Feral Pregnant Mare

[K8&Ted]

Hi all,

So my little BOGOFF mare still hasn't foaled. I kept her stabled for roughly 6 weeks following the snow/rain spell in March- April.
I figured it was time to turn her out instead of being cooked in her stable in this heat (South West England- its been scorching!).
She went out on Friday- instantly, she became standoffish. We were forehead stroking over a feed bucket, treating from the hand, etc. Now, she is darting away with her ears pinned.
That's not the problem.

Since Friday, I've been watching her on a camera to make sure she doesn't foal without supervision. Friday night, from 8pm onwards all she was doing was walking. And walking. And circling. And walking. And pacing. Up until 5am-ish.
I've had mares pace the night they foaled... so expected to see her go down and birth. But nothing.

Same thing tonight. She is pacing her paddock, barely grazing at all. She kicks her belly, I have spotted a few lip curls, but no lying down other than to roll.

So here's my question- how long have you known mares to pace before dropping the foal? Days? Weeks?
*I've only ever had the night before*

*She is feral- no, I cannot test her rump for jelly feel.
* Her bag has been filling and I've seen milk veins on Friday. No wax, just plugs.
* No chance of checking vulva.
*she didn't want her feed bucket which is odd for her as she waited by the stable door for it!

 

[Apercrumbie]

I have no expert advice but I believe that a poster on here (@Caol Ila I believe) has experience of a BOGOF with a feral or semi-feral mare and may be able to help!

 

[K8&Ted]

I have no expert advice but I believe that a poster on here (@Caol Ila I believe) has experience of a BOGOF with a feral or semi-feral mare and may be able to help!

Thank you

 

[Caol Ila]

Advice, I dunno, but I can tell you stories which may or may not help.

My horse wasn't actually feral; her breeder would go into the field to cuddle and interact with the youngstock. She just didn't halter break them or do any other type of training. She did a wee bit of halter training on my horse (2.5 years old at the time) right before she came to me, because she had to get on a lorry.

To make a long story short, barely-halter broke 2yo comes to me, start doing lots of groundwork, horse is actually pretty civilized and easy to train, then she starts regressing. Okay, she's two she's been through a lot of change. You don't worry too much about that. Then she starts looking pregnant. Oh, sh1t. I think the thread I start on HHO is called "should I hit the panic button?" Phone the vet, and vet says not only is this horse pregnant, she is due to foal this week. It's Friday. So yes, hit the panic button.

From Saturday onwards, we are on foal watch. At first camping next to her field, then YOs took over in person foal watch (she is in a field next to their house) and OH sets up a Reolink camera so we can watch her from home. She does a lot of pacing, like what OP describes. This goes on for several days. We can catch the horse and feel her up, though. She's tricky to catch now, but I manage it. She's dripping milk at this point. Another day or two pacing -- and now we're a bit worried and call vet -- and she finally pushes that foal out. We call vet back to say she's foaling.

Advice of vet and experienced YO is to watch and do nothing so long as everything looks copacetic. Interfering with barely-handled new mum could stress her out and cause her to reject foal. I sit in a camping chair away from the fence, watching and making sure baby stands and nurses within the time he is supposed to do those things. He does. I thank all the gods and goddesses.

In the subsequent days and then weeks, mum becomes the most feral, foal proud thing in the world. We cannot get a headcollar on her. We can approach her and stroke her, so long as no attempts at catching are involved, but the foal is very shy and darts to whichever side we are not. Teen Mum is never aggressive, though. She just runs away. Still not ideal. After many attempts and every horsemanship trick and technique in the book, we've still got uncatchable horses, three weeks later. YOs are not happy about this. They borrow some cattle gates from a neighbouring farmer and construct a mustang race, which is definitely one of those stories you don't tell HHO until two years after the fact. Don't try this at home, kids, but my YOs knew how to do it. I'm bricking it, of course, imagining every way it could go wrong, but I'm out of options. My way hasn't worked. Thankfully, my mare has a brain, and they are calmly herded into the race without panicking or doing anything stupid. Once in the race, we get headcollars on (it took faff and ingenuity from my friend who now owns the foal), and my mare remembers that 5000 years of domestication happened. From there, we lead them into a small drylot sort of pen, where they spend ten days. And revisit groundwork. Hoping she doesn't go feral again (and she mostly doesn't), they go back into a big field.

