn she wants in, a haynet, a deep straw bed and work.

 

[maccachic]

Find it interesting the difference in opinion between our countries I hate keeping horses in and mine all live out 24/7 (movement is key to so many physiological factors of a horse removing the should really be a last resort in my opinion) these days they are pretty much naked as well. I've had 14 horses over 20 years and aside from my horse in Ireland have never stabled them unless at a show for a night.

The only vet call outs I have had was 1x pony got a leg thru a surcingle and 1x hack managed to crack his head (no idea how) the only other vet bills I have had had been gelding, removal of a caslick and tetanus shots. There has been the odd minor scrap or an abscess but I've never had a horse out for injury / medical reason for more than a few weeks.

Changes to what we are conditioned to take a bit of a toll on the brain but you get over it.

My horse is moving this weekend and will be paddocked alone with 1 other horse on the property and I feel guilty as about it but I am pregnant and its the best situation for both of us at the moment.

One thing I would advise checking / treating for is ulcers.

 

[luckyoldme]

mine was a fence walker when i first got him, he caused problems with other horses so was on his own. He was also cribbing in the field. I really do agree with others, he has been with a group of between three and four others over the last four years now and is totally chilled in his environment, out 24/7 with hay ad lib in the winter. He is living his dream!

 

[tillyd]

Some horses just don't like being out for long. My mare doesn't go out until lunchtime and is asking to come back in again at 4 and I mean.....asking!!

Come the shorter days of Autumn she wants in, a haynet, a deep straw bed and work.

Glad your mare is getting better. The problem is I can't reliably tell if it's going to be 1 hour or 3 hours before she kicks off to come in, so the only way for me to avoid incurring (understandable) wrath of yard owner, and not having a sweaty muddy horse is to literally stay on the yard and watch her while she's out. Which means no more than an hour out. I just can't ride 7 days a week, and she gets sharper and sharper, and will end up dumping me!

I think, much as it terrifies me, i will have to take the risk of turning her out 24/7 again, even though it ended catastrophically last time!

If she was with something old/retired/small, hopefully the risk is low. Lord, no idea how i find that, but will give it a go. If I could find a field to rent I did wonder about asking Blue Cross or something about loaning companions? Thanks everyone

 

[9tails]

Find it interesting the difference in opinion between our countries I hate keeping horses in and mine all live out 24/7 (movement is key to so many physiological factors of a horse removing the should really be a last resort in my opinion) these days they are pretty much naked as well. I've had 14 horses over 20 years and aside from my horse in Ireland have never stabled them unless at a show for a night.

Eh? Only one response on this thread has suggested the horse wants to be in. The other responses are to suggest 24/7 turnout. So "our countries" are of the same opinion.

 

[milliepops]

I think, much as it terrifies me, i will have to take the risk of turning her out 24/7 again, even though it ended catastrophically last time!

If she was with something old/retired/small, hopefully the risk is low. Lord, no idea how i find that, but will give it a go. If I could find a field to rent I did wonder about asking Blue Cross or something about loaning companions? Thanks everyone

Worth a go, although then you end up footing the costs for loads of extra horses. I'd also look for a nice grass livery. They tend to turn up via word of mouth, have you a horsey facebook group in your area?

FWIW I wouldn't consider a "stable herd" one where no other horses ever leave the field - more that it's a group of horses that isn't changing regularly. So over a period of time they establish their friendship groups & pecking order, and because new horses aren't being being moved into the group, the pecking order doesn't keep changing.

I know how you feel about the risk of injury - I've lost most of the last 2 years to stupid accidents and we are now back to a reasonable sized paddock and about to restart ridden work for the third time. But I couldn't keep her in 'just in case'. She's a horse and it's good for her to move about freely, with the company of the other horses. If we have another misshap, that will be very upsetting but it's a risk I have to accept

 

[9tails]

FWIW I wouldn't consider a "stable herd" one where no other horses ever leave the field - more that it's a group of horses that isn't changing regularly. So over a period of time they establish their friendship groups & pecking order, and because new horses aren't being being moved into the group, the pecking order doesn't keep changing.