I am riding this horse now, and her son is a strapping but very civilised two-year old.

 

[TheMule]

Generally they are trying to correct the placement of the foal if they are agitated and restless. I would expect an imminent arrival, but until you can see 2 front feet sticking out, there’s not much else you can do to predict it in your situation

 

[Apercrumbie]

@Caol Ila I apologise for mischaracterising your situation but thank you for responding.

 

[twiggy2]

Does she have settled company?

 

[K8&Ted]

Generally they are trying to correct the placement of the foal if they are agitated and restless. I would expect an imminent arrival, but until you can see 2 front feet sticking out, there’s not much else you can do to predict it in your situation

I do feel really helpless... I bought her in Feb and I would have sworn THEN that she had a month max. Now, it's just a waiting game, but the anxiety she is displaying is so out of character for her...

 

[K8&Ted]

Does she have settled company?

She has 3 lovely mares over a secure fence to talk too. They mostly ignore her but sometimes interact over the water trough which is shared on the fence line. She hasn't been the type to make friends since she got here- always preferred to hide away in the corner than say hello to the other horses.

 

[K8&Ted]

Advice, I dunno, but I can tell you stories which may or may not help.

My horse wasn't actually feral; her breeder would go into the field to cuddle and interact with the youngstock. She just didn't halter break them or do any other type of training. She did a wee bit of halter training on my horse (2.5 years old at the time) right before she came to me, because she had to get on a lorry.

To make a long story short, barely-halter broke 2yo comes to me, start doing lots of groundwork, horse is actually pretty civilized and easy to train, then she starts regressing. Okay, she's two she's been through a lot of change. You don't worry too much about that. Then she starts looking pregnant. Oh, sh1t. I think the thread I start on HHO is called "should I hit the panic button?" Phone the vet, and vet says not only is this horse pregnant, she is due to foal this week. It's Friday. So yes, hit the panic button.

From Saturday onwards, we are on foal watch. At first camping next to her field, then YOs took over in person foal watch (she is in a field next to their house) and OH sets up a Reolink camera so we can watch her from home. She does a lot of pacing, like what OP describes. This goes on for several days. We can catch the horse and feel her up, though. She's tricky to catch now, but I manage it. She's dripping milk at this point. Another day or two pacing -- and now we're a bit worried and call vet -- and she finally pushes that foal out. We call vet back to say she's foaling.

Advice of vet and experienced YO is to watch and do nothing so long as everything looks copacetic. Interfering with barely-handled new mum could stress her out and cause her to reject foal. I sit in a camping chair away from the fence, watching and making sure baby stands and nurses within the time he is supposed to do those things. He does. I thank all the gods and goddesses.

In the subsequent days and then weeks, mum becomes the most feral, foal proud thing in the world. We cannot get a headcollar on her. We can approach her and stroke her, so long as no attempts at catching are involved, but the foal is very shy and darts to whichever side we are not. Teen Mum is never aggressive, though. She just runs away. Still not ideal. After many attempts and every horsemanship trick and technique in the book, we've still got uncatchable horses, three weeks later. YOs are not happy about this. They borrow some cattle gates from a neighbouring farmer and construct a mustang race, which is definitely one of those stories you don't tell HHO until two years after the fact. Don't try this at home, kids, but my YOs knew how to do it. I'm bricking it, of course, imagining every way it could go wrong, but I'm out of options. My way hasn't worked. Thankfully, my mare has a brain, and they are calmly herded into the race without panicking or doing anything stupid. Once in the race, we get headcollars on (it took faff and ingenuity from my friend who now owns the foal), and my mare remembers that 5000 years of domestication happened. From there, we lead them into a small drylot sort of pen, where they spend ten days. And revisit groundwork. Hoping she doesn't go feral again (and she mostly doesn't), they go back into a big field.

I am riding this horse now, and her son is a strapping but very civilised two-year old.

What an experience!!!!! I am glad things have worked out so well for you- fingers crossed mine goes just as well! I have contemplated buying a cattle press for once she has foaled to 'force' her to accept the contact. Pros and cons.

 

[twiggy2]

I wonder if solo turnout is meaning she is not relaxing

 

[K8&Ted]

I wonder if solo turnout is meaning she is not relaxing

I don't think so. She's not the type to want company. Always off grazing on her own, not pining by the fence for company. But it is something I'll consider and watch for
Thank you.

 

[nagblagger]

Can't offer advice but i keep hoping, when i see an update, there will be foal pics !

 

[K8&Ted]

I tried uploading pics when I created this thread, but the forum told me the file was too large

 

[Caol Ila]

What an experience!!!!! I am glad things have worked out so well for you- fingers crossed mine goes just as well! I have contemplated buying a cattle press for once she has foaled to 'force' her to accept the contact. Pros and cons.

I've seen videos of captured feral horses panicking in races. But you may need to worm, medicate, etc. your horse. If it's not handleable, the race can be useful. There are other people on this forum who have a lot of experience with actual ferals. I'm sure they'd have advice.

Keeping them in a small space where they could move around a bit but could not run very far from us made all the difference. The initial haltering inside the race would not have worked if we did not have a pen to hold them. However, they could not stay there for too long. They got a bit tricky to catch when they went back out but not nearly as wild as they had been. We devised a system. We brought a bucket of grain to the field, and mum would come to us and put her head in the bucket. We could drape a lead rope over her back, then slide it slowly towards her neck. Once you had it around her neck, she was caught and you could pop the headcollar on like any other horse. But if you went for her head or neck first, she'd spin and b*gger off. I can't remember how long we had to do that faff to catch her. A month? Maybe two? It felt like forever, but I don't think it actually took that long to get to a point where we could put the headcollar straight on. Foal was like halter breaking any other six week old foal.

Before having the foal, she'd been learning basic groundwork pretty easily (well, not picking up back feet, but everything else). Still, I'd only owned for three months, so with the raging hormones and being overwhelmed by being a new mom so young, she reverted to being feral.

 

[skint.spotty]

I don't think so. She's not the type to want company. Always off grazing on her own, not pining by the fence for company. But it is something I'll consider and watch for
Thank you.

Sorry to be abrupt, but she's a HORSE. She may not be the clingy sort, but they're inherently social animals - especially so at vulnerable times such as pregnancy/new baby. Mares can and do hold off on foaling if they don't feel conditions are 'right', and naturally they would never, ever give birth without others near by. Sensible, settled, friendly companions would also be good role models for the foal: after all they're basically born feral, and with only a feral mum to emulate baby might get the wrong idea about humanity.

 

[Caol Ila]

Sorry to be abrupt, but she's a HORSE. She may not be the clingy sort, but they're inherently social animals - especially so at vulnerable times such as pregnancy/new baby. Mares can and do hold off on foaling if they don't feel conditions are 'right', and naturally they would never, ever give birth without others near by. Sensible, settled, friendly companions would also be good role models for the foal: after all they're basically born feral, and with only a feral mum to emulate baby might get the wrong idea about humanity.

Agree. You don't want them foaling in the herd but they shouldn't be isolated. My mare had this chap, an old ex-racer, nearby, and he became a much loved uncle for the foal's first few weeks.



Sadly, ex-racer had to go onto a field with more grass, and after their time in the pen re-learning domestication, my two went into the livery mares' herd, which is definitely not something you admit on HHO until two years after the fact, because people will jump on you and tell you putting a mare and a young foal into a herd of random livery horses is a terrible idea. And it is! For the first two or so weeks of it, I also thought it was a terrible idea. One of the mares got so possessive over my horses that it took three people to catch Hermosa and baby. Two to get my two and one to hang onto this mare. The same process had to be repeated for releasing them into the field. Much fun was had. But everyone settled, and all the mares became the foal's aunties. A couple new liveries came to the herd, and the mares would surround the baby and make a point to the newbie that they. don't. f*ck. with him. And they didn't. He grew up learning excellent social skills, and it made weaning super easy because we just took mum out of the herd and left him with his aunties. He hardly noticed.