What milliepops said above is true, all horses must get used to other horses leaving, even yours. Mine lives with two friends, one of which she's been with for over 6 years. Both leave to be ridden and then come back, sometimes they leave together. You can't expect people to own horses and never use them because your horse may freak.

Also, not all yards are totally anal about a muddy strip of field along the fenceline. Though some are.

 

[Elsbells]

Out of curiosity, what was she like before the accident? Was she chilled on mixed herd grazing and out 24/7?

 

[tillyd]

Out of curiosity, what was she like before the accident? Was she chilled on mixed herd grazing and out 24/7?

hello, no, she fence walked before the accident.
But she didn't do it for the first 3 and half years of her life, she lived out in a small mixed group as a youngster, and was very relaxed, and then as a 3 year old was treated like a 'normal' horse: I turned her out very early each morning and she was out all day, then in at night, and was absolutely fine. It started when she moved to a full livery yard after she was backed, and I wasn't doing her myself. I can only assume was a mixture of sort of 'institutionalised' into a routine, and anticipating that routine. Plus I think she used to come into loads of food/hay and she is very greedy. Anyway 2 years of that and it has become a very ingrained habit unfortunately.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

hello, no, she fence walked before the accident.
But she didn't do it for the first 3 and half years of her life, she lived out in a small mixed group as a youngster, and was very relaxed, and then as a 3 year old was treated like a 'normal' horse: I turned her out very early each morning and she was out all day, then in at night, and was absolutely fine. It started when she moved to a full livery yard after she was backed, and I wasn't doing her myself. I can only assume was a mixture of sort of 'institutionalised' into a routine, and anticipating that routine. Plus I think she used to come into loads of food/hay and she is very greedy. Anyway 2 years of that and it has become a very ingrained habit unfortunately.

Then you really do need to break the habit. There is absolutely no reason for horses to "want to come in", except that they are expecting to be fed. I would definitely find some grazing where she can live out all winter, with other horses which will be doing the same Either turn her away completely or bring her in at a regular time for a small feed and trun her back out immediately. If you were to sell her she would soon get used to a new routine.

Our horses usually come in to have a small feed while we put hay out at about 7 o'clock each evening. We were early yesterday and jokingly said we would have to be careful or they would start queuing at 5 today. Lo! and behold - they were standing peering in through the windows (they live at home) at about 5 pm becasue they heard me let the dogs out. They are having to wait though today, there was a good reason for the time-table change yesterday and we don't want that to become a habit. If you let the horse dictate the timetable, it will certainly push the boundaries, just as children will.

 

[honetpot]

My ponies used to live about 50ftfrom the back of the house in winter. They expect to be fed when I come out and cross the lawn what ever time that is whether its 6am or 9.30. I have also been on livery yards where every one fed their own horse and they would only bang and whinny when their owners appeared and not when you fed yours.
To start breaking the habit if you can not stand cold turkey I would give her a token feed and put her back out or come a different time of day spend a bit of time and token feed, then back out.

 

[SO1]

24/7 turnout is not necessarily more risky than out for part of the day as any horse turned out in company can get kicked at any point of the day.

If she associates stable with food then maybe make sure she has plenty of grass in the field and suitable company, when she starts field walking bring her in but don't feed her straight away and maybe work her instead and then try turning her back out again, so she starts to associate coming in with work and not related to feed and rest.

I have a pony who had the opposite problem in that he did not like being stabled, he has gone the other way and will try and bring himself in unless there is loads of grass and even then he is happy to come in, as he now associates stable with food and rest. What you need to do is somehow change your horses perception of the field so she finds it a place where she can eat and relax and rest. I wonder if a field shelter might help so she has a "stable" she can take herself into if she wants to.

 

[Yertis]

Have you tried the zig zag fence with electric tape and stakes inside the fence line? make big, 10 metre lines to break up the fence line, makes it all such hard work, if she learns that change the pattern again to U shapes and double backs.