We did everything you're told not to do and got away with it. I definitely would follow foal-raising SOP if I planned to breed, but when you're landed with it, you work with what you got.

 

[paddy555]

I have contemplated buying a cattle press for once she has foaled to 'force' her to accept the contact. Pros and cons.

I have worked with ferals off Dartmoor. I really wish these older mares (in this case 15) were shot rather than be rehomed.

Can I suggest that if you are going to "force her" in a cattle press that you get some help in handling her from someone experienced with ferals. It really isn't fair to do this to a 15 yo mare off the common. This is a feral, you can't force her to accept contact with you. You have to work at her pace. They don't all become cuddly ponies.


As for foaling for heaven's sake leave her alone to get on with it. She will have had lots of foals. She will have worked it out by now.

Many have foaled by now. I presume she really is in foal?

 

[honetpot]

Sorry to be abrupt, but she's a HORSE. She may not be the clingy sort, but they're inherently social animals - especially so at vulnerable times such as pregnancy/new baby. Mares can and do hold off on foaling if they don't feel conditions are 'right', and naturally they would never, ever give birth without others near by. Sensible, settled, friendly companions would also be good role models for the foal: after all they're basically born feral, and with only a feral mum to emulate baby might get the wrong idea about humanity.

You beat me to it. To foal they need time to lie down, and most horses have a safe space or a guard to feel relaxed. I always put everything with a companion, because they learn so much from something that's used to being handled brought in, fed and then turned out, and have a safe space to run to. It's a bit late but I would try and pair her up with something. I have had a feral, and I would never keep it on its own, it needs a companion to eventually help join a new herd without issue.
The week before my mare foaled I stabled overnight and turned her out with another mare, got them into a routine, she foaled overnight and a couple of days later the mares went out together. I would worry that the foal will get no experience in living with others apart from the mare. Mares and even geldings will nanny foals, for their dams, so they learn social skills, and gives the mare a rest, the novelty soon wears off.

 

[paddy555]

You beat me to it. To foal they need time to lie down, and most horses have a safe space or a guard to feel relaxed. I always put everything with a companion, because they learn so much from something that's used to being handled brought in, fed and then turned out, and have a safe space to run to. It's a bit late but I would try and pair her up with something. I have had a feral, and I would never keep it on its own, it needs a companion to eventually help join a new herd without issue.

She hasn't been the type to make friends since she got here- always preferred to hide away in the corner than say hello to the other horses.

I think that sometimes people put their domestic horse training/values etc onto ferals and expect them to act the same.
You cannot put a very small feral mare in with other horses and always expect her to be overjoyed with your choice of company for her or even for her to agree she actually needs company.
She has come from a place where she has hundreds of acres to wander freely. The mares are not always in a tight group which they would be in a field. To foal on the moor she would have wandered away to somewhere quiet of her choosing. It wouldn't be the case that she needed others watching over her.

if you were to put a very small hill pony mare in with larger horses (even one) it would be frightening enough, you would be enclosing here, she would have no companionship of her own kind. It would be better to buy 2 feral mares so at least they have company with each other. If she is in foal she will consider she is very vulnerable.

It is very very different with a young feral and an established old mare.

It took 4 years after getting my old feral mare for my OH to be able to do anything more than stroke her over the door. Whilst she bonded quickly with me she didn't with men (or just about any other women either) I had worked with her for several months beforehand to get that bond. That was all done outside so she knew she didn't have to stay with me. You have to let them come to you.

This mare is displaying a lot of signs of stress. If she had been tamed in the stable for 6 weeks I would be expecting her to come back to a bucket of feed and for some affection. If she won't then I would suggest she has regarded the stable as her prison.

Even now after 12 years my ex feral mare has no interest in my horses. She is scared of them although they do nothing. She spends her time with her own little herd. If I was to put her in a field with even a couple of my horses she would totally hate it. If they have come from living with domestic horses when they were young that is very different. If I put her in a stable(she loves her stable) next to a stabled horse she wouldn't talk to it over the door and try to groom she would stand at the far side away from it.

 

[Orangehorse]

A bit off topic, sorry. That's interesting information regarding the feral ponies.

I had a rescued mare (she had already had her foal in previous home). I thought she would become friends with my horse but they certainly were not. I never saw them together, even after two or three years, she was frightened of him and he was mostly horrible to her, driving her away. He didn't like it if she wasn't around (and that was her job, to be a companion to him) but they never were friendly, she was just another equine.

 

[K8&Ted]

Sorry to be abrupt, but she's a HORSE. She may not be the clingy sort, but they're inherently social animals - especially so at vulnerable times such as pregnancy/new baby. Mares can and do hold off on foaling if they don't feel conditions are 'right', and naturally they would never, ever give birth without others near by. Sensible, settled, friendly companions would also be good role models for the foal: after all they're basically born feral, and with only a feral mum to emulate baby might get the wrong idea about humanity.

Whilst I appreciate your bluntness, she is not isolated. She has horses on two sides of her paddock who could reach over the fencing. They can groom each other over the water trough. She has been given the option to spend time with others earlier in the year and she walked away EVERY chance. Whatever this mares experiences, they fall far short of a happy, domestic, social herd.
I prefer to keep mixed herds rather than individual turnouts for this reason- HORSES ARE HERD ANIMALS. But she is clearly a unique, random mare who while she is in a vulnerable state, I'm electing to keep safe.

 

[K8&Ted]

A bit off topic, sorry. That's interesting information regarding the feral ponies.

I had a rescued mare (she had already had her foal in previous home). I thought she would become friends with my horse but they certainly were not. I never saw them together, even after two or three years, she was frightened of him and he was mostly horrible to her, driving her away. He didn't like it if she wasn't around (and that was her job, to be a companion to him) but they never were friendly, she was just another equine.

From what I understand of the herds on Dartmoor, the ponies often have a lot of distance between each of them to graze
But stay within calling distance should they need the back up of the herd. I don't see much in the way of 'socialising' being done, in the friendly way my domesticated horses do.

 

[K8&Ted]

I think that sometimes people put their domestic horse training/values etc onto ferals and expect them to act the same.
You cannot put a very small feral mare in with other horses and always expect her to be overjoyed with your choice of company for her or even for her to agree she actually needs company.
She has come from a place where she has hundreds of acres to wander freely. The mares are not always in a tight group which they would be in a field. To foal on the moor she would have wandered away to somewhere quiet of her choosing. It wouldn't be the case that she needed others watching over her.

if you were to put a very small hill pony mare in with larger horses (even one) it would be frightening enough, you would be enclosing here, she would have no companionship of her own kind. It would be better to buy 2 feral mares so at least they have company with each other. If she is in foal she will consider she is very vulnerable.

It is very very different with a young feral and an established old mare.

It took 4 years after getting my old feral mare for my OH to be able to do anything more than stroke her over the door. Whilst she bonded quickly with me she didn't with men (or just about any other women either) I had worked with her for several months beforehand to get that bond. That was all done outside so she knew she didn't have to stay with me. You have to let them come to you.

This mare is displaying a lot of signs of stress. If she had been tamed in the stable for 6 weeks I would be expecting her to come back to a bucket of feed and for some affection. If she won't then I would suggest she has regarded the stable as her prison.

Even now after 12 years my ex feral mare has no interest in my horses. She is scared of them although they do nothing. She spends her time with her own little herd. If I was to put her in a field with even a couple of my horses she would totally hate it. If they have come from living with domestic horses when they were young that is very different. If I put her in a stable(she loves her stable) next to a stabled horse she wouldn't talk to it over the door and try to groom she would stand at the far side away from it.

I think you've got the best handle on feral behaviour so far... I've dealt with 'problem' horses (behaviour/pain/etc),so the step to feral wasn't too big a leap lol
Flicker hides from all the other horses (mixture of sizes though- 16.3 to 10hh). Doesn't matter what size, she runs.

I have a pen area attached to her stable which I was using to give her some exercise while cleaning it out/bored. She would approach me cautiously, but touch my hand with her nose. I'd reward by walking away (pressure and release).
She was accepting treats and apples from my hand, as well as forehead scratches while I held her feed bucket.
Then I turned her out- with no way to know how far off she is, I felt in this heat it was safer outdoors (my stables become like mini ovens).

Today (so, 5 days after turning her loose) she accepted chaff from my hand. Small steps. But right now, watching on the camera, she is pacing away. Often in circles. I'm trying to understand feral mares labour patterns I guess and coming up short.

 

[Caol Ila]

My other horse, a gelding, is an actual ex-feral. He is very different from my domestic, unhandled (obviously not anymore) horse. I did not do the initial gentling/backing, but I know his previous owner, who did, pretty much let the three ferals she'd acquired decide when they were ready to interact with humans. They were chased into races/pens/trailers to get to hers, but once they were there, she let them do things in their own time.

He lives very happily in a herd of whatever livery horses, and 99% of the time, behaves like any other Highland if you don't watch too closely. But he's far more reactive and has some quirks. Not for the faint of heart.

Paddy55 knows her stuff. Her posts have offered me so much insight on feral horses and that has helped me out immeasurably for the past two years.

 

[paddy555]

Whilst I appreciate your bluntness, she is not isolated. She has horses on two sides of her paddock who could reach over the fencing. They can groom each other over the water trough. She has been given the option to spend time with others earlier in the year and she walked away EVERY chance. Whatever this mares experiences, they fall far short of a happy, domestic, social herd.
I prefer to keep mixed herds rather than individual turnouts for this reason- HORSES ARE HERD ANIMALS. But she is clearly a unique, random mare who while she is in a vulnerable state, I'm electing to keep safe.

I think you've got the best handle on feral behaviour so far... I've

dealt with 'problem' horses (behaviour/pain/etc),so the step to feral wasn't too big a leap lol
Flicker hides from all the other horses (mixture of sizes though- 16.3 to 10hh). Doesn't matter what size, she runs.

I have a pen area attached to her stable which I was using to give her some exercise while cleaning it out/bored. She would approach me cautiously, but touch my hand with her nose. I'd reward by walking away (pressure and release).
She was accepting treats and apples from my hand, as well as forehead scratches while I held her feed bucket.
Then I turned her out- with no way to know how far off she is, I felt in this heat it was safer outdoors (my stables become like mini ovens).

Today (so, 5 days after turning her loose) she accepted chaff from my hand. Small steps. But right now, watching on the camera, she is pacing away. Often in circles. I'm trying to understand feral mares labour patterns I guess and coming up short.

Our feral mare (well over 20 when she came off the common)was also in foal. She kept us guessing as to when it would be so she was in a field on her own. She waited until we had gone riding, went down onto the marsh which is pretty private from the other horses and by the time we got back the foal was scrambling to her feet. It wasn't obvious she was going to foal when we left with the horses, we were only out for an hour. She had us well organised.

I can't envisage your field situation but if she hides from the other horses and has horses on 2 sides of her has she got anywhere to go to to have the foal.

I don''t think she is unique in not wanting to be with the others or running and hiding from them. In fact if you described anything any different I would be surprised.

I see the constant pacing as stress and I'm not sure what facilities you have for her to get out of that situation in order to foal.

You say that she has horses on 2 sides who can look over the fencing. What would happen if you removed them well out of the way, stabled perhaps or a field far from her so that she is simply on her own. I would imagine the other horses are adding to her stress.

Do you have say a small paddock/area that is surrounded by hedges where she may be happier